DavePHX

[Simply Spice]

I can't even come on to Arizona thread because it's nothing but his posts. I get that some may find it useful. But give him his own super thread. He has taken all over the Arizona section and it makes it so much less appealing. I have to scroll through five of his posts just to find an actual person posting.


Can we please give him his own place to post and he can bump with new stuff??

[GiveMeLibertyOrGiveMeHead]

Originally Posted by SpiceInTucson

I can't even come on to Arizona thread because it's nothing but his posts. I get that some may find it useful. But give him his own super thread. He has taken all over the Arizona section and it makes it so much less appealing. I have to scroll through five of his posts just to find an actual person posting.


Can we please give him his own place to post and he can bump with new stuff??

Everyone has the right to post what they chose is valid and as you said yourself, some people do find his posts useful. I highly disagree with separating DavePHX's posts just because you do not like them. I do believe that the lack of posts here is the real problem. In a lot of other states the Coed Discussions thread is full of interaction between hobbyists and providers and it can be a great place to kill a few hours when you are on the road stuck in a hotel with not much else to do. Here there are virtually no posts let alone any interaction with providers. That is the problem.

That being said, I highly encourage everyone to start posting. I get the fact that most of you in AZ, (especially Tucson) are scared of posting anything for fear of it somehow being used against you. The thing is that you do not have to post anything incriminating here. This is a thread for interacting with each other and providers. There is nothing illegal about communicating with each other on here. If you feel something would incriminate you in any way, then don't post it. That's what PM's are for.

With the amount of responses I have received from the last two posts I posted trying to get some kind of reactions though, I am not to optimistic that this one will inspire much interaction either. It is very sad, but I think I am giving up on ECCIE being popular here. I guess this will have to be my go to site just while I am on the road.

[davephx]

Originally Posted by SpiceInTucson

I can't even come on to Arizona thread because it's nothing but his posts. I get that some may find it useful. But give him his own super thread. He has taken all over the Arizona section and it makes it so much less appealing. I have to scroll through five of his posts just to find an actual person posting.
Can we please give him his own place to post and he can bump with new stuff??

In other words you seem to have no interest in the real world in Phoenix and be informed of the legal issues etc. You seem to feel ignorance is bliss instead having power in knowledge.

[davephx]

Originally Posted by SpiceInTucson

I can't even come on to Arizona thread because it's nothing but his posts. I get that some may find it useful. But give him his own super thread. He has taken all over the Arizona section and it makes it so much less appealing. I have to scroll through five of his posts just to find an actual person posting.


Can we please give him his own place to post and he can bump with new stuff??

In other words you seem to have no interest in the real world in Phoenix and be informed of the legal issues etc. You seem to feel ignorance is bliss instead having power in knowledge.

[davephx]

Prostitution Law Challenge in Federal Court Delayed.

August 7 Hearing and Press Conference Cancelled but Sex Workers and Clients Challenging California's Prostitution Law Cautiously Optimistic

San Francisco, CA — Supporters and practitioners of "the world's oldest profession" looking forward to their day in court will have to wait a little longer. The hearing on their opponents' bid to dismiss their lawsuit which was scheduled to be heard in federal court in Oakland on August 7 was cancelled. The judge will instead issue a written ruling on the motion.

In March, the Erotic Service Providers Legal, Education and Research Project (ESPLER), a grassroots organization advancing sexual privacy rights through legal advocacy, brought suit on behalf of several women and a man in U.S. District Court on the grounds that California's anti-prostitution statute, Section 647(b) of the state Penal Code, violates fundamental Constitutional rights.

Retired California Deputy Supervising Attorney General Jerald M. is among those who support the lawsuit in which his former boss, the California Attorney General Kamala H, is a defendant.

"The heart of the case rests on the liberty and privacy rights guaranteed by the 14th Amendment, basic rights the U.S. Supreme Court has been elaborating since the 1960s as it has upheld an individual’s right to use contraceptives, to terminate a pregnancy, and to practice gay sex," M. said.

