Republicans tax package

[dilbert firestorm]

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...ackage-1017368


I don't know what the hell Speaker Ryan was thinking. This should have been done before the election, not afterwards.

[themystic]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...ackage-1017368


I don't know what the hell Speaker Ryan was thinking. This should have been done before the election, not afterwards.

I think the Republicans are going to want to talk about anything except Russia. They have squandered a Republican House, Senate and presidency on mainly paying back political favors, tax cut for the rich and 2 ultra conservative SCOTUS. No Healthcare, no middle class tax cuts, no infrastructure and no wall for those who wanted it. Now they want to play nice for "the American people". That's BS. The Republican politicians are cock suckers. They fight with brass knuckles and the democrats fight with pillows. That is shifting a bit. Look at the shit they are pulling in Wisconsin, Michigan and North Carolina. You guys sure have changed. Speaker Ryan is a Fraud

[WTF]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...ackage-1017368


I don't know what the hell Speaker Ryan was thinking. This should have been done before the election, not afterwards.

You mean they are suprised the tax cut for the rich hurt them in the midterms as the aberage person saw through their bs

[Tiny]

If you just look at the marginal rates and ignore everything else, those couples making $19,050 to $77,400 per year got the best deal. Their marginal rates were lowered by 20%, from a 15% rate to a 12% rate. The losers were couples making $237,950 to $480,050, who got no or virtually no cut in their tax rates.

What about tax cuts on businesses? Well, this was not a tax cut for the rich. It was a tax cut for the privileged. The privileged are,

1. Small business owners who make less than $315,000 a year (married filing jointly)
2. Larger business owners who have large depreciation expenses and comparatively low income (e.g. owners of rental real estate, like Donald Trump)
3. Larger business owners who have large labor expenses and comparatively low income
4. Individuals who die before 2026 with estates worth between $5.6 million and $11.2 million
4. Owners of C corporations. Please note that this includes everybody who owns stocks directly or through mutual funds. The cut in the tax rate for C corporations actually wasn't controversial, although the size of the cut was. Rational people, including Barack Obama, wanted this to happen, as our 39% average rate was much higher than the rate in other countries. Obama proposed cutting the federal rate to 28%. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act ended up cutting it to 20%.

Then there were the losers, who include some high income residents of states that have income taxes, certain wealthy people with high dollar mortgages, highly leveraged and historically loss-making businesses, and others.

I fall into the category of "others" and am taking as big a hit from Trump and the Republicans as I took from Obama and the Democrats. I own part of a business that will see its tax rate increase from 30% to about 65%. Another business had its main expense deemed to not be deductible.

There's a lot of wisdom in getting rid of all the loopholes and reducing tax rates across the board, while still keeping a progressive tax system, like what Ronald Reagan did. This will not happen, because politicians and the privileged beneficiaries of loopholes will not let it. This is not a Republican or Democrat issue, although the few brave politicians who are trying to fix the system are predominantly Republicans. One of them was Senator Jeff Flake, who didn't run for re-election because he couldn't win the primary in the current hyper-partisan environment.

[themystic]

Originally Posted by Tiny

If you just look at the marginal rates and ignore everything else, those couples making $19,050 to $77,400 per year got the best deal. Their marginal rates were lowered by 20%, from a 15% rate to a 12% rate. The losers were couples making $237,950 to $480,050, who got no or virtually no cut in their tax rates.

What about tax cuts on businesses? Well, this was not a tax cut for the rich. It was a tax cut for the privileged. The privileged are,

1. Small business owners who make less than $315,000 a year (married filing jointly)
2. Larger business owners who have large depreciation expenses and comparatively low income (e.g. owners of rental real estate, like Donald Trump)
3. Larger business owners who have large labor expenses and comparatively low income
4. Individuals who die before 2026 with estates worth between $5.6 million and $11.2 million
4. Owners of C corporations. Please note that this includes everybody who owns stocks directly or through mutual funds. The cut in the tax rate for C corporations actually wasn't controversial, although the size of the cut was. Rational people, including Barack Obama, wanted this to happen, as our 39% average rate was much higher than the rate in other countries. Obama proposed cutting the federal rate to 28%. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act ended up cutting it to 20%.

