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Old 09-29-2016, 05:49 AM   #31
gnadfly
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Originally Posted by bambino View Post
The 9/11 bill will go into law. The House is expected to vote for the bill. Families of 9/11 can now sue Saudi Arabia. It was an overwhelming rebuke of Obama. Only Harry Reid voted with Obama in the Senate. What a surprise. Imagine the secrets that might get exposed.

http://amp.usatoday.com/story/91184976/
It's about time.

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Originally Posted by TheDaliLama View Post
I personally think it's a bad idea. It's going to open up a can of worms that I think we don't want.
There was legislation back during one of the Bush administrations that let the American people sue Saddam Hussien and the Iraqi govt. Several successfully sued but never collected. Can't remember the exact reason why but I believe the law was struck down on appeal.

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You have a problem with idiots? Then you don't own a mirror.
BOOOM!
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Old 09-29-2016, 07:28 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by i'va biggen View Post
With all the collateral damage in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria that should keep lawyers busy for years.
Is there a statue of limitations for such things?

Compare 9/11 to Dresden, among many, many others..... This is a very stupid can to open.
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Old 09-29-2016, 12:55 PM   #33
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Is there a statue of limitations for such things?

Compare 9/11 to Dresden, among many, many others..... This is a very stupid can to open.
The jurisdiction was just created when the law becomes effective so any statute would start running then .... there might be a "discovery" issue ... since the connecting documents were not disclosed until just recently. The Saudis (and any other country affected) would have to subject themselves to the court's jurisdiction to determine the issue.
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Old 09-29-2016, 06:38 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bambino View Post
The 9/11 bill will go into law. The House is expected to vote for the bill. Families of 9/11 can now sue Saudi Arabia. It was an overwhelming rebuke of Obama. Only Harry Reid voted with Obama in the Senate. What a surprise. Imagine the secrets that might get exposed.

http://amp.usatoday.com/story/91184976/
I actually believe Obama might be right on this one, only time will tell.
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Old 09-30-2016, 01:39 AM   #35
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Is there a statue of limitations for such things?

Compare 9/11 to Dresden, among many, many others..... This is a very stupid can to open.
Dresden was a disgrace. Unnecessary killing of civilians. A war crime of epic proportions.
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Old 09-30-2016, 03:17 PM   #36
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Word is that the law will be rewritten before it even takes effect. Seems the Republicans who passed it more realize it gives other countries the right to sue Americans read George Bush and US service members, read CIA operatives
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Old 09-30-2016, 03:46 PM   #37
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Word is that the law will be rewritten before it even takes effect. Seems the Republicans who passed it more realize it gives other countries the right to sue Americans read George Bush and US service members, read CIA operatives
... and Odumbo blowing up a Yemeni wedding party with drone missiles.

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Old 09-30-2016, 04:33 PM   #38
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Congress Now Blaming Obama For Its Embarrassing Override Of His Veto






These muthafuckers are insane. I realize we live under a constitution of blame the black man for everything but really? He vetoed the fucking bill, these dip-shits overrode it and now realize they FUCKED UP MAJORLY and so they blame him for it. This is why Republicans are an abject failure; always has been and always will be. Like I said they fucked up and when real irreparable harm comes to the US because of this they will have to own the OBAMA OVERRIDE VETO!!!!

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Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) - “That was a good example, it seems to me, of a failure to communicate early about the potential consequences of a piece of legislation,” McConnell told reporters before Congress got out of town until after the elections. “By the time everybody seemed to focus on some potential consequences of it, members had already basically taken a position.”

“I think it was just a ball dropped,” McConnell added. “I wish the president — I hate to blame everything on him, and I don’t — but it would have been helpful had he, uh, we had a discussion about this much earlier than last week.”
^ so this dipshit admits they took a vote to override without knowing what or why in the fuck why?

This here is hilarious:

Quote:
Senate Republican Whip John Cornyn (R-Texas), a sponsor of bill, was harsher on Wednesday, while his colleagues were working up their letter expressing doubts.
“What’s so remarkable to me is the detachment of this White House from anything to do with the legislative process,” Cornyn told reporters. “They were basically missing in action during this whole process.”

However earlier this year this is what Cornyn said about Obama's efforts to thwart the bill from passing:

Cornyn in particular was angry about it. He said so in April, on the Senate floor, just before Obama went to meet with the Saudis.
Quote:
“Unfortunately, the administration has worked to undercut progress of this legislation at every turn,” Cornyn said. “It appears that the Obama administration is pulling out all the stops to keep this bill from moving forward before the president’s visit to Riyadh,” he said. “I wish the President and his aides would spend as much time and energy working with us in a bipartisan manner as they have working against us trying to prevent victims of terrorism from receiving the justice they deserve.”

They are scrambling like eggs to find out how to pin this on Obama.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...8595?section=&
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Old 09-30-2016, 05:30 PM   #39
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Don't worry, IB will explain it all to you!
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Old 09-30-2016, 06:04 PM   #40
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Don't worry, IB will explain it all to you!
Get drunk on your cheap wine and go play in the street on a dark, stormy night, Old-THUMPER, chase some tractor trailer trucks while you're out there.

