"pros- tit_tu/shun"

[daty/o]

Part of a popular Woody Allen quote states "I think that the worst you can say about him is that basically he's an underachiever." I'm repeatedly convinced that the same is obviously true about the American Judicial System, in general, and law enforcement agencies, in particular. Having just endured another inept attempt at documenting the evil nature of the sex industry and the measures needed to curtail it, I am, once again, left with the disconcerting feeling that no one with any sense is at the controls. Why is the sex industry so hard to legislate? All criminal activity has levels; even murder has degrees. How hard is it to understand that human and/or underage trafficking and involuntary management are the true evils of this environment? Yet so many of these "in-depth documentaries" focus more on removing the "victim" provider and punishing the "deviant" client. To me, that's just going for the low hanging fruit. Much easier to bust pot smokers than drug cartels. Maybe it's time to consider ways of policing our own community. Do you think that "because we understand it" that we are any better prepared to do so? I know a lot of guys already won't see girls if they are managed, but does it matter if that management is voluntary or not? And how do you know? In any event, we are way past the need for a NORPL.

[Chung Tran]

I think we are in a better position to police, and it matters to many of us if someone is pimped, especially involuntarily.. with that, we are probably limited as far as what effect we can truly have, but considering the nature of the business, I think we do fairly well.

minds and thoughts of the greater community must be changed though.. Cops like to blame the "low hanging fruit", the Johns... "if you didn't seek this activity, there would not be problems of Pimps and human trafficking"... like you said, easier to blame the easy target, than put the work in to eliminate associated evils..

[Mushroom]

I agree that we are in a better position to deal with issues related to the sex industry than police because we have a more intrinsic perspective. The police have to enforce laws that archaic , impractical , and based on religious doctrine. The religious fundamentalist minority is using human trafficking as a deception to destroy our freedom. . If the religious and civic leaders really want to deal with the problem of human trafficking they would work with us instead of against us. Also, I think the media is aggravating the problem by promoting sensationalist garbage and calling them "documentaries." All the documentaries about human trafficking in the sex industry I have seen are not even close to being truthful or factual. I've been active in this community for almost fifty years and I know bs when I see it. If it looks like bs ,smells like bs , and is coming out of the south end of a bull, then I'm calling it bs .In contrast to the failures of the media , the police , and religious fanatics , I applaud the effort and success of the eccie community to stop human trafficking in the sex industry. Just because there are some low life scumbags in our community does not mean the whole thing is tainted. We're doing a good job of self governing and don't need a bunch of idiot hypocrites in city hall , Austin , or Washington D.C. micro managing our lives.

[TinMan]

I agree with your premise, daty/o, I just don't know what to do about it.

[APerfectCircle]

I'm not sure what we can do about it either. I personally try not to see girls who are managed, except for one particular agency, and I know the person who runs it and trust that it is not involuntary. In that particular case, the manager has helped various girls get set up as independents if they want to.

I think the majority of us are already doing a few, positive things like ECCIE and p411 getting effective age verification processes for providers to keep underage girls from getting on here. That was the big reason I got p411 in the first place.

I know this one is a little controversial (maybe, I don't know) but I've stopped going to AMPs. I'm just not comfortable with them at all. I am certainly not saying that they are based on trafficking or anything like that, but I just don't feel confident that they aren't, and I want to err on the side of being as sure as I can be.

I also try and see the women who are a little older, a little more personally confident and assertive, and more educated. This could be completely wrong, but I have a hard time seeing several of the girls I am most comfortable with accepting abusive or involuntary management.

As far as the legal side, I'm not sure there's a lot to be done. I'm not exactly finding a pro-hobby lobbyist and giving them a bunch of on-the-record money, and I'm not sure it would make a difference if we did.

[bradjbeale]

If Ted Cruz runs on a pro-prostitution platform, that crazy bastard just might get my vote (not that it would matter, but still).

[daty/o]

First off, thanks for the comments, gentlemen. I welcome your input. In fact, I put this in Co-Ed because I welcome ALL input. I would like to think the term "independent" , when used by a provider, refers to their thinking as well as their status. Ladies, you have a tenable position here; chime in. Part of the reason for this "rant" is society's continued tendency to label all prostitutes as victims. And while some, no doubt, are, from my perspective, a large percentage, perhaps the majority, are not. Society would do well to focus on saving those that wished to be saved. To that end, I would like the provider perspective, as well.

To further clarify:
It has always been my position that I will see a provider regardless of whether she is managed or not. That may sound antithetical to my original post, but it is born out of deference to the provider to be competent to maintain her own affairs. Perhaps that is naive on my part. In the interest of simplification, let's say that I have no problem with a voluntary "manager" , but no tolerance whatsoever for an involuntary "pimp". And it is to that issue that I would think that we, as members of the community, would be best equipped to be proactive. The question is how?