Then there were the losers, who include some high income residents of states that have income taxes, certain wealthy people with high dollar mortgages, highly leveraged and historically loss-making businesses, and others.

I fall into the category of "others" and am taking as big a hit from Trump and the Republicans as I took from Obama and the Democrats. I own part of a business that will see its tax rate increase from 30% to about 65%. Another business had its main expense deemed to not be deductible.

There's a lot of wisdom in getting rid of all the loopholes and reducing tax rates across the board, while still keeping a progressive tax system. This will not happen, because politicians and the privileged beneficiaries of loopholes will not let it. This is not a Republican or Democrat issue, although the few brave politicians who are trying to fix the system are predominantly Republicans. One of them was Senator Jeff Flake, who didn't run for re-election because he couldn't win the primary in the current hyper-partisan environment.

Im sorry you took such a big hit Tiny. I guess I fall in the category of not privileged. Thats even worse than I thought. A tax cut for the privileged. Ouch

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Tiny

2. Larger business owners who have large depreciation expenses and comparatively low income (e.g. owners of rental real estate, like Donald Trump)

I found that strange that his supporters would not at least go...wtf Donald?

4. Individuals who die before 2026 with estates worth between $5.6 million and $11.2 million

Trump wanted this to go uncapped. Another Hey wtf Donald?

4. Owners of C corporations. Please note that this includes everybody who owns stocks directly or through mutual funds. The cut in the tax rate for C corporations actually wasn't controversial, although the size of the cut was. Rational people, including Barack Obama, wanted this to happen, as our 39% average rate was much higher than the rate in other countries. Obama proposed cutting the federal rate to 28%. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act ended up cutting it to 20%. Agreed , it was too high and went too low.

Then there were the losers, who include some high income residents of states that have income taxes, certain wealthy people with high dollar mortgages, highly leveraged and historically loss-making businesses, and others. They punished most states that did not vote Trump...



There's a lot of wisdom in getting rid of all the loopholes and reducing tax rates across the board, while still keeping a progressive tax system, like what Ronald Reagan did. I do not agree with that is what Reagan did....he brought down progressive tax rates and increased regressive taxes, though I agree we should try and get rid of loopholes. This will not happen, because politicians and the privileged beneficiaries of loopholes will not let it. Yep This is not a Republican or Democrat issue, although the few brave politicians who are trying to fix the system are predominantly Republicans. One of them was Senator Jeff Flake, who didn't run for re-election because he couldn't win the primary in the current hyper-partisan environment.

Jeff got Trump'd

The whole country is becoming more tribal with gerrymandering and the whole rural vs urban thing. Maybe it was always like that...

[Tiny]

Thanks Mystic. Yes, to be one of the privileged you need your own lobbyists and tax attorneys.

What I was trying to show but didn't say is that it's not so simple as saying the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act was a sop to the rich. In addition to the privileged, it was aimed at the middle class and small business. If you're the skeptical type, the purpose was to get political contributions from the special interests and votes from the middle class. The positive aspects are the cut in corporate rates (although WTF may be right, the 20% might have taken it a little too far) and the cuts for small businessmen making under $315,000 per year. I would add that it was good in that it cut taxes period, as rich countries with lower tax burdens do better, all else being equal. However, given that they're not going to also cut spending, so that the deficit will balloon, I'm not so sure.

Anyway, I don't think it's fair to condemn Republicans for this sort of thing. Democrats do the same thing, only sometimes the privileged special interests are different.

[themystic]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Thanks Mystic. Yes, to be one of the privileged you need your own lobbyists and tax attorneys.