He cautioned however that persuading the court to apply that same reasoning to uphold a consenting adult’s right to take money for private sex will not be easy. "Plaintiffs are standing up to deeply rooted animosity and dark stereotypes. But there is powerful language in the high court’s decisions of the last 50 years that will prove very helpful. Especially helpful will be the court’s 2003 acknowledgment that sex is 'the most private human conduct' and that '[L]iberty gives substantial protection to adult persons in deciding how to conduct their private lives in matters pertaining to sex.'”

The motion by defendants -- who along with Harris include the district attorneys of four California counties, Alameda, Marin, San Francisco and Sonoma -- relies in great part on interpretations of Supreme Court opinions, arguing that the court’s decisions have not established a fundamental sexual privacy right broad enough to include commercial sex. Plaintiffs counter that prostitution rights, like gay rights, abortion rights and contraception rights, do indeed follow from the more general privacy and sexual rights already laid down by the high court.

There is no fixed timetable for Judge W to rule on the motion. But it is unlikely that the court will dismiss the suit in its entirety, M. said. "Even if the right to prostitution is not (upheld), plaintiffs are entitled to prove that California’s statute has no rational relationship to a legitimate governmental purpose. The court will likely allow the case to move on to allow the parties to develop their respective arguments and evidence on that rational-basis issue."

M. expects the litigation will evolve as a battle between those who want to sell a conventional image of prostitution and those who want to study the facts of prostitution. "Courts take pride in protecting individuals from stereotypes and insisting on the facts," the former litigator asserted. "It is the plaintiffs’ mission to ensure that the courts do just that in this case."

While many in the sex work community still fear it's an uphill battle, another recent court action has given some reason to hope that the time is ripe for judicial movement on this issue.

Last month, the sheriff of Cook County, Illinois, sent threatening letters to credit card companies Visa and Mastercard "requesting" that they "cease and desist" allowing their credit cards to be used to place ads on websites like Backpage.com, which he claimed "promote prostitution" and facilitate "sex trafficking". Within 48 hours of receiving these letters, both companies buckled and terminated their 11-year relationships with the online classified site.

Backpage responded by filing suit in U.S. District Court in Illinois seeking an injunction against the sheriff for overstepping his authority, compensation for lost revenues, and punitive damages for causing Backpage ‘irreparable harm’. On July 24, the court decided their argument was strong enough to grant the website a temporary injunction against the sheriff's "extra-judicial, extra-legal" efforts to shut it down, while the case is being litigated.

ESPLER Project president Maxine D. noted that plaintiffs in her group's filing are asking for comparatively little. “All we’re seeking in this lawsuit is injunctive relief," she said. "If the courts grant our plea to stop the persecution, then we can start looking at how to rectify the harm that erotic service providers, clients, and other community members have suffered since this law was enacted in 1961."

If the judge does grant the defendants’ motion to dismiss this case, ESPLER and the plaintiffs plans to appeal to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.

For more information visit www.ESPLERP.org

[davephx]

Arizona Court of Appeals Upholds Underage Police Sting Mandatory 7 to 21 years in prison with no eligibility for early release or parole.

August 4, 2015 Case No. 1 CA-SA 15-0107.
The State alleges that defendant was one of a number of men arrested on April 23, 2014 in a sting operation where officers posed as 16 year-old runaways willing to engage in sexual conduct for money. As alleged, the men had online interactions with the "runaways" followed by face-to-face contact in a hotel room with an adult officer who posed as a 16 yr old.

At trial the Court the defendant was convicted but filed a motion for reconsideration and after oral arguments the Court reversed the conviction since the "victim" was not a true minor but an adult police officer.

The State filed a petition for Special Action to the Court of Appeals. A "Special Action" is accepted when the Court of Appeals finds the case to be urgent "take me first" and gets ahead of the regular appeals calendar.