[TinMan]

It's naive to think you can differentiate between voluntary and involuntary. You know most ladies are good actresses BCD. Why wouldn't that carry over into convincing you they have control over their affairs?

IF the matter concerns you, you're going to have to lose the naïveté and make a choice about where you draw the line.

[Grace Preston]

We don't need a President who runs on a "Pro-Prostitution" stance. To be blunt, prostitution, with the exception of the human trafficking angle, is NOT a Federal crime, it is a state crime.

What we need is the decriminalization of prostitution. I'm against legalization strictly because that implies that we would be required to register.. and a lot of ladies are not willing to go on the record as a sex worker. With decrim-- when a lady is victimized, she has the confidence to go to the authorities without the fear of repercussions from law enforcement. So many crimes get underreported due to the fear of the "what if". So many pimps use the threat of jail in order to keep their ladies in line. And we women are often marginalized in the event that we are attacked, beaten, or raped.... we are often given the side eye and the assumption we "asked for it".

There are other clues besides age and education level that would suggest to me that perhaps there is management behind the scenes. Feel free to PM me, I don't wish to start a public shitstorm about the issue.

[Grace Preston]

We don't need a President who runs on a "Pro-Prostitution" stance. To be blunt, prostitution, with the exception of the human trafficking angle, is NOT a Federal crime, it is a state crime.

What we need is the decriminalization of prostitution. I'm against legalization strictly because that implies that we would be required to register.. and a lot of ladies are not willing to go on the record as a sex worker. With decrim-- when a lady is victimized, she has the confidence to go to the authorities without the fear of repercussions from law enforcement. So many crimes get underreported due to the fear of the "what if". So many pimps use the threat of jail in order to keep their ladies in line. And we women are often marginalized in the event that we are attacked, beaten, or raped.... we are often given the side eye and the assumption we "asked for it".

There are other clues besides age and education level that would suggest to me that perhaps there is management behind the scenes. Feel free to PM me, I don't wish to start a public shitstorm about the issue.

[DFWClubgoer]

Decriminalize than providers can take control and pimps can go to jail.

[Prolongus]

National Organization of the Reform of Provider Laws...or Prostitution laws?
Decriminalize, I believe is the best way. Keep government out of it. They'd just find a way to prematurely jack with it.

[str8.2.bbbj]

The reasoning behind why prostitution (along with cocaine) is illegal is purely racial. Prostitution was an accepted vice in this country until it was found that black men were profiting from it. You've all seen in westerns and documentaries how the saloon/brothel was the place to hang out. Prostitution was Americana... especially in the South and West.

Unless it's drug-related, 95% if the time it's black guys who are turning these ladies out. Most of these ladies won't admit that (and they're under no obligation to do so, of course), but that's how it is. So you can try to lock up every pimp or whatever, but that course will lead to a significant decrease in new talent over time--as well as the decrease in lots of established talent.

The issue with prostitution, as with everything else, is government. A ruling class that everyone knows takes part in an activity/vice, enriches themselves (thru fines, fees, incarceration) by "denying" the general public the liberty to take part in an activity/vice. This is a liberty issue. If you truly owned yourself, you could do with your body, time, and/or money as you pleased--which i fully endorse as long as it does not intrude on the next person's liberty.

This is why I have infinitely more respect for prostitutes and drug dealers over any politician, cop, or soldier. The hookers and drug dealers only trade in what is theirs to sell. The politicians, cops, judges, and soldiers create and enforce arbitrary "demands" (called laws) created to enrich the ruling class and subjugate their neighbors.

And before anybody comes with that "the troops protect our freedoms" bullshit, 1.) There are just over 100 MILLION gun owners in the US. They own around 400 MILLION guns of various sorts. That means that essentially every man, woman, and child in the US is armed. 2.) We aren't free.

[daty/o]

Originally Posted by str8.2.bbbj

The reasoning behind why prostitution (along with cocaine) is illegal is purely racial. Prostitution was an accepted vice in this country until it was found that black men were profiting from it.

Jessie? Is that you? There are less holes in the Dallas Hobby than that argument, but I respect your right to believe that. To be clear, my issue is not with managers. Of any color. Trust me, I am a devout feminist. So much so that I could be lesbian, but it is obvious that some providers lack the tcb skills to manage the business end. But that management has to be under the control of the provider or it is just another form of slavery. If pimps of any race have a bad rep, it is less likely from what they do than how they do it.

[str8.2.bbbj]

That was quite a large circle of nothing. Surely with so many holes, a better argument could have been formulated.