Universal Basic Income?

[old_hippie]

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/25/unive...794&yptr=yahoo

Interesting idea. My first reaction is I'm against this. If it means getting rid of welfare and social security, I would like to see the math.

[Chung Tran]

bad idea.. Social Security should stay, people paid in to receive that, it is not welfare.. there are already programs in place to lift household income (like the earned income tax credit).. I would rather see universality for health care, which is a major burden for lower-income earners, and changes in laws that aid wealthy people, inadvertently.

an example of the latter: I know a guy who lives in a 1.2 million dollar home, but he is "cash poor" with a now modest income.. he receives FREE medical care via Parkland.. everything paid.. and it is legal.. because the house is his homestead, it doesn't count for purposes of determining eligibility.

outrageous.

[OneStarLuck07]

While I don't like it, something like this is going to have happen. The march towards automation will displace many workers, potentially more than even the article suggests. I don't think the old argument that automating certain processes will create new jobs will fly this time since many of these new tasks will be automated as well.

Automation is coming fast and it really isn't being talked about. Should have started talking about it ten years ago.

How do you maintain social order and a stable economy when much of the labor force is sitting at home? How can businesses, after they automate everything they can, continue to make a profit when much of their potential customers lack money to purchase the goods they create?

I think it will eventually happen, with big business demanding it. And we will be further chained to the system.

[TexTushHog]

I think it's an interesting idea. Not sure it would work, but it I see no reason it wouldn't. And I think One Star's point us well taken. The share of income attributable to labor continues to decline, and I see that trend only increasing in the foreseeable future. I'm not sure that this is enough to deal with the issues that will cause, but the experience we gain from this will be helpful in whatever broader steps will have to be taken.

[FunInDFW]

Great idea, working well where it's currently implemented iirc. Doubt we'll ever see if here due to the current system and driving factor of those in charge: greed. At least some of the prominent things tech leaders are acknowledging it.

[old_hippie]

I've seen the job loss due to automation first hand. I used to work in a manufacturing environment where we had these machines made the products. 15 years ago each of these machines required a human operator. Today everything is computerized and automated so now there's one operator overseeing ten machines. We used to joke that eventually there will be no humans on the production floor, all the lights would be turned off and these machines would be humming away in the dark. Now it
s a real possibility.

I agree that this trend will continue and something needs to be done. I not convinced this is the answer. I do think it's an intriguing idea and an innovative response to not only the problems caused by job loss but also addressing the poverty issue in general.

I also agree that it has little chance of being implemented here. Things would have to get pretty bad and irrefutable evidence that this would work, based on the small scale experiments being done today, for the government to even consider it. I think it would be a political hot potato for both democrats and republicans.

[darkwader]

it's only a matter of time before it's implemented, imo. corporations have wayy too much to lose if current trend of automation displaces more and more workers leading to calamitous social unrest unlike anything we've seen in the past. one thing corporations do well is learn lessons from the past.

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by old_hippie

I've seen the job loss due to automation first hand. I used to work in a manufacturing environment where we had these machines made the products. 15 years ago each of these machines required a human operator. Today everything is computerized and automated so now there's one operator overseeing ten machines. We used to joke that eventually there will be no humans on the production floor, all the lights would be turned off and these machines would be humming away in the dark. Now it
s a real possibility.

I agree that this trend will continue and something needs to be done. I not convinced this is the answer. I do think it's an intriguing idea and an innovative response to not only the problems caused by job loss but also addressing the poverty issue in general.

I also agree that it has little chance of being implemented here. Things would have to get pretty bad and irrefutable evidence that this would work, based on the small scale experiments being done today, for the government to even consider it. I think it would be a political hot potato for both democrats and republicans.

What "needs to be done" is that folks who have traditionally gone into low education, semi-skilled jobs need to get serious about technical education and figure out that they can't rely on just intuition, being handy with tools, and having a strong back any more. And also learn that education, and retraining are something that has to occur on an on-going basis for their entire life. And to get rid of the antiquated notions about what is "men's work" and "women's work".

Manufacturing is going to employ a much reduced share of the economy as time goes on. And to the extent that manufacturing will employ significant numbers of people, they will have to be much more skilled than they are now. They will be low level programmers and computer operators, not machinists and muscle. They will be trouble shooters and computer technicians, not people who use hammers, wrenches, and lathes.

[OneStarLuck07]

It's not just blue collar jobs like truck drivers and factory workers at risk. Large groups of white collar jobs are now also at risk. Many legal, accounting, and customer service jobs could be eliminated due to improvements to software. They will have robots that can perform medical work much more efficiency than doctors.

The whole brick and mortar retail industry is crashing right now due to the internet, all these department stores are closing, leaving large abandoned shopping complexes around the country. Those jobs are not coming back. Fast food and retail are the first jobs for many young people, but due to automation and store closings, those first time jobs are going to be sparse.

I think it will happen because big business will want it to further to enrich themselves. Can't become richer if there is no one left to squeeze from. Sure, some people will still have jobs, but you will probably have one giant lower class where you live on the income have no power and little purpose other to consume that UBI, a few skilled workers with jobs for a modest middle class, and a teeny tiny wealthy elite that gets richer and richer.

I think it could be great overall, but I just don't trust anyone in power to actually make this happen. Quite pessimistic. I feel way worse for my kids.

[slowmover]

There was an article in the paper today that computers are beating stock brokers at stock picking.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/28/b...=top-news&_r=0