The Arizona Appeals Court said, " Special action jurisdiction is available when there is no other equally plain, speedy or adequate remedy by appeal. Special action jurisdiction is appropriately invoked when there is an issue of statewide importance, issues of first impression, cases involving purely legal questions, or issues that are likely to arise again. Given the reoccurring nature of this type of case and the serious nature of child prostitution, acceptance of special action jurisdiction is appropriate." (cites deleted)

In a long decision involving differences related to age 15 or age 16 or 17 which has now been corrected by latest law changed, the Arizona Appeals Court reversed the reversal of the trial Court and agreed with the State. The fact that the victim was an adult police officer pretending to be age 16 was not a defense.

[GiveMeLibertyOrGiveMeHead]

Originally Posted by davephx

In other words you seem to have no interest in the real world in Phoenix and be informed of the legal issues etc. You seem to feel ignorance is bliss instead having power in knowledge.

Speaking of the real world, you should wake up and join it. I am all for sex workers and the legalization of prostitution, but there is no way in hell this will happen now that the war on sex trafficking has been declared. They are coming after sex workers and those that partake in the sex game hard, (no pun intended) and it is only going to get worse from here on out. Whatever little ground the cause has gained is all going to be wiped away as new laws will be put into effect and tons of money and resources will be put towards enforcing those.

This new war comes on the heels of the failed war on drugs and the powers that be will be hell bent on winning this one at all costs. The war on drugs was started by Nixon in 1971 and went on for several decades before it was considered lost and states started to legalize marijuana. How many decades do you think it will take for this new war to fail and for prostitution to be legalized? I do not see that happening in my lifetime, so I really don't care to hear about the fight for a lost cause.

On the other hand, you have the right to post whatever you want and I defend that, but being a dick and trying to hijack this thread with your bullshit shows what little class you have. You can post whatever you want in your own thread, but posting your bullshit in this thread complaining about your bullshit posts in the first place is a real dick move and hopefully they will be deleted, (or maybe not). Either way, try having a little more class and getting along with the opposite sex. Maybe you will actually get some instead of just talking about what's going on with the legal system.

[davephx]

Gee do you always use such language and just call people names. I bet your a trump fan and love his putting everyone down.

If the GLBT community thought like you do they would still be hiding in closets. Or women or blacks getting to vote you would have thought a "lost cause"?

I agree the laws are terrible and the mass amounts of funding by the victim industry. That is why the only hope is a constitutional challange which some very bright lawyers that have won sex related cases before beleive they at least have a 50-50 chance at.

For decades I have been an advocate and have known too many children taken away and lives ruined by these laws that only put sexworkers more at risk., It may be a lost cause but some of us will still promote the fight for the freedoms of sexual expression that most of the world enjoys except the U.S.

[GiveMeLibertyOrGiveMeHead]

if my language offends you then maybe you shouldn't be on an adult site brother. As far as Trump goes, I am a fan of his results, not his words. If he ran the country like he runs a business than he just may be what we need right now. I had really high hopes until he opened his mouth. I am not a fan of his big mouth and racism, but sometimes you need to accept some bad for the greater good.

As far as you fighting for the cause goes, what do you think you are achieving by posting all the results of court cases here? How exactly are these posts helping the cause? It seems like no one really cares about them and you are getting absolutely no comments or interaction on them. I have no problem with them and I even defended your right to post them, I am just asking if you think you are doing anyone any good by posting them? If so, good for you. You are a hero in my book.

[Simply Spice]

Originally Posted by davephx

Gee do you always use such language and just call people names. I bet your a trump fan and love his putting everyone down.

If the GLBT community thought like you do they would still be hiding in closets. Or women or blacks getting to vote you would have thought a "lost cause"?

I agree the laws are terrible and the mass amounts of funding by the victim industry. That is why the only hope is a constitutional challange which some very bright lawyers that have won sex related cases before beleive they at least have a 50-50 chance at.

