UNION GREED...CHICAGO STYLE...

[Whirlaway]

WSJ article.....

WHY CHICAGO DEBT WAS DOWNGRADED TO JUNK

Illinois’s domination by public unions has the state dancing on the edge of fiscal freefall. The state Supreme Court ruled last week that Springfield can’t alter pension benefits, prompting Moody’s this week to downgrade the debt of the city, its public schools and park district all to junk status. Now the Chicago Teachers Union wants to make another contribution to the collapse.

In May the union filed an unfair labor practice complaint with the Illinois Educational Labor Relations Board, accusing the school district of failing to bargain in good faith and rejecting mediation to reach a new contract. The union’s complaint? The school district wants teachers to chip in more for their pensions. The horror.

The dispute goes back to 1981, when in lieu of larger pay raises the district agreed to pick up seven percentage points of the teachers’ contribution of 9% of their salaries to their pensions. This is on top of the district’s own contribution. Teachers have since become accustomed to paying only 2% of their salaries for pensions, about $1,496 a year on average.

Many current teachers weren’t in the school system in 1981, but they like the perk of paying a fraction of their pension cost. Who wouldn’t? The 2% contribution is far less than the 9% contributions made by many other public employees in Illinois, let alone the 6.2% payroll tax for Social Security or what private workers pay into 401(k)s.

Teachers are also comparatively well compensated. The Illinois State Board of Education says the average Chicago teacher salary is about $71,000 a year. That compares to Chicago’s median salary of $47,270 in 2009-2013, according to the Census Bureau. The average starting pension for a Chicago teacher retiring in 2011 after a public-school career was $77,496, according to the Illinois Policy Institute. The city will pay a teacher who retired in 2011 some $2.4 million during retirement, up from $1.35 million a decade earlier....

The above is an excerpt; for the full story google WSJ Chicago Junk Debt....it is behind a paywall but google search will bypass.

[Whirlaway]

Starting salary of $77,496 for 8 months of work?

That is the equivalent to an annual salary of $116,000 - starting.

What's wrong with that picture? And $2.4 million paid out in retirement?

And keep in mind; most aren't teaching, but providing baby sitting services.

[pyramider]

Also remember the cost of living in the Chicago area is about 2X what it is in Houston or DFW. Taxes: income (city and state), property, and sales taxes are very, very high.

[Jackie S]

The only problem Chicago, and other like Cities have, is they can't print their own money..........like the Federal Government can.

[Whirlaway]

That is an exaggeration.

This links shows the cost of living difference - Chicago is about 7% higher than Dallas.


http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living...2=Dallas%2C+TX

Originally Posted by pyramider

Also remember the cost of living in the Chicago area is about 2X what it is in Houston or DFW. Taxes: income (city and state), property, and sales taxes are very, very high.

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Starting salary of $77,496 for 8 months of work?

That is the equivalent to an annual salary of $116,000 - starting.

What's wrong with that picture? And $2.4 million paid out in retirement?

And keep in mind; most aren't teaching, but providing baby sitting services.

No, it's not. Most opt to receive their pay over the full 12 month period. So it's not like making $116000 at all. It's like making exactly what it says they make. And if you think that teachers are just babysitters, you're a bigger joke than I already thought you were. Your lack of understanding that they mold the future is galling.

[Whirlaway]

Nice try.

Chicago teachers are overpaid.

And my math is correct; they work about 8 months out of the year and get a STARTING salary of about $77,500. Annualized that is the equivalent to a $116,000 a year position. For a starting teacher.

Originally Posted by WombRaider

No, it's not. Most opt to receive their pay over the full 12 month period. So it's not like making $116000 at all. It's like making exactly what it says they make. And if you think that teachers are just babysitters, you're a bigger joke than I already thought you were. Your lack of understanding that they mold the future is galling.

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Nice try.

Chicago teachers are overpaid.

And my math is correct; they work about 8 months out of the year and get a STARTING salary of about $77,500. Annualized that is the equivalent to a $116,000 a year position. For a starting teacher.

No, the 77,500 number is spread out over 12 months... not the 116000.

They're paid what the market will bear. I thought that was what you capitalists wanted. You say teachers are overpaid, but CEOs make just the right amount, yes? Fucking hypocrite.

