Spreadsheet for managing your hobby budget

[NolaScofflaw]

Oh I was well prepared for it! I've been lurking around here for a few months. The more vocal members of this community are a handful, lol.

[gentlemantoo]

Old-T you just cherish my posts, lol. I do not feel jaundiced but who knows? I know this when describing a man who pays for sex what words do typical people use? Words like Honest? No, words like Integrity, no, words like, moralistic, honorable, dignity, respectful, compassionate, loving, charitable? No none of those words fit do they?

Words that might fit would be selfish, immoral, con artist, lazy, pathetic, desperate, undesirable, mentally off, scummy, ugly, even evil might fit. Or sinful. Yeah, most of those fit when describing tricks or Johns.

Now when describing a prostitute what words do typical people use? See my point? I am not so deep in denial to not include myself in these descriptions, I have paid for sex.

So, when in a place where these words can certainly fit, is it a fun, happy, honest place or less attractive? You know the answer just cannot admit it mostly to your own self.

[NolaScofflaw]

There's nothing preventing an ethically-minded person from engaging in this hobby. We don't all fit neatly-defined stereotypes.

[gentlemantoo]

Ahhhh, the words of a person in denial! Love it. You are the exception to the rule or the stereotype aren't you? Yes we all are the exception. I certainly have integrity, Old-T T has to have utmost dignity, others have sin less andoralistic acts. Have you told your wife or if not married your mother or your daughter, that you pay women to lay with you? Bet not because it is an act that is shady and seedy. If we all are exceptions to the stereotype why does it exist? Is the whole population of humanity wrong and Nolascofflaw got it right? If it is so honorable or ethical to pay ladies for sex, use your first name as a handle. Why not? Nothing to hide you are ethical and all the good character words.

Wake up, you are as pathetic as society thinks you are just like me.

[Old-T]

If you were to believe G2, yes, we all do fit the stereotype. We are all identical. And experience shows he is not likely to change.

In many ways that mindset is exactly what is wrong with our society in many areas: a belief that whole groups of people are honest, while other whole groups are not. One profession or race or political party is kind, another is not. Once ethnicity are all hard working, others are not, etc.

Until we consider--and accept--that the distribution of ladies here--and clients--runs the spectrum of good people to bad ones (and most are somewhere in between) we will continue to live in a simplistic, stereotyping world. My experience says that simplistic world is far from true, G2 thinks it is an accurate description.

I have dealt with a larger fraction of politicians, lawyers, and car dealers who I have a poor opinion of their ethics than the ladies I have seen. "Have seen" is an important caveat because I cannot speak for those I do not know, and I do a lot of homework before meeting a lady.

[Old-T]

Originally Posted by gentlemantoo

Is the whole population of humanity wrong and Nolascofflaw got it right?

Actually, a large part of society does NOT think it is wrong. Polls vary as to the numbers. But those who do are zealotous about it and would make it their litmus test for voting right along with abortion. So it would be political suicide in many districts, so it remains illegal.

And the fact that someone's wife, mother, or employer believes every escort has horns and a black heart certainly does not make it so. I grant you the issue of legality, and I grant you that there are enough who would make life difficult for someone who admits participating--but neither of those address whether all who are here are thieves, antisocial, or evil people. You are seriously confusing morality and the need to coexist with a society where some have different views.

Admitting publicly that you were protecting Jews from concentration camps was a good way to be punished by the German society in 1940, but that did not make protecting Jews a reprehensible, immoral thing to do.

[NolaScofflaw]

Originally Posted by gentlemantoo

Ahhhh, the words of a person in denial! Love it. You are the exception to the rule or the stereotype aren't you? Yes we all are the exception. I certainly have integrity, Old-T T has to have utmost dignity, others have sin less andoralistic acts. Have you told your wife or if not married your mother or your daughter, that you pay women to lay with you? Bet not because it is an act that is shady and seedy. If we all are exceptions to the stereotype why does it exist? Is the whole population of humanity wrong and Nolascofflaw got it right? If it is so honorable or ethical to pay ladies for sex, use your first name as a handle. Why not? Nothing to hide you are ethical and all the good character words.

Wake up, you are as pathetic as society thinks you are just like me.

I don't have a wife or kids. I've told all of my friends about this hobby. I probably talk about it too much. I haven't told my family because they're pretty square and I don't see a point in dealing with that, but it wouldn't be the end of the world if they found out. The only reason I hide my identity on here is because I don't want to get arrested. I agree that there's a lot of shady shit going on in the hobby, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to approach this in an ethical manner. It's very easy in fact, just don't be a douche and you're good. Pay the lady, don't be a dick, leave when asked, tell your wife if you have one. Seems pretty benign to me. It's a much healthier outlet than hard drugs or religion.

[gentlemantoo]

I cannot believe you are comparing the acts of paying a prostitute for sex with that of a person saving lives during Holocaust!? I knew you were in denial but dude you might need help, serious mental help. A man exploiting a woman for sex through money is on the same plain as risking you and your families lives. One act is dignified, heroic, generous and filled with valor. The other is malicious, no honor, no risk to life or liberty.

That is very insulting to humanity, to Jewish people, to heros, and to people of valor. A trick is not a hero nor honorable in any sense of the word and for you to state means you have fallen very low into denial. Do you see your act of exploitation as heroic?? Life risking, honor and bravery?

What cause are you fighting for when you pay a woman? Please explain would love to hear this one.

I will respond to the rest of your comment later as I am too offended right now. Let me state I think all those that protect others are heros! Old-T, I do not think you are heroic when you pay prostitutes.

