Popre Francis - islam is not terrorism

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by jma9

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home).Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward "

This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes.

I kind of figured that "peaceful" muslims wouldn't dare show their faces to their brethren. this probably a very small group, prolly 1% of the muslim world.

[Luke_Wyatt]

Originally Posted by jma9

They all advocate killing infidels, as taught in the Quran.

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Muslims are taught as young children to not trust or make friends with non-believers.

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home).Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward "

This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes.

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..."

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"

Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."

Religion that teaches peace and love?

Well let's play devil's advocate this is one of the reasons why I left Christianity: Here are 10 very violent verses from the Bible that includes killing innocent women, babies and even unborn babies.


10. 2 Kings 2:23-24

He [Elisha] went up from there to Bethel; and while he was going up on the way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying, “Go away, baldhead! Go away, baldhead!” When he turned around and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two she-bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. (NRSV)



9. Exodus 32:27-29

Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.' "The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died. Then Moses said, "You have been set apart to the LORD today, for you were against your own sons and brothers, and he has blessed you this day."(NIV)



8. 2 Chronicles 25:12

The sons of Judah also captured 10,000 alive and brought them to the top of the cliff and threw them down from the top of the cliff, so that they were all dashed to pieces.(NASB)



7. Judges 12:5-6

Then the Gileadites took the fords of the Jordan against the Ephraimites. Whenever one of the fugitives of Ephraim said, “Let me go over,” the men of Gilead would say to him, “Are you an Ephraimite?” When he said, “No” they said to him, “Then say Shibboleth” and he said, “Sibboleth,” for he could not pronounce it right. Then they seized him and killed him at the fords of the Jordan. Forty-two thousand of the Ephraimites fell at that time. (NRSV)



6. 1 Kings 20:28-30

Then a man of God came and spoke to the king of Israel, and said, “Thus says the LORD: 'Because the Syrians have said, “The LORD is God of the hills, but He is not God of the valleys,” therefore I will deliver all this great multitude into your hand, and you shall know that I am the LORD.’” And they encamped opposite each other for seven days.

So it was that on the seventh day the battle was joined; and the children of Israel killed one hundred thousand foot soldiers of the Syrians in one day. But the rest fled to Aphek, into the city; then a wall fell on twenty-seven thousand of the men who were left. (NKJV)



5. Joshua 8:24-26

When the Israelite army finished chasing and killing all the men of Ai in the open fields, they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire population of Ai, including men and women, was wiped out that day—12,000 in all. For Joshua kept holding out his spear until everyone who had lived in Ai was completely destroyed. (NLT)



4. Deuteronomy 2:32-34

Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, unto battle at Jahaz. And Jehovah our God delivered him up before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed every inhabited city, with the women and the little ones; we left none remaining. (ASV)



3. Deuteronomy 3:3-6

So the LORD our God delivered Og also, king of Bashan, with all his people into our hand, and we smote them until no survivor was left. We captured all his cities at that time; there was not a city which we did not take from them: sixty cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan. All these were cities fortified with high walls, gates and bars, besides a great many unwalled towns. We utterly destroyed them, as we did to Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women and children of every city. (NASB)



2. 1 Samuel 15:3,8

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' " … He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword.(NIV)



1. Hosea 13:16

Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open. (NRSV)

There you have 10 verses from the Bible that doesn't make Christianity look to peaceful. Also,let me clarify I am not a muslim, but the verses you quoted from the Quran are taken out of context it applies to Islam when they are at war.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Luke_Wyatt

...this is one of the reasons why I left Christianity: .....

Is that so you can tell the Islamic terrorists you're not a Christian?

[Jackie S]

Originally Posted by Luke_Wyatt

Well let's play devil's advocate this is one of the reasons why I left Christianity: Here are 10 very violent verses from the Bible that includes killing innocent women, babies and even unborn babies.