For decades I have been an advocate and have known too many children taken away and lives ruined by these laws that only put sexworkers more at risk., It may be a lost cause but some of us will still promote the fight for the freedoms of sexual expression that most of the world enjoys except the U.S.

Like I said you should have your own thread full of your prostitution laws stuff.


It's illegal. It will never be legal. I don't come into coed to be slammed with all the possibilities of what's new in hooker land. I live it. I am simply saying I want to come in to coed and see hobbyist and ladies having conversations. Maybe it came off as a dick thing. I just don't understand why you can't make one thread and call it "hooker news 101" and then you can post your posts every single day in one thread instead of coed being just your posts.

I know everyone has a right to post but it would nice to see a variety of conversations.

I also personally don't like you as you have attached Gina is so many places and have tried to take away the credibility of a great site. There are so many people who now don't give that site enough credit because you make such an effort to make it look like she's working with law enforcement and it's all because of a personal experience you had where you were not satisfied. You have your own personal agenda against Gina and it's obnoxious.

That woman has done a lot for verification and given a very safe environment that we can trust. And because you didn't get your way you have made it clear you will try to discredit her in every single way.


Now like I was saying. If you want to post your hooker law drama everyday. Keep it on one single thread so that we can bring some life to the other side of hobbying.

It's just a suggestion. I am sure there are many people who do read your posts, I personally don't and I know many other hobbyists don't. For me personally I don't care about the day to day legal crap

For me who cares. Like I said it's illegal. It will always be illegal. And we just need to stay safe.

Just as he is entitled to his opinion as am I. I was simply voicing a suggestion. And please hijack this thread and keep all of it on here instead of everywhere else.

[davephx]

Originally Posted by SpiceInTucson

I also personally don't like you as you have attached Gina is so many places and have tried to take away the credibility of a great site. There are so many people who now don't give that site enough credit because you make such an effort to make it look like she's working with law enforcement and it's all because of a personal experience you had where you were not satisfied. You have your own personal agenda against Gina and it's obnoxious.

That woman has done a lot for verification and given a very safe environment that we can trust. And because you didn't get your way you have made it clear you will try to discredit her in every single way.


Now like I was saying. If you want to post your hooker law drama everyday. Keep it on one single thread so that we can bring some life to the other side of hobbying. .

You seem to like to call names. I deal in facts.
Gina has slandered me on many boards with her lies that I make up stories and am not reliable. It is not any personal agenda just sharing the overwhelming number of reports about P411

So lets get the facts out. Below is just a sample of what companions have said, not me unless I specifically indicate Dave notes. This is not about me this is about safety of companions and clients. Oh yes Gina will say all the reports are just rumors and out to get her. Let's have the facts come out at least what zillions of companions have reported from about 2013. Pre 2013 FBI report Gina seemed to take safety more seriously but now just attacks and kicks of P411 most reports of suspected LE activity.

FBI Press release is still on the FBI website. By all the reported alledged LE activity on P411 it appears most all the major police agencies are very aware of it, especially after the FBI press release in 2013:
https://www.fbi.gov/denver/press-rel...ng-in-colorado

Includes:
"On June 12 and 13, 2013, Denver Metro area law enforcement agencies participated in an operation that concentrated on escorts advertising on the Internet site www.preferred411.com.

Investigators have found this site to be used nationwide to advertise for the purposes of prostitution and to verify “clients.”

During the course of the investigation and two-day operation, 12 female escorts advertising on the website were arrested for prostitution-related offenses. In addition, 10 female escorts advertising on www.denverbackpage.com were also arrested for prostitution-related offenses.

During a four-month investigation, law enforcement identified the escorts operating in Colorado and male “clients” using websites to conduct acts of prostitution or what the “clients” refer to as their “hobby.”
============================== =====
This is a sample of reports about Gina and P411:
July 2015 P411 Suspicious Report
Phoenix Companion says:
"No reviews, and phone number came up with multiple backpage ads closely dated together in three different states." He is concerned because they exchanged e-mails with her talking about sex acts and he asked about FS and is concerned.

