Haggling, Negotiating Pricing, Gifts and Being A Cheap Bastard.... does it work?

[watchoutthegameisrigged]

I don't haggle - but I also don't tip. The lady has told me what she thinks is fair and if I agree, we see each other. But I do look for ways to personalize our date a bit. A lady just left me 30 minutes ago on an outcall. I noted her favorite wine and had some chilled and waiting for her. I also figured she might enjoy some soft jazz in the background and figured right. She knew that before hand and was impressed and her appreciation for those details definitely showed in our session (plus she was so impressed at the attention to detail, she brought us delicious cupcakes to eat in bed, a definite first that impressed me).

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by JayceeRivers

I forgot to add, Haggling and trying to find discounts and specials. If it is asked of me (the rare times I do accept) I am never as good as I would have been otherwise. Particularly because I am liable to book a second date on that day to make up for the discounted date. Generally it does put a damper on the mood and will bring out insecurities in the most confident of ladies. Nothing ruins the mood more than thinking "am I only worth xxx amount? Am I doing a good or bad thing for taking this discounted date? How will I decline him in the future?"
Discounted dates also come with the burden of not being able to provide the ideal atmosphere I prefer. I want to have chilled wine waiting, possibly a small platter of fruit with optional whipped cream. Lit candles. A new music set purchased with him in mind, a new piece of lingerie debuted for him alone (probably why my lingerie has overrun my closet) perfectly manicured nails and toes. ect. I have to cut costs to accommodate and the mood suffers for this.

I appreciate your honesty. This is why I don't haggle with providers. Although I will haggle buying a car, etc. With providers, if you want more than a warm fuck hole, whether they admit it or not, often performance suffers. They mentally only give you "B" service.

Now, as for all of the other stuff, wine, fruit plate, new lingerie, jazz set, etc. (I'll give you the mani/pedi, just regular upkeep imo): Are you doing that for me or for you? Cause if you are doing it for me that is money wasted. I'd rather you lower your prices $50 or $100 than spend it on what I'll call extraneous catering and ambiance. All that stuff does little to nothing for me.

[sketchball82]

The only time I've ever negotiated in the past was for overnights. It's happened twice. In both occurrences, I was mid a one-hour session and didn't want that hour to end, so I asked if they had any clients after me ("no"). In both cases, the overnight session was fantastic, so I do not believe it affected the session.

The first time was like a week before my ex-wife moved out after we had decided to get divorced. I asked the provider to accompany me to dinner, off clock, because I didn't want to be alone, and since she didn't have any friends in the area or any appointments, she happily agreed. As she drove me back to the hotel to get my car, I brought up an overnight. She said she normally charges $1800.00, and I told her that was out of my budget, and she asked me what I could do. We eventually settled on $500.00 (plus the $300 I had already given her for the hour appointment before). She was quite happy. We then went back to her room, smoked up (normally not my thing but it was hers, and I've always wanted to have sex high...), and then we had sex several times. By the end, mini-sketch was limp; I was tired, but she kept asking me to fuck her. I have no clue if she took pity on me or what, but we still keep in contact via text even though I haven't seen her since, and that was three years ago.

The second time was a guys trip with some RL friends nine months ago. I saw a hooker. She was fun. I asked her if she wanted to spend a day with me like two days later. I wanted to take her to a couple comedians and dinner, with the boys to make them jealous. She thought it sounded fun. Even though her advertised overnight rate was $4000.00, she asked me how much I would pay. I offered $500, plus $1000.00 at the casino to spend how she sees fit and she can keep all the profit. She agreed. Naturally, she lost it all, lol. But it was totally worth it, and she had fun.

In both cases, I had a fantastic time and do not think the negotiation affected the date, although I do admit both providers were open to negotiation. I respect the fact that some providers may be offended if I tried to negotiate and they are free to not see me if I try, but to me telling "I'll be offended if you negotiate" is just as overly-idealistic and out of touch with reality as having a policy that says something like "Boys wear blue; girls wear pink--if you show up in anything other than a baby blue polo shirt, we can't see each other." I think a more appropriate tact for the ladies would be identifying if this is a greed issue or a confidence issue.