10. 2 Kings 2:23-24

He [Elisha] went up from there to Bethel; and while he was going up on the way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying, “Go away, baldhead! Go away, baldhead!” When he turned around and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two she-bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. (NRSV)



9. Exodus 32:27-29

Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.' "The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died. Then Moses said, "You have been set apart to the LORD today, for you were against your own sons and brothers, and he has blessed you this day."(NIV)



8. 2 Chronicles 25:12

The sons of Judah also captured 10,000 alive and brought them to the top of the cliff and threw them down from the top of the cliff, so that they were all dashed to pieces.(NASB)



7. Judges 12:5-6

Then the Gileadites took the fords of the Jordan against the Ephraimites. Whenever one of the fugitives of Ephraim said, “Let me go over,” the men of Gilead would say to him, “Are you an Ephraimite?” When he said, “No” they said to him, “Then say Shibboleth” and he said, “Sibboleth,” for he could not pronounce it right. Then they seized him and killed him at the fords of the Jordan. Forty-two thousand of the Ephraimites fell at that time. (NRSV)



6. 1 Kings 20:28-30

Then a man of God came and spoke to the king of Israel, and said, “Thus says the LORD: 'Because the Syrians have said, “The LORD is God of the hills, but He is not God of the valleys,” therefore I will deliver all this great multitude into your hand, and you shall know that I am the LORD.’” And they encamped opposite each other for seven days.

So it was that on the seventh day the battle was joined; and the children of Israel killed one hundred thousand foot soldiers of the Syrians in one day. But the rest fled to Aphek, into the city; then a wall fell on twenty-seven thousand of the men who were left. (NKJV)



5. Joshua 8:24-26

When the Israelite army finished chasing and killing all the men of Ai in the open fields, they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire population of Ai, including men and women, was wiped out that day—12,000 in all. For Joshua kept holding out his spear until everyone who had lived in Ai was completely destroyed. (NLT)



4. Deuteronomy 2:32-34

Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, unto battle at Jahaz. And Jehovah our God delivered him up before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed every inhabited city, with the women and the little ones; we left none remaining. (ASV)



3. Deuteronomy 3:3-6

So the LORD our God delivered Og also, king of Bashan, with all his people into our hand, and we smote them until no survivor was left. We captured all his cities at that time; there was not a city which we did not take from them: sixty cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan. All these were cities fortified with high walls, gates and bars, besides a great many unwalled towns. We utterly destroyed them, as we did to Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women and children of every city. (NASB)



2. 1 Samuel 15:3,8

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' " … He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword.(NIV)



1. Hosea 13:16

Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open. (NRSV)

R following thThere you have 10 verses from the Bible that doesn't make Christianity look to peaceful. Also,let me clarify I am not a muslim, but the verses you quoted from the Quran are taken out of context it applies to Islam when they are at war.

True, The Bible, (Old Testament), is ripe with repressive behavior. One good example, The Battle of Jerihco. In our modern world, Joshua would be tried as a war criminal.

But that was then. What we are concerned with now is the vast number of Muslims who actually believe all of that shit handed down by their "Prophet".

It makes no difference what you believe, or I believe. These morons actually believe this tripe and are willing to kill in the name of it.

[jbravo_123]

Fundamentally, any religion can be used to do terrible acts in the name of that religion.

Look at all the things the Catholic church has done over time and even continues to do now (systemic coverups of child abuse, etc.).

In Africa, the Lord's Resistance Army is a Christian terrorist group that often uses child soldiers to carry out their actions.

Here in the US, we have the KKK, Aryan Brotherhood, various Christian organizations that bomb clinics, etc.

The vast majority of Muslims, like the vast majority of Christians, are just regular people who want to live out their lives in peace. Judging an entire group by a small percentage of bad actors is the same as saying all cops are corrupt because of a few bad ones.

[jma9]

Originally Posted by Chateau Becot

I have to ask though....just reading the ones you posted....how has a religion (that teaches hatred, violence and the total destruction of others) endured the centuries? I would think a generation would eventually come along and reject a language such as this, ie: common sense and sane thinking would prevail. I suppose these people have lived in some kind of a vacuum, with no clue how others live and co-exist in the world.