She is listed as in Avondale at https://www.preferred411.comxxxxxxxxx

Question asked:
So the FBI could serve a subpoena on a Canadian website notwithstanding the fact that prostitution in legal in Canada.

Dave replies:
Yes. There is a criminal treaty between the U.S. and Canada which allows this.

Under the new C-36 law, P411 is now clearly illegal in Canada. The big Canadian papers will probably challenge the law when any charges are filed. The New C-36 law by the anti-sex conservative government follows the Swedish model. Only customers can be arrested and anyone advertising for sexwork, other than the individual worker.
============================== =====
May 2015: A well-known escort on P411 stings in an e-mail to me says, “I just don't want to associate with anyone anymore. After all the shit iv been though. I trust no one… two escorts whom Iv been friends, with one of them, openly admitted they gave Vice okays on p411. Nothing is 100% safe ever. Even if Iv seen you before. How do I not know you haven't been compromised? Im not worried about what other people think.

Guys need to stop giving out their info. Way too many clients and providers have been outed."
============================== =====
January 2015 In response to recent P411 suspected mole well known long-time companion says:
"Dave I told you this about P411 over 2 years ago + Maggie McNeill blogged about it with "something in the milk" the also arrest a dozen women in denver off P411 + the media says they were under investigations by the feds.

"Yet when I brought my concerns to Gina of P411 she blew me off + then she kicked me off the site in minutes. P411 let's any provider in that has 1 review anywhere + let's remember date-check.com has been around for over a decade + they have never been mentioned in the media they make sure each escort has another escort vouch for her thus nobody has gotten into their system.

"Many if us think that Gina from P411 is working with the feds as this way she keeps all the profits + we know her line about them not being able to touch her because she is in canada is bullshit as canada would spit her out if the us issued a warrant for trafficking. Amazing that we have been warning the women for over 2 years + some are still desperate + naïve enough to use P411"
============================== =====
2014: I have seen a decline in Gina's responsiveness as well. Usually she posts an alert when security is infiltrated. When that big sting went down in Denver, nothing. I was shocked. It seemed like she was trying to hide it. “
============================== =====
I just got banned from P411 for trying to warn her about an infected male client spreading incurable disease around her members. She accused me of lying (why would I do that? I'm not lying) and blackmailing men (huh? Never done that in my life). What is going on with her? I was trying to protect women and she banned me and is presumably protecting an infected member. I had other sites email her to vouch for my 14 year excellent reputation, but no answer. She has also kept $7500 of my money. This is madness. Do you know what's going on? (Dave notes this was from her e-mail to me on the Private List she also made a similar statement on Maggies blog and used her escort name - shown later).
============================== =====
From July 2014 - have edited out very personal information with xxx's. This is from an upset companion about P411 - I have no direct knowledge if this is true, but have no reason to believe it is not. For legal protection I have saved her e-mail and others that I quote. This is from a very high priced companion that has probably at least 20 years in the business who I have known (not professionally) personally and consider her a very reliable source who does a lot of deep research when she gets on an issue.
"Gina" was/is:
Kxxxx Kxxxx
A&B Entertainment
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Denver CO 80209
Was a pimped teenager in Hawaii in the 1980s and 1990s
Was "Kelly" in Denver on EscortAmerica and DecadentCity in 1997
Was madam of www.DenverCream.com (1997)
Was madam of www.PrivateConnection.com (2001)
Started www.Preferred411.com in 2005:
xxxxxxxxxxxxx., Brampton, Ontario L6T5H8 Canada
Dave notes the address in Brampton I go by every trip since it’s near some of my favorite high quality nude-reverse body rubs (in Mississauga) and use to be near 2 of my favorite strip clubs (one has since moved).

