With Obama's help, native Hawaiians may establish their first unified government since the 1890s

[dilbert firestorm]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...nce-the-1890s/

they (natives) never asked us to be here. who can blame them.

[CuteOldGuy]

The the government can screw them as a group, like they do the Native Americans.

[Munchmasterman]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...nce-the-1890s/

they (natives) never asked us to be here. who can blame them.

Trying to give the states away?
Is dsk sleeping over there again?

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

Trying to give the states away?
Is dsk sleeping over there again?

no. Hawaii was never ours to begin with.

[Revenant]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

no. Hawaii was never ours to begin with.

They voted to enter the Union in 1959. That means they ARE ours.

[DSK]

Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

Trying to give the states away?
Is dsk sleeping over there again?

No, I would be happy to give away Hawaii. We stole it from the Natives, let's give it back. That's the right thing to do.

Oh yeah, two less Democratic Senators wouldn't hurt, either.

Unfortunately, they need to let us keep the USS Arizona memorial and Pearl Harbor-Hickam. Additionally, they could be nice to our sailors, but having been to Hawaii, I can tell you most Hawaiians are assholes, anyway.

[DSK]

Originally Posted by Revenant

They voted to enter the Union in 1959. That means they ARE ours.

If a state wants out, it is the gentlemanly thing to do to set them free.

You do believe in freedom, don't you?

[JD Barleycorn]

Like impeachment and constitutional amendments there should be a substantial super majority to affect secession. Funny, I thought leftists were against secession.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by Revenant

They voted to enter the Union in 1959. That means they ARE ours.

unlike the Philippines who had 3 options on the ballot, when the hawaiians voted, there was only two options, (statehood or remain a territory) a 3rd option was missing from the ballot and that was independence. they took the least bad option which was statehood.

Hawaii was stolen from american sugar plantation owners who illegally over threw a constitutional monarch and set up their own govt in 1890.

in 1896, Hawaii was illegally annexed to U.S. without the permission of the hawaiian natives.

the irony of this is that the power of the sugar owners who pushed for statehood were broken after Hawaii became a state.

Grover Cleveland who was president at the time could have restored the Hawaiian govt. He instead did nothing but investigate.

[Revenant]

Originally Posted by DSK

If a state wants out, it is the gentlemanly thing to do to set them free.

You do believe in freedom, don't you?

Yes I do.

But what makes you think fragmenting a country will lead to more freedom?

Folks typically want to secede in order to gain or retain power over others or engage in some type of abuse.

Would you want to live in a break-away NY or California? Do you think the progressives running the show in those places (or in Hawaii) would be protective of property rights and free speech? Hardly.

[Revenant]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

unlike the Philippines who had 3 options on the ballot, when the hawaiians voted, there was only two options, (statehood or remain a territory) a 3rd option was missing from the ballot and that was independence. they took the least bad option which was statehood.

Hawaii was stolen from american sugar plantation owners who illegally over threw a constitutional monarch and set up their own govt in 1890.

in 1896, Hawaii was illegally annexed to U.S. without the permission of the hawaiian natives.

the irony of this is that the power of the sugar owners who pushed for statehood were broken after Hawaii became a state.

Grover Cleveland who was president at the time could have restored the Hawaiian govt. He instead did nothing but investigate.

So whose fault was it that the 3rd option was not on the ballot? Maybe because it had very little support - even from the native Hawaiians?

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by Revenant

So whose fault was it that the 3rd option was not on the ballot? Maybe because it had very little support - even from the native Hawaiians?

it was the sugar plantation faction that pushed for the statehood ballot and they made sure not to include independence in that ballot when it was presented to mainland politicians.

there other factions besides the sugar plantation owners, the miltary. they wanted at all costs to keep hawaii, it was too valuable to lose as a navy base.

bear in mind, the hawaiian population was still in the minority and were still in recovery from the diseases that they were hard hit with 100 years ago from first contact during the 1950 referendum. they were outvoted by the non-native & military vote.

in 1890, the population was about 60,000. in 1790, it was something like 350,000. Today, they appeared to have largely recovered.

from what I've been able to ascertain, the pure hawaiian population is now close 200,000 and roughly 500,000 half-hawaiian. whites are now a minority.

[Guest123018-4]

I am all for giving back California to the Messcans.
You can give back Hawaii as well.
Puerto Rica needs to vote for independence and we can be done with them as well.
Texas can go back to being a nation and the messcans and Texans can vote to see if they want to become a part of Mexico once again.
We can offer to sell Louisiana back to the French as well.
May as well find some Indians and get rid of that cesspool that is New Yorkr City and all those fucked up people.
Dump Florida as well since it is about tro sink back into the ocean with all them damn sinkholes.

In the eyes of Obama, these actions would be ideal in the destruction of America.

I am sure there are more but that should get us started. Maybe in the end all that will remain of these United States will be the politicians in Washington DC but they will be so busy trying to remain in office they may not even be aware of what is gong on.

[Jackie S]

Just give them Casinos. That seems to work in the Lower 48.

[DSK]

Originally Posted by Revenant

Yes I do.

But what makes you think fragmenting a country will lead to more freedom?

Consolidation of power tends to limit individual freedom, that's why.

If I were a Hawaiian, I would say to you, "Let my people go!"