The GOP shows it's stupidity once again.....

[UnderConstruction]

Originally Posted by Budman

You need to read what I wrote. If someone is working and needs some assistance then welfare is appropriate. I never said all and the republicans do not advocate cutting all welfare. This is another example of you, as a lib, spreading false info about what conservatives mean or want. Welfare fraud is a problem. Some people need it and are doing something to improve their situation. Many are content to sit on their ass and live off of welfare forever. Fuck them.

It's not as big of a problem as Republicans think. They thought all welfare recipients were drug users and the few states that have implemented drug checks have found that isn't the case. I'm not spreading false info. Anyone can go see how Republicans in Congress vote. It's there for anyone to see. They cut social and welfare any chance they get. Forget the military waste or any other waste, they cut help from real Americans.

[Budman]

Originally Posted by shanm

I disagree. Having a loan for your education is no different than taking a loan for your house; you wont, unless you can definitely pay it back. There is no guarantee that youll be able to get a decent job after college and even if there is, theres no reason for you to start your working career with a six figure indebtment already on your back. That is what puts people off from attending college in the first place. People who buy a house or a car have a steady income and they have to PROVE that they can pay all of it back. How come there is no similar requirement for student loans?
Although I partially agree with what you said about college not being a requirement to be successful, I would say that times are changing and it is, increasingly so. And no question, it increases your chances of finding better employment. Education should be provided freely because it helps our economy by making our resources (people) better and smarter, and that is only a reward to the country as a whole. if you wonder what that would be like, take a look at germany. Education is free there and their population is all the better for it. They have a better economy than ours and they are leading europe in just about everything.
I do agree with you on bringing back shop classes and teaching people trades, that is equally important, especially because we have a lot of people that just arent smart enough to warrant a college education. College shouldnt be a requirement but it should be an option to anyone and everyone regardless of their wealth.

So going to college doesn't guarantee a good job so you should get to go for free. Is that what you are advocating? College is like anything else, if you want it bad enough you will figure out a way to get it. Working your ass off is a damn good way to start. Where does it end on the free shit? FYI, it's not fucking free. Someone has to pay for it and in this case it is the tax payer. Personal responsibility is going down the drain right now. People need to quit looking for the government to take care of every damn thing in their life. I want free college, I want free health care, I want welfare, I want, I want, I fucking want. Well if you want something then get off your ass and work for it. I am sick of hearing how the government can provide you all of your basic needs. I want the government to a few basic things and then stay the fuck out of my life. Being taxed to death qualifies as a fucking intrusion into my life. I ask "underconstruction" where the free shit ends. He says with healthcare. I guess not. Is it college? If you get free healthcare and free college then that's it? That's bullshit and you know it. There will always be the next thing that someone wants or needs and the libs will want the government to provide it.

[Budman]

Originally Posted by UnderConstruction

It's not as big of a problem as Republicans think. They thought all welfare recipients were drug users and the few states that have implemented drug checks have found that isn't the case. I'm not spreading false info. Anyone can go see how Republicans in Congress vote. It's there for anyone to see. They cut social and welfare any chance they get. Forget the military waste or any other waste, they cut help from real Americans.

Bullshit. Welfare recipients need to be doing something to improve their situation and get off of the government dole. Having a drug test should be just part of the gig. Going to school or working should also be part of the gig. You shouldn't get to sit on your ass and eat bon bons all day on the tax payers dime. Fuck you. Regardless of where the waste is it needs to stop.

[shanm]

Originally Posted by Budman

So going to college doesn't guarantee a good job so you should get to go for free. Is that what you are advocating? College is like anything else, if you want it bad enough you will figure out a way to get it. Working your ass off is a damn good way to start. Where does it end on the free shit? FYI, it's not fucking free. Someone has to pay for it and in this case it is the tax payer. Personal responsibility is going down the drain right now. People need to quit looking for the government to take care of every damn thing in their life. I want free college, I want free health care, I want welfare, I want, I want, I fucking want. Well if you want something then get off your ass and work for it. I am sick of hearing how the government can provide you all of your basic needs. I want the government to a few basic things and then stay the fuck out of my life. Being taxed to death qualifies as a fucking intrusion into my life. I ask "underconstruction" where the free shit ends. He says with healthcare. I guess not. Is it college? If you get free healthcare and free college then that's it? That's bullshit and you know it. There will always be the next thing that someone wants or needs and the libs will want the government to provide it.