The address is probably just a mail drop but will have to check it out next trip to Toronto.
Another comment received about mailing address:
"what u find, probably a po box or could even be fake (that business is"JADO construction" web design, total front company for $ laundering that has never done anything, has no customers, etc."

Dave notes I didn't take the time to check out the address when I was nearby on my 2014 or May 2015 Mississauga/Niagara trips.
============================== =====
"After my experience after the June 2014 FBI stings and Gina's reaction when I had solid evidence about a P411 account, I did some research and was amazed at the infiltration reports of many and the disgust of many regarding Gina's attitude."
============================== =====
All sites have this risk but some site owners take it more seriously when alerted of evidence of infiltration than Gina seems to with "lies and rumors" or being upset when a P411 escort is assumed to be LE based on the evidence.

Over the years the infiltrations of P411 have been both from customers and escorts that have flipped to give up their logins under LE pressure. P411 seems very well known now in the LE community nationally and could be the next Redbook, although since she is in Canada a bit harder to go after her, so they seem to go after verified folks.

Others have also been raising the alarm for example:
"P411 Infiltrated" http://jennydemilo.com/2013/06/p411-infiltrated/

P411 specifically targeted by the FBI and Denver police in FBI release
http://www.fbi.gov/denver/press-rele...ng-in-colorado

"No big secret about LE infiltration of P411"
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discu...rdID=10&page=1

Also the Appleton Wisconsin and Houston infiltrations before 2013 just a few I recall.

More reports:
May 2014 - Mid TN experienced and continues to experience some very unfortunate events and attitudes. It came to my attention upon return that someone had infiltrated p411 with the result being the arrest of several of my contemporaries. Unfortunately, this is an all too often event that occurs in this community. Yet, what concerned me more than the actual events were the attitude/s that prevailed. I was shocked when I read some of the comments and defenses given and seriously question the motives behind. http://mygfekali.com/blog-single.php?id=56

Has uncle leo ever infiltrated P411?
Over the years, there have been incidents in Arkansas and Michigan where legitimate clients gave up their entire screening portfolio, which were then used to cause problems for the ladies. P411 is only intended to be used as ONE tool in the verification process, everyone is strongly encouraged to do as much additional research as they feel is necessary to stay safe. http://64.7.135.207/theotherboard/fo...ad.php?t=31761

A long rant and angry, defensive response from Gina when back in 2009 someone reports LE on her site: http://badboyreport.kr/2009/12/www-p...select-others/

Gina also seems to have a history of removing anyone from P411 that doesn't march to her tune - Lots of ripoff and complaints but some of these may just be personal at http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Prefer...nternet-716224

A national board moderator with a protection attitude warns a board has been infiltrated: (This can happen on any board so not important which one this is)

"6/28/14 - There have been 3 confirmed reports of LE stings on the board in the last 2 weeks. Everyone needs to be operating from a position or stance of safety first. Checking references, Investigating new peoples whom contact you, and not saying things on the phone or in Email that will incriminate you.

"Hookers get busted, and so do Johns. We all know lots of people who have, and if you do this long enough you will have an LE encounter of the worst kind as well. Lots of us know that sometimes girls flip for LE and there are several here on the board who used to be active who have cut deals.

"I have never before now known of ON board stings. There was one in Kirkland where a board handle booked an app and showed up as LE. There have been 2 instances in Portland now where gals have been busted off the board In both those instances LE tried to get ladies to flip, to get out from having charges filed. In 1 account The lady said she observed the LE manipulating many handles on the board and on xxxxxx board as well.

"A provider was busted earlier this week and was offered a deal that they would rip up her ticket if she gave them her Handle to use. She says she took the ticket instead. This is alarming and not necessarily great for what we’re trying to do here, but I’m worried others may not be as strong as her.

"Everyone needs to stop acting all loosey goosey with personal security and wise up fast. If You see something suspicious please report it to xxxx@gmail.com."