Sharia Law does not allow for common sense and sane thinking.

Originally Posted by Chateau Becot

Its naive (on my part) to think that way, I suppose. Two billion (and growing) in numbers....it's not a religion that's going away, to be certain. And all it takes is .01% of that group to create real problems for others.

Its more than .01% of Muslims committing the acts, what's really scary is almost 100% support their actions. Because...if they do not support violent acts against non-believers...THEY ARE NOT TRULY MUSLIM!

[jma9]

Originally Posted by Luke_Wyatt

There you have 10 verses from the Bible that doesn't make Christianity look to peaceful. Also,let me clarify I am not a muslim, but the verses you quoted from the Quran are taken out of context it applies to Islam when they are at war.

They are at war stupid!

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Luke_Wyatt

Well let's play devil's advocate this is one of the reasons why I left Christianity: Here are 10 very violent verses from the Bible that includes killing innocent women, babies and even unborn babies.

Re-read what Dilbert posted, Lubed Wide-ass. The Bible documented past events, and in the New Testament, it's not advocating violence.

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

the bible & torah, the passages of violence only occurred at that time & place. Its past tense. it was not a command to commit acts of violence on a daily basis. the koran on the other hand do have commands to find & hunt down unbelievers on a present & future tense.

this is where the difference between the three books come in.

Originally Posted by jbravo_123

Fundamentally, any religion can be used to do terrible acts in the name of that religion.

Look at all the things the Catholic church has done over time and even continues to do now (systemic coverups of child abuse, etc.).

In Africa, the Lord's Resistance Army is a Christian terrorist group that often uses child soldiers to carry out their actions.

Here in the US, we have the KKK, Aryan Brotherhood, various Christian organizations that bomb clinics, etc.

The vast majority of Muslims, like the vast majority of Christians, are just regular people who want to live out their lives in peace. Judging an entire group by a small percentage of bad actors is the same as saying all cops are corrupt because of a few bad ones.

You're regurgitating the lib-retard mantra. There's more child abuse in the secular realm of public schools in this country than there is in the Catholic Church. The KKK was established for political reasons to deal with the political dictates of the Radical Reconstruction era; hence, it was not founded to advance any religious cause. And just what are the religious tenets behind the Aryan Brotherhood? Because other than being a racist, prison gang bent on controlling the commerce of certain illicit trade goods, I haven't heard. Conversely, ISIL's central premise is to convert the world to Islam via jihad.

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by Luke_Wyatt

Well let's play devil's advocate this is one of the reasons why I left Christianity: Here are 10 very violent verses from the Bible that includes killing innocent women, babies and even unborn babies.


10. 2 Kings 2:23-24

He [Elisha] went up from there to Bethel; and while he was going up on the way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying, “Go away, baldhead! Go away, baldhead!” When he turned around and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two she-bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. (NRSV)



9. Exodus 32:27-29

Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.' "The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died. Then Moses said, "You have been set apart to the LORD today, for you were against your own sons and brothers, and he has blessed you this day."(NIV)



8. 2 Chronicles 25:12

The sons of Judah also captured 10,000 alive and brought them to the top of the cliff and threw them down from the top of the cliff, so that they were all dashed to pieces.(NASB)



7. Judges 12:5-6

Then the Gileadites took the fords of the Jordan against the Ephraimites. Whenever one of the fugitives of Ephraim said, “Let me go over,” the men of Gilead would say to him, “Are you an Ephraimite?” When he said, “No” they said to him, “Then say Shibboleth” and he said, “Sibboleth,” for he could not pronounce it right. Then they seized him and killed him at the fords of the Jordan. Forty-two thousand of the Ephraimites fell at that time. (NRSV)



6. 1 Kings 20:28-30

Then a man of God came and spoke to the king of Israel, and said, “Thus says the LORD: 'Because the Syrians have said, “The LORD is God of the hills, but He is not God of the valleys,” therefore I will deliver all this great multitude into your hand, and you shall know that I am the LORD.’” And they encamped opposite each other for seven days.