What I was trying to show but didn't say is that it's not so simple as saying the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act was a sop to the rich. In addition to the privileged, it was aimed at the middle class and small business. If you're the skeptical type, the purpose was to get political contributions from the special interests and votes from the middle class. The positive aspects are the cut in corporate rates (although WTF may be right, the 20% might have taken it a little too far) and the cuts for small businessmen making under $315,000 per year. I would add that it was good in that it cut taxes period, as rich countries with lower tax burdens do better, all else being equal. However, given that they're not going to also cut spending, so that the deficit will balloon, I'm not so sure.

Anyway, I don't think it's fair to condemn Republicans for this sort of thing. Democrats do the same thing, only sometimes the privileged special interests are different.

I know the GOP prides itself for less taxes so what the fuck happen to balanced budget. That's all I head from Paul Ryan. Has that been abandoned? Why the need for whatever that "if you live until 2026" bullshit. If this was such a great deal for the country why didn't the GOP talk about it during the mid terms?

[Jackie S]

Tiny, I only got a one percent personal income tax rate reduction with the new tax plan, but our corporate taxes dropped considerably.

This means we will have more money to put back into the business.

As for the personal tax, (much of my income is regular W-2 income), at least I am not paying more. As a widower, I have no deductions. I short form my taxes.

The government also taxes 85 percent of my Social Security. I draw the maximum amount since I waited untill 70 to start taking it.

I can live with the tax rates we have now.

[themystic]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

Tiny, I only got a on percent personal income tax rate reduction with the new tax plan, but our corporate taxes dropped considerably.

This means we will have more money to put back into the business.

As for the personal tax, (much of my income is regular W-2 income), at least I am not paying more. As a widower, I have no deductions. I short form my taxes.

The government also taxes 85 percent of my Social Security. I draw the maximum amount since I waited untill 70 to start taking it.

I can live with the tax rates we have now.

I'm glad you have enough to live on Jackie, ( and buy hookers every now and then . That's what really matters to me the most. The personal well being of everyday Americans as well as the privileged . We just all want the best lives we can.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Anyway, I don't think it's fair to condemn Republicans for this sort of thing. Democrats do the same thing, only sometimes the privileged special interests are different.

I think we should condone both parties over this type of bs when deserved.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

Tiny, I only got a one percent personal income tax rate reduction with the new tax plan, but our corporate taxes dropped considerably.

This means we will have more money to put back into the business.

As for the personal tax, (much of my income is regular W-2 income), at least I am not paying more. As a widower, I have no deductions. I short form my taxes.

The government also taxes 85 percent of my Social Security. I draw the maximum amount since I waited untill 70 to start taking it.

I can live with the tax rates we have now.

I do not know what impact the new tax plan has on my personal income since much of our net income comes from Social Security and the tax withholding did not change with the tax reform. I'll know in February. I no longer will be able to itemize. I was paying my property taxes twice in a calendar year so I could itemize every other year. No longer works to my advantage.

I started taking Social Security at 66 and yes, 85% is taxed. I paid the maximum into SS for 43 of my 45 working years (2 years in the army). But we are getting a 2.8% COLA in 2019 which is nice.

As a non-business owner, I was content with the tax rate BEFORE the tax reform took place but I can understand why you like the new package.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

Tiny, I only got a one percent personal income tax rate reduction with the new tax plan, but our corporate taxes dropped considerably.

This means we will have more money to put back into the business.

Good point Jackie. Most of the net income earned by corporations is reinvested. The majority is used to grow their own businesses. Much of what's left over, the dividends, are reinvested by shareholders in other corporations and businesses.

While I didn't benefit from it, I believe the corporate tax cut will grow the economy and improve the overall well being of Americans. However WTF's and Mystic's criticisms about the effect of the tax cuts on the budget deficit are very valid. I'd like to see it reduced by the federal government becoming much more efficient and by cutting the defense budget, but I guess that's a different debate.