This seems the opposite of Gina and P411 who seems to just want to protect profits and seems unconcerned about safety of her customers.
============================== =====
Dave notes this was from 2013 when Gina did seem to be serious about LE infiltration reports. For many years I supported P411 and she was helpful in some cases in Phoenix years ago before she tried to hide LE on P411 and all the reports from companions):

Well known Phoenix Companion on Operation Cross Country
"In addition to that, you saw the news on Operation Cross Country with the FBI but what you may havenot seen is the analysis one blogger did about the number of arrests and where they were. Supposedly Phoenix had 30 girls rescued yet the FBI has not reported this. That means that it is very likely still an active investigation. So get the word out in Phoenix that the feds are on hunt and to screen very thoroughly. Also, do not trust P411 unless you know the provider personally. LE has as part of plea agreements, taken over both lady and client profiles. I spotted one from DC that had been compromised and I e-mail Gina at P411 and she took the profile down. http://eminism.org/blog/entry/387Also, in case you missed it. FBI conducted a sting in Denver and infiltrated P411 as part of it. http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...ver-metro-area

Dave notes I believe this is similar to the notice on the FBI website. The Denver article includes:
The two-day crackdown on Wednesday and Thursday reeled in escorts who advertised on www.preferred411.com and www.denverbackpage.com, according to an FBI news release.

Investigators found that www.preferred411.com was "used nationwide to advertise for the purposes of prostitution and to verify 'clients,'" according to the release.

Twelve of the arrested women advertised on that site.
============================== =====
Dave notes this is from the Private List early 2013 when I still trusted Gina:
Dave said: Another reported P411 Bust A rather well known in the media (film) escort was set up by a fake P411 client and a fake reference in Minneapolis. According to well-known reliable source’s e-mail to me

“The client showed up and then then 20 minutes later, the violent offenders squad waited till they got a search warrant, they took her computer, cell, date book, condoms and toys and tore (her film) poster off her wall. They did not arrest her nor did they give her a summons to appears, they just left with her stuff. Within hours p411 removed her profile (This was in I'm Minneapolis) p411 has refused to put up a warning for the escorts, and just 2 months before thia Gina allowed a employee access to our credit card info, and the girl copied evrything.”

“P411 refuses to answer our emails about this, so I thought I would see if you could find anything out. I still require my own screening of the client is from p411.” (Dave notes this doesn't sound like Gina, might be mistaken identity of who is LE related - I may contact Gina if she wants to respond as requested by this person)
============================== =====
More Worries about P411 Maggie McNeill - "The Honest Courtesan" had a comment posted on her old 2014 discussion in June 2015:

"A well-known and popular provider in Denver purposely went to the authorities with details about P411 in exchange for her own pending legal issues to be dropped. She is a snake-a selfish, fraud with no regard for anyone but herself. And Gina is just as shitty because as soon as the shit hit the fan relative to the above-provider’s betrayal – Gina bails (Dave notes deleted comments which may not be supported and I have not heard this about Gina from other reports).. but doesn’t say a word about the ordeal to the rest of the community – leaving them all for the wolves.

I would strongly recommend closing your p411 accounts and keeping your private information off similar sites. Trust no one." This was in response to: "Dear Maggie, P411 lilyI am writing this in hopes that you may help me to share this information regarding P411. I was reluctant to come forward at first, but after the evidence that presented itself today, I can no longer deny the responsibility that I have to my sisters to report that I strongly believe that the security of the site can no longer be trusted.

I was the biggest proponent of P411 for years, but now sadly, I must say that Gina and I exchanged emails today that can leave me with no other impression than that she is working with cops, maybe even the FBI." (Long detail of which can be found on the source link at the end of this note).

Earlier in the discussion Bella Robinson comments: "I was thrown off P411 last year because I publicly posted a warning after numerous attempts with Gina to clean up the P411 site and get their security under control. Anytime you throw off a well reviewed provider because she has concerns “its a bad thing” and after reading this new article, I am more sure then ever that I was right.