[JD Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

No, it's not. Most opt to receive their pay over the full 12 month period. So it's not like making $116000 at all. It's like making exactly what it says they make. And if you think that teachers are just babysitters, you're a bigger joke than I already thought you were. Your lack of understanding that they mold the future is galling.

What's galling is your lack of understanding of how it works. Eight months work for a year's pay gives certain opportunities not available to the average person. During your off time you can go back to school, work another job (while still getting paid for teaching), take a vacation (imagine going to three different places in the world for a month each and then having a month sleeping late at home? Another thing that many teachers come to realize is that they don't have to turn out a finished product that can be inspected. If the student is not doing so well...they're get it next year (it's not my responsibility).

[Whirlaway]

"spread out" has nothing to do with the math; you obviously are an economic illigerate.

I didn't comment about CEO pay.

But if teacher's want to be treated/paid as professionals, they need to work like professionals. Twelve months a year; not 8.

By your measurement; we could get those same teachers to work 12 months and only pay them $77,000, since they are getting a "spread out" salary.

"the market will bear".......LOL....You are an idiot.

Originally Posted by WombRaider

No, the 77,500 number is spread out over 12 months... not the 116000.

They're paid what the market will bear. I thought that was what you capitalists wanted. You say teachers are overpaid, but CEOs make just the right amount, yes? Fucking hypocrite.

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

What's galling is your lack of understanding of how it works. Eight months work for a year's pay gives certain opportunities not available to the average person. During your off time you can go back to school, work another job (while still getting paid for teaching), take a vacation (imagine going to three different places in the world for a month each and then having a month sleeping late at home? Another thing that many teachers come to realize is that they don't have to turn out a finished product that can be inspected. If the student is not doing so well...they're get it next year (it's not my responsibility).

It's obvious that school failed you, this is true. Go back to school in your off time? Most of the time, this is required. It's called continuing education classes. Jesus Christ. Why are you begrudging someone their job choice? You're certainly welcome to be a teacher, not that I would recommend it for you personally, but no one is stopping you. You act like these teachers aren't married, don't have kids, etc. They often take work home with them as well, so the work day is not over when they get home. I bitch about CEO pay and get my ass jumped. But bitching about a teacher's pay gets people all excited. Perfect example of how ass-fucked backwards shit is in this country. These people spend more time with your kids than the parents do, mold them for the future, the future of our country, and you want to cut their pay and make their job harder. It's retrograde thinking.

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

"spread out" has nothing to do with the math; you obviously are an economic illigerate.

I didn't comment about CEO pay.

But if teacher's want to be treated/paid as professionals, they need to work like professionals. Twelve months a year; not 8.

By your measurement; we could get those same teachers to work 12 months and only pay them $77,000, since they are getting a "spread out" salary.

"the market will bear".......LOL....You are an idiot.

You're the illiterate. 77K spread out over 12 months, is not like making 116K. Not in any sense. Work like professionals? Are you serious? YOU are only paying them 77k, you twat. They get paid 77K, whether it's spread out over 8 or 12 months. Over 12 months, the monthly payment is smaller. You're the economic illiterate cunt if you don't get that simple fucking fact.

[Whirlaway]

You are an imbecile. Spread out has nothing to do with it.

To understand how outrageous a Chicago starting teacher's salary (not including extravagant benefits); compare apples to apples.....a starting teacher's 8 month salary is equivalent to a $116,000 a year position.

They are over paid for what they do and what they produce.

Compared to starting salary of other "professions" they are overpaid by a factor of 3. These other professions work 12 months a year.

[Yssup Rider]

Whir-LIE-turd talking about JUNK again.

Where's JDIdiot on the issue? He LOVES JUNK!

Why don't you ever see Whir-LIE-turd and JDIdiot post at the same time?

Hmmmm

[Whirlaway]

Do the math....a starting Chicago teacher gets $77,500 for 185 days of work, or $420 per day.

An starting electrical engineer earns $57,000 for 260 days of work, or $219 per day.

The Chicago school teacher (and every teacher in the US) is overpaid compared to other professions. And these numbers don't include the pension and other benefits that are lavishly paid for by taxpayers.