Or.... you know, you could bring down the cost of education so that institutions charging 50 grand a year dont get to make massive profits off the necessity to educate our country? and the taxpayers dont contribute as much? its funny you would mention the taxpayers burden when only 4% of our budget goes to education. Compared to 22% that goes to military spending. All of you republicans seem to be eager to start another war but you dont give a shit about what goes on inside the country. Or do you think that money doesnt come out of your "precious tax dollars"?
tell me something, what exactly would you want the governments role to be? To go fuck with other countries and leave their own to a free-for-all? I would think that the provision of services that ensure our safety (healthcare) and our progress (education) should fall snugly under what the government should be sponsoring, instead of useless wars that more than half the country does not agree with. I am all for giving the private sector and free market a chance until it fails. And it certainly has in this case. Or we wouldnt have the highest costs for healthcare in the world and education costs that rank second in the world. Healthcare is not only the most expensive, its also the least effective. Tell me again how logic runs through this

[IIFFOFRDB]

Originally Posted by shanm

Or.... you know, you could bring down the cost of education so that institutions charging 50 grand a year dont get to make massive profits off the necessity to educate our country? and the taxpayers dont contribute as much? its funny you would mention the taxpayers burden when only 4% of our budget goes to education. Compared to 22% that goes to military spending. All of you republicans seem to be eager to start another war but you dont give a shit about what goes on inside the country. Or do you think that money doesnt come out of your "precious tax dollars"?
tell me something, what exactly would you want the governments role to be? To go fuck with other countries and leave their own to a free-for-all? I would think that the provision of services that ensure our safety (healthcare) and our progress (education) should fall snugly under what the government should be sponsoring, instead of useless wars that more than half the country does not agree with. I am all for giving the private sector and free market a chance until it fails. And it certainly has in this case. Or we wouldnt have the highest costs for healthcare in the world and education costs that rank second in the world. Healthcare is not only the most expensive, its also the least effective. Tell me again how logic runs through this

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by shanm

Or.... you know, you could bring down the cost of education so that institutions charging 50 grand a year dont get to make massive profits off the necessity to educate our country? and the taxpayers dont contribute as much? its funny you would mention the taxpayers burden when only 4% of our budget goes to education. Compared to 22% that goes to military spending. All of you republicans seem to be eager to start another war but you dont give a shit about what goes on inside the country. Or do you think that money doesnt come out of your "precious tax dollars"?
tell me something, what exactly would you want the governments role to be? To go fuck with other countries and leave their own to a free-for-all? I would think that the provision of services that ensure our safety (healthcare) and our progress (education) should fall snugly under what the government should be sponsoring, instead of useless wars that more than half the country does not agree with. I am all for giving the private sector and free market a chance until it fails. And it certainly has in this case. Or we wouldnt have the highest costs for healthcare in the world and education costs that rank second in the world. Healthcare is not only the most expensive, its also the least effective. Tell me again how logic runs through this

You're an ignorant jackass, shamman. You and your ilk preach how you are all for a "free education" for everyone, shamman, but then you hypocritically chide the government for the money it contracts to spend on the GI Bill for the men and women who chose to serve their country in exchange for an education. You and your ilk preach you are for "free healthcare" for everyone, shamman, but then you hypocritically chide the government for the money it contracts to spend on the healthcare for the men and women who chose to serve their country in exchange for healthcare.

[Budman]

Originally Posted by shanm

Or.... you know, you could bring down the cost of education so that institutions charging 50 grand a year dont get to make massive profits off the necessity to educate our country? and the taxpayers dont contribute as much? its funny you would mention the taxpayers burden when only 4% of our budget goes to education. Compared to 22% that goes to military spending. All of you republicans seem to be eager to start another war but you dont give a shit about what goes on inside the country. Or do you think that money doesnt come out of your "precious tax dollars"?
tell me something, what exactly would you want the governments role to be? To go fuck with other countries and leave their own to a free-for-all? I would think that the provision of services that ensure our safety (healthcare) and our progress (education) should fall snugly under what the government should be sponsoring, instead of useless wars that more than half the country does not agree with. I am all for giving the private sector and free market a chance until it fails. And it certainly has in this case. Or we wouldnt have the highest costs for healthcare in the world and education costs that rank second in the world. Healthcare is not only the most expensive, its also the least effective. Tell me again how logic runs through this

Your statement that half the country disagrees with the war is hindsight. At the time we went to war the overwhelming majority of this country agreed with the war. You and many libs want to use 20/20 hindsight to support your position. How about this. The majority of Americans did not want obamacare and yet you support it. This is not 20/20 hindsight. Your ilk were all for the war when it was popular and as soon as the tide turns just a bit you are ready to cut and run. Now the libs want to claim they never were for the war. It was just because Bush tricked us. He lied. You need to pull your head out of the sand. Once we are in a war we damn well better be in it for the long haul. There were a lot of things that were done that I disagree with but going to war not one of them. IMO we should have taken control of the fucking oil in Iraq and used the revenue to offset the cost. Once our cost had been recouped we could have turned the oil revenue back to the Iraqis'.

The rest of your post is the same shit different day. It doesn't warrant a response.

[shanm]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

You're an ignorant jackass, shamman. You and your ilk preach how you are all for a "free education" for everyone, shamman, but then you hypocritically chide the government for the money it contracts to spend on the GI Bill for the men and women who chose to serve their country in exchange for an education. You and your ilk preach you are for "free healthcare" for everyone, shamman, but then you hypocritically chide the government for the money it contracts to spend on the healthcare for the men and women who chose to serve their country in exchange for healthcare.

IB wanker proves that he is a mindless drone-bot by copying and pasting his comment twice in the same post, and just changing one word. What a loser! how can you guys claim any credibility when this idiot is on your side?