I also had concerns that the P411 clients kept messaging me through P411 sever, to inquire about illegal acts, and when I complained about their behavior to Gina, she told me the other providers don’t care so its OK with her that the clients behave this way.

I also have received emails from other providers who tell me Gina threatened them because they blacklisted a P411 client. Another escort was told by Gina/P411, that all her rates on all her ads had to match her P411 profile…. hmm Gina/P411 is starting to sound like David Elm the original TER owner who exploited and threatened women if they wouldn’t give freebies to him and his friends.

" Ragnar "I have to agree with all that has been written about Gina; she is a fraud when it comes to safety. I had similar security concerns about her that have also been shared with me by fellow hobbiest and providors. I’m glad that this information is getting out; shd will sell us out to protect herself. She doesn’t care about her customers one iota.

" krulac "Well expect Gina to suddenly become a commenter here in 3 … 2 … 1 … That’s her modus operandi." Gina: Her usual not addressing any facts just that she doesn't always agree with everyone and "This sort of accusation has been thrown out by people who don’t like hearing my opinion, since I first started becoming somewhat known on the internet. So this is nothing new, but it’s always disappointing. "P411 is only intended to be used as one tool in the verification process. Please do as much additional screening and research as you feel is necessary, to keep yourself safe."

CaptainBeta "Are the facts that Maggie present in this post regarding communication with you incorrect? If so, please state exactly where the factual errors are. From my understanding of information security (masters degree in Computer Science), the story as Maggie presented it seems believable. "Seems pretty obvious to me that you’ve gotten in trouble with law enforcement and are currently working out a plea agreement by cooperating the police. I’m sorry that things have ended up like this.

The US justice system is fucked up in a lot of ways. I understand that you can’t admit this in public, but someone should warn the rest of the people involved here.

monica murno "Gina thew me off her board because I warned guys on eccie that a p411 provider had a pump (pimp?). I thought we was suppose to help our fellow hobbyist . Instead she kicked. me off. Soon after I had cops calling me."

mrsrobinsoninri "I had ongoing issues with P411 for years. First Gina of P411 admits that a ex employee got access to all of the credit card info, and even though they promise that it is a secure site, when you confront them with this, there response, is you should have used a ********card. I bet most of the clients used their debit cards.

"Back in 2011 3 escorts got busted in Ohio and they made up 3 fake profiles for the cops. "Denver 2012 a dozen P411 arrested and in the media the fbi said they are investigating P411. "The worst is when I complained, that P411 clients are messaging me through their server out and right asking about illegal services. I was told it was OK because the other providers didn’t mind.

"As a sex worker right activist I talk to thousands of US escorts every year and I have been told that P411 is threatening providers who blacklist any P411 client. P411 has emailed providers and demanded that their prices be the same on every website. It sounds much like David Elm of The Erotic Review back in the day when they threatened escorts that wouldn’t give freebies or discounts.

"The final straw is when P411 throws off providers because they have commented on their concerns for P411 on review forums. So they throw off anyone that has concerns rather than correcting these concerns. "Something is definitely in the milk and that is why I opt out for date-check.com, and have never had any DC client ask me anything inappropriate.

Amy Taylor "I just got banned from P411 for trying to warn her about an infected male client spreading incurable disease around her members. I was proud of myself for doing such a helpful thing for others, but instead she accused me of lying (why would I do that? I`m not lying) and blackmailing men (huh? Never done that in my life). "What is going on with her? I was trying to protect women (and clients, indirectly…diseases spread) and she banned me and is presumably protecting an infected member. "I had other sites email her to vouch for my 14 year excellent reputation, but no answer. "This is madness. Do you know what`s going on over there? Beyond insane & shocking; she seems either totally insane or purely evil."
Much more at: https://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/...milk/#comments