Your remark about Dresden was off-base, but the reason I hadn't posted in this thread is that I also think this legislation sets a dangerous precedent. The U.S. killed a couple of thousand French citizens during the D-Day invasion of France. There are other incidents to consider, such as No Gun Ri, My Lai and the destruction of several wedding parties in recent years.

Dresden, as a major railway hub for military equipment, supplies and personnel headed to the Eastern Front, was a legitimate and major miltary target, Old-THUMPER, and the U.S. did not start that war, and the U.S. wasn't the first to target civilians: Karma is a bitch.
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Old 09-30-2016, 06:15 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by I B Hankering View Post
Get drunk on your cheap wine and go play in the street on a dark, stormy night, Old-THUMPER, chase some tractor trailer trucks while you're out there.

Your remark about Dresden was off-base, but the reason I hadn't posted in this thread is that I also think this legislation sets a dangerous precedent. The U.S. killed a couple of thousand French citizens during the D-Day invasion of France. There are other incidents to consider, such as No Gun Ri, My Lai and the destruction of several wedding parties in recent years.

Dresden, as a major railway hub for military equipment, supplies and personnel headed to the Eastern Front, was a legitimate and major miltary target, Old-THUMPER, and the U.S. did not start that war, and the U.S. wasn't the first to target civilians: Karma is a bitch.
Your examples are other legitimate cases as well. But the argument of "legitimate military target" may not be sufficient to keep something like Dresden out of the courts once the precedent is set.

Certainly the Normandy invasion itself was a "legitimate military target" as well.

I am not at all advocating such things, but just as you are I am very concerned about cracking open the door. Issues of "legitimate" and "proportional" are always subjective. And I don't think Karma would be seen as an extenuating circumstance.
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Old 09-30-2016, 07:37 PM   #42
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Default Yes, I was right about a previously similar law being nullified...

From 2005

http://articles.latimes.com/2005/apr...on/na-scotus26

WASHINGTON — Seventeen members of the U.S. military who were taken prisoner and tortured by the Iraqis during the 1991 Persian Gulf War lost their legal battle to hold Iraq liable for their detention and injuries as the Supreme Court on Monday turned away their final appeal.

The justices heeded the advice of the Bush administration and let stand an appeals court ruling that threw out a nearly $1-billion verdict won by the former POWs two years ago.

The court's refusal to hear the case spares the administration from having to go before the justices to argue against Americans who had been tortured.

The former POWs sued Iraq and the regime of Saddam Hussein under the terms of a 1996 anti-terrorism law that opened the courthouse door to claims from Americans injured or tortured at the hands of "state sponsors of terror."



Their story was little known, since most Americans perceived the Persian Gulf War as a TV spectacular in which U.S. forces pounded and destroyed Iraq's army in a few weeks.

But during their time in captivity, the plaintiffs said, they were beaten and had their bones broken by their Iraqi captors. Several of the men nearly starved in the weeks they were held in cold, filthy cells, including at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad.

But by the time the men won their claim in court -- and were to be paid out of the Hussein regime assets that had been frozen as punishment for the invasion of Kuwait -- the U.S. had invaded Iraq and toppled the government. To the former POWs' surprise, the Bush administration went to court seeking to nullify the award. The government argued that Iraq, under American occupation, was no longer a state sponsor of terrorism.

Moreover, President Bush canceled the sanctions against Iraq imposed at the end of the Gulf War and moved to shield the $1.7 billion in frozen assets that, the administration said, was needed to rebuild the nation.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia agreed with the administration last year and ruled that "weighty foreign policy interests" called for dismissing the lawsuit.

In their appeal to the Supreme Court, the plaintiffs argued that U.S. law and the Geneva Convention forbade the torture of POWs and prohibited nations from absolving perpetrators of torture of their legal liability.

"Our country does not have a good record for holding nations accountable for how they have treated American captives," lead plaintiff Clifford Acree, a Marine lieutenant colonel when he was captured, said recently.

Shot down over Iraq by a surface-to-air missile on Jan. 17, 1991, the first day of the war, Acree was injured when he ejected from his jet; after his capture, he was blindfolded and beaten by the Iraqis until he lost consciousness. He was held captive for 47 days.

In a recent news briefing, Acree argued that if the lawsuit were dismissed, "what message do we send for the future?"

The former POWs had the support of a bipartisan group of lawmakers, including Sens. George Allen (R-Va.), Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) and Patty Murray (D-Wash.), who filed a friend-of-the-court brief urging the justices to restore the verdict.
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Old 10-01-2016, 01:18 AM   #43
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Word is that the law will be rewritten before it even takes effect. Seems the Republicans who passed it more realize it gives other countries the right to sue Americans read George Bush and US service members, read CIA operatives
They can't do that. It would be unconstitutional. Wait, I forgot. It's Obama. The Constitution doesn't matter.
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Old 10-01-2016, 07:39 AM   #44
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They can't do that. It would be unconstitutional. Wait, I forgot. It's Obama. The Constitution doesn't matter.
Why would it be constitutional for US citizens to sue a foreign country in a US court, but not constitutional for foreign citizens to sue the US?

This one is all on Congress if it goes bad.
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Old 10-01-2016, 09:29 AM   #45
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Congress had to try to do something between vacations.
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