[gentlemantoo]

I see what you are saying Nola, but only word you mention is ethics, never mention morality, integrity, honor, dignity. And I never mentioned ethical, that was you. Every time you pay a lady for sex, you are doing so for selfish reasons not for her. She is desperate for money. Women do not view sex as men do, it is much more emotional and intimate for her. That is why she can be picky on who she allows to lay with her and men are not so picky. She has to ignore her inner instinct to not lay with a man she met 5 minutes ago, while it is easy for a man to do so. It is exploitive to her even when she is consensual. Every time she has sex for money she gets that much further away from normal emotional connections, normal intimacy, etc. While it is not as harmful to you, is is to her. Using a woman as an inhuman sex toy is not ethical. We can act ethical while we commit unethical acts, like the old saying "honor amongst thieves." But does not make thieves honorable men nor the act of stealing a good act.

[NolaScofflaw]

Originally Posted by gentlemantoo

I cannot believe you are comparing the acts of paying a prostitute for sex with that of a person saving lives during Holocaust!? I knew you were in denial but dude you might need help, serious mental help. A man exploiting a woman for sex through money is on the same plain as risking you and your families lives. One act is dignified, heroic, generous and filled with valor. The other is malicious, no honor, no risk to life or liberty.

That is very insulting to humanity, to Jewish people, to heros, and to people of valor. A trick is not a hero nor honorable in any sense of the word and for you to state means you have fallen very low into denial. Do you see your act of exploitation as heroic?? Life risking, honor and bravery?

What cause are you fighting for when you pay a woman? Please explain would love to hear this one.

I will respond to the rest of your comment later as I am too offended right now. Let me state I think all those that protect others are heros! Old-T, I do not think you are heroic when you pay prostitutes.

Only on ECCIE would a thread about a spreadsheet derail into an argument involving the holocaust, lol. His point is that law and ethics aren't bound to each other. In some cases, like in his example, breaking the law is the right thing to do. I doubt he was trying to suggest that hobbying is an act of compassion, but it's not unethical, either. Having gay sex back in the 50's would have probably been a slightly better comparison. It's not unethical, but at that time, it was against the law and society looked down on it. Hobbying is no different.

[NolaScofflaw]

Originally Posted by gentlemantoo

Every time you pay a lady for sex, you are doing so for selfish reasons not for her. She is desperate for money. Women do not view sex as men do, it is much more emotional and intimate for her. That is why she can be picky on who she allows to lay with her and men are not so picky. She has to ignore her inner instinct to not lay with a man she met 5 minutes ago, while it is easy for a man to do so. It is exploitive to her even when she is consensual. Every time she has sex for money she gets that much further away from normal emotional connections, normal intimacy, etc. While it is not as harmful to you, is is to her. Using a woman as an inhuman sex toy is not ethical. We can act ethical while we commit unethical acts, like the old saying "honor amongst thieves." But does not make thieves honorable men nor the act of stealing a good act.

That's a good point. However, they aren't all desperate for money and they don't all hate what they do. I suspect the most popular providers are the ones that either enjoy it or at worst just find it boring. You can't say all women view sex a certain way. Men typically view it one way and women typically view it another way, but people vary. Some women have the mindset necessary for this type of work. Most women probably don't, but some do. I suspect that's more of a cultural issue than a biological issue, but I might be wrong about that. I think it's usually clear when they hate it. Even for the ones that hate it, it's in some cases a better alternative than anything else they could do. If that's not the case, she can and should choose to look for something else. Some people hate their jobs, I mean REALLY hate them. Usually they feel like there isn't a better alternative that they can switch to. This is one possible alternative. If it weren't available, women would have even less options. If they really hate it that much, and I'm sure some of them do, they should chose the least horrible alternative, but they should have the right to decide if this is right for them. For some of them, it's a dream job. You can't know for sure if the provider you're seeing hates it, some people are really good at hiding what they're feeling, but I don't believe taking that risk makes you a dick. I think it's a relatively small risk if you're not picking up on any negative vibes.

[Old-T]

Sir, please go back and look at the analogy I used. I was in no way claiming that escorting and the holocost are comparable acts.

It was you who made the core of your argument "because you hide it from others, seeing escorts must be wrong".
I gave you a counterexample where hiding activites from others was clearly NOT wrong.

The logic of your argument is flawed.

[NolaScofflaw]

I hope you don't feel like we're ganging up on you, gentlemantoo. I'm enjoying the debate!

[burkalini]

Originally Posted by Old-T

Sadly you have stumbled upon an instantiation of the "No Good Turn Goes Unpunished" maxim!

While I agree with CK's comments, I also applaud you for being willing to share a tool that some may find useful (others may not, but the polite thing would be for them to ignore it and move on, but that is not how some folks here are built, as you can tell).



Clearly someone who has likely never saved for a long term goal. But then, most people do not have to save up for a trip to McDonalds.




It does seem that as soon as a person describes themselves as "Winky Whisperer" they develop certain curmudgeon traits, and also seem to lose sight of the wider picture. There is nothing illegal or immoral about budgeting, and the kind of spreadsheet described need not be for any illegal or immoral purpose so it is not at all clear why she would have issue with your post. But it is possible that people who work at McDonalds do not see the value in budgeting either.





What more can one say about taking advice from someone who is so jaundiced about EVERYONE in this community. Makes one wonder why anyone would voluntarily spend time with a group of people who are all liars, manipulators, and/or pathetic.

Because you mentioned my handle I can reply as someone that retired at 56 and planned well in my life. I can with all sincerity and with complete humility say you're full of shit.

[SA Angel]

As someone who is known to draw up detailed schedules to plan out vacation days, I find the OP’s original post endearing.