And if you must know, dick cheneys internet-bot, veteran education benefits make up only 2% of our military budget. so tell me, how does a military expenditure cut imply a drastic decrease in a component thats just 2% of the overall budget? You stupid ignorant drone-bot. I guess its true that machines cant be smarter than men, especially a machine kinked by Mr. Cheney.

[UnderConstruction]

Originally Posted by Budman

Your statement that half the country disagrees with the war is hindsight. At the time we went to war the overwhelming majority of this country agreed with the war. You and many libs want to use 20/20 hindsight to support your position. How about this. The majority of Americans did not want obamacare and yet you support it. This is not 20/20 hindsight. Your ilk were all for the war when it was popular and as soon as the tide turns just a bit you are ready to cut and run. Now the libs want to claim they never were for the war. It was just because Bush tricked us. He lied. You need to pull your head out of the sand. Once we are in a war we damn well better be in it for the long haul. There were a lot of things that were done that I disagree with but going to war not one of them. IMO we should have taken control of the fucking oil in Iraq and used the revenue to offset the cost. Once our cost had been recouped we could have turned the oil revenue back to the Iraqis'.

The rest of your post is the same shit different day. It doesn't warrant a response.

Brilliant. Invade a sovereign nation. Then steal money to pay for the invasion of said sovereign nation. From same said sovereign nation's own oil money. Brilliant. There's just no other word. The overwhelming majority of this country believed in the war because we were told things that weren't fucking true. And as for your point on Obamacare, what the majority likes or dislikes means dick to me. A majority probably thought slavery was OK too at some point in our past. Do I need to support that?

[Budman]

Originally Posted by UnderConstruction

Brilliant. Invade a sovereign nation. Then steal money to pay for the invasion of said sovereign nation. From same said sovereign nation's own oil money. Brilliant. There's just no other word. The overwhelming majority of this country believed in the war because we were told things that weren't fucking true. And as for your point on Obamacare, what the majority likes or dislikes means dick to me. A majority probably thought slavery was OK too at some point in our past. Do I need to support that?

Back to the Bush lied bullshit. Damn near every intelligence agency in the world believed Sadaam had WMD's. Clinton believed he had WMD's. He said he had WMD's and yet Bush lied. You are hopeless.

[shanm]

Originally Posted by Budman

Your statement that half the country disagrees with the war is hindsight. At the time we went to war the overwhelming majority of this country agreed with the war. You and many libs want to use 20/20 hindsight to support your position. How about this. The majority of Americans did not want obamacare and yet you support it. This is not 20/20 hindsight. Your ilk were all for the war when it was popular and as soon as the tide turns just a bit you are ready to cut and run. Now the libs want to claim they never were for the war. It was just because Bush tricked us. He lied. You need to pull your head out of the sand. Once we are in a war we damn well better be in it for the long haul. There were a lot of things that were done that I disagree with but going to war not one of them. IMO we should have taken control of the fucking oil in Iraq and used the revenue to offset the cost. Once our cost had been recouped we could have turned the oil revenue back to the Iraqis'.

The rest of your post is the same shit different day. It doesn't warrant a response.

so, essentially what you're saying is, we cant learn from our mistakes? Instead we should blunder on and repeat the experiment. As soon as I point out the budget we spend for foreign activities is about 5 times higher than we spend on our own basic education, you flip out, without offering any substantive argument to the contrary. Instead you point to public opinion before the war, as if that has any relevance to it. Typical stupid fucking republican. Youre fucking off your rocker, mate. Dont know why I assumed you were any different than that wanker friend of yours.

[UnderConstruction]

The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much it is whether we provide enough for those who have little.

Franklin D Roosevelt

[UnderConstruction]

Originally Posted by Budman

Back to the Bush lied bullshit. Damn near every intelligence agency in the world believed Sadaam had WMD's. Clinton believed he had WMD's. He said he had WMD's and yet Bush lied. You are hopeless.

Was it a lie or wasn't it? I don't give a shit what the intelligence community thought or said. It was never true. Something you once thought was true but ends up being a lie, is still a lie. It was never true. Whether you meant it to be or not, it's still a lie.

[shanm]

Originally Posted by Budman

Back to the Bush lied bullshit. Damn near every intelligence agency in the world believed Sadaam had WMD's. Clinton believed he had WMD's. He said he had WMD's and yet Bush lied. You are hopeless.

And Bush did lie, he did cheat. He played on the emotions of a loss-stricken country to garner support for a war he knew was bullshit. Theres a reason conspiracy theories exist (im not saying they are true, but they exist). They exist because of the extreme lack of transparency that was evident throughout bushs presidency.

[Budman]

Originally Posted by shanm

so, essentially what you're saying is, we cant learn from our mistakes? Instead we should blunder on and repeat the experiment. As soon as I point out the budget we spend for foreign activities is about 5 times higher than we spend on our own basic education, you flip out, without offering any substantive argument to the contrary. Instead you point to public opinion before the war, as if that has any relevance to it. Typical stupid fucking republican. Youre fucking off your rocker, mate. Dont know why I assumed you were any different than that wanker friend of yours.

You are the one that said that the majority on the country was against the war. You were lying and now that I pointed it out you want to whine. Grow the fuck up.