So it was that on the seventh day the battle was joined; and the children of Israel killed one hundred thousand foot soldiers of the Syrians in one day. But the rest fled to Aphek, into the city; then a wall fell on twenty-seven thousand of the men who were left. (NKJV)



5. Joshua 8:24-26

When the Israelite army finished chasing and killing all the men of Ai in the open fields, they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire population of Ai, including men and women, was wiped out that day—12,000 in all. For Joshua kept holding out his spear until everyone who had lived in Ai was completely destroyed. (NLT)



4. Deuteronomy 2:32-34

Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, unto battle at Jahaz. And Jehovah our God delivered him up before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed every inhabited city, with the women and the little ones; we left none remaining. (ASV)



3. Deuteronomy 3:3-6

So the LORD our God delivered Og also, king of Bashan, with all his people into our hand, and we smote them until no survivor was left. We captured all his cities at that time; there was not a city which we did not take from them: sixty cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan. All these were cities fortified with high walls, gates and bars, besides a great many unwalled towns. We utterly destroyed them, as we did to Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women and children of every city. (NASB)



2. 1 Samuel 15:3,8

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' " … He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword.(NIV)



1. Hosea 13:16

Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open. (NRSV)

There you have 10 verses from the Bible that doesn't make Christianity look to peaceful. Also,let me clarify I am not a muslim, but the verses you quoted from the Quran are taken out of context it applies to Islam when they are at war.

you say these verses are the reason to you left Christianity. shows a lack of understanding

Christianity does not look to these verses at all as any sort of instruction. Never has.

you can leave Christianity for any reason or no reason, maybe its other reasons and these verses seem convenient to use instead of the real reason

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

you say these verses are the reason to you left Christianity. shows a lack of understanding

Christianity does not look to these verses at all as any sort of instruction. Never has.

you can leave Christianity for any reason or no reason, maybe its other reasons and these verses seem convenient to use instead of the real reason

Plus, those are Old Testament verses, and Christian tenets are better represented by the verses in the New Testament.

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Plus, those are Old Testament verses, and Christian tenets are better represented by the verses in the New Testament.

I was in the midst of correcting "verses" when you quoted me

you always need to give me 15 minutes minimum to fix my posts

those verses are seen as specific ones for that ancient violent time to keep the Jews as a peculiar people with the knowledge of the one true God until Jesus came, not as any sort of instruction, unlike the quranic instructions

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

I was in the midst of correcting "verses" when you quoted me

you always need to give me 15 minutes minimum to fix my posts

those verses are seen as specific ones for that time to keep the Jews with the knowledge of the one true God until Jesus came, not as any sort of instruction, unlike the quranic instructions

Those typos are corrected.

[Luke_Wyatt]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Plus, those are Old Testament verses, and Christian tenets are better represented by the verses in the New Testament.

Last time I checked Christianity ecompasses both the OLD and New Testament am I right or wrong? Remember the Old Testament contains the Ten Commandments are they not a focal point of Christianity? Or since it's the Old Testament aka the Torah- should we now say Judaism is a violent religion? You can't have it both ways I B.

[Luke_Wyatt]

Originally Posted by jma9

They are at war stupid!

Bingo we have a winner!!! And look at the verses in the Quran- those verses were instructions when they were at war.

[DSK]

Originally Posted by Luke_Wyatt

Last time I checked Christianity ecompasses both the OLD and New Testament am I right or wrong? Remember the Old Testament contains the Ten Commandments are they not a focal point of Christianity? Or since it's the Old Testament aka the Torah- should we now say Judaism is a violent religion? You can't have it both ways I B.

I can only assume you have heard of the New Covenant?

If you have, that explains why the Old Testament, while the true record, is not advocating violence for today.

neither is the New Testament.

Muslims will tell you the Quran is unchanging, as is Islam.

Just hope they don't toss you off a building like they do to other gay people.