If it's a confidence issue that someone thinks you aren't worth $X.00, I have a lot of sympathy, but I also note there are a lot of things a provider could allow herself to be insecure about, and part of your job is learned to accept and even be proud of those insecurities. It could just be he's on a budget, or indeed he may not think you're worth that price. But don't allow yourself to feel bad because someone is negotiating. Negotiating is so natural for a lot of people: it's nothing to be offended about. You should take that a a mark of pride that people are willing to negotiate for you instead of have X off backpage for the price they offered you: they find you the better provider. So you should be honored, even if their offer is below what you would normally accept.

If it's a greed issue, I have no sympathy: learn economics and your real worth. If you identify yourself as a "premium brand," then question if your reviews truly reflect you as a premium brand. If they don't, then you have a decision to make. You can keep trying to charge Rolex prices for your Casio watch and go out of business, or you can admit to yourself that you aren't Rolex and make a successful business selling Casio watches. The choice is yours. If those reviews do mark you as a premium brand, then understand everyone always wants a Rolex for cheap, say no thanks to the negotiation and move on.

[atlcomedy]

Great post - Sketchball

Too be clear there is a big difference big difference negotiating overnights, trips and "arrangements" than calling and haggling over an hourly rate with a woman you've never seen before. Apples and oranges. The former is pretty normal and not perceived negatively if done politely; the latter no so well...

[Indirah.Raven]

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

Great post - Sketchball

Too be clear there is a big difference big difference negotiating overnights, trips and "arrangements" than calling and haggling over an hourly rate with a woman you've never seen before. Apples and oranges. The former is pretty normal and not perceived negatively if done politely; the latter no so well...

The latter is the main reason why I no longer offer 1 hour arrangements. I would receive calls from men that tried to haggle my rate and would get upset when I told them I could not honor their request.

Extended engagements are a different matter. There is possibly some room for negotiation in this situation (depends on the provider and her client)

[JayceeRivers]

Originally Posted by sketchball82

In both cases, I had a fantastic time and do not think the negotiation affected the date, although I do admit both providers were open to negotiation. I respect the fact that some providers may be offended if I tried to negotiate and they are free to not see me if I try, but to me telling "I'll be offended if you negotiate" is just as overly-idealistic and out of touch with reality as having a policy that says something like "Boys wear blue; girls wear pink--if you show up in anything other than a baby blue polo shirt, we can't see each other." I think a more appropriate tact for the ladies would be identifying if this is a greed issue or a confidence issue.

If it's a confidence issue that someone thinks you aren't worth $X.00, I have a lot of sympathy, but I also note there are a lot of things a provider could allow herself to be insecure about, and part of your job is learned to accept and even be proud of those insecurities. It could just be he's on a budget, or indeed he may not think you're worth that price. But don't allow yourself to feel bad because someone is negotiating. Negotiating is so natural for a lot of people: it's nothing to be offended about. You should take that a a mark of pride that people are willing to negotiate for you instead of have X off backpage for the price they offered you: they find you the better provider. So you should be honored, even if their offer is below what you would normally accept.

If it's a greed issue, I have no sympathy: learn economics and your real worth. If you identify yourself as a "premium brand," then question if your reviews truly reflect you as a premium brand. If they don't, then you have a decision to make. You can keep trying to charge Rolex prices for your Casio watch and go out of business, or you can admit to yourself that you aren't Rolex and make a successful business selling Casio watches. The choice is yours. If those reviews do mark you as a premium brand, then understand everyone always wants a Rolex for cheap, say no thanks to the negotiation and move on.

I can very much appreciate and empathize a budget and yet desiring of something(someone) specific. The thing is though, when I am on a budget I browse within my bracket and select from there. I wait until I can afford what I want by saving up, if I want it that badly.

One cannot choose how they feel. They can, however, choose how to react to that feeling. Someone attempting to negotiate can be offending. That does not mean the lady needs to be aggressive or lash out in anger or resentment. If she accepts the date, it does not mean she should purposefully attempt to diminish her skills for that date.

When a lady chooses her rates (most ladies) evaluate several things. Supply and demand, if they wish to be high traffic or low, overhead costs, what they intend to offer (menu), and the sort of gentleman they wish to attract. Trust me, the lady most likely put in hours, weeks, and sometimes months into trying to find the right donation to accommodate her needs.

It is perfectly fine and normally completely non offensive to inquire about a discount or special. It is the gentleman that react aggressively, angry, or abrasive when they are turned down, that often leave a bad taste in ones mouth. Often ladies feel bullied or guilted into giving a cheaper donation.

I disagree in regards to accepting ones insecurities being part of her job. Our job is to provide a pleasurable experience. If we have insecurities it is best to not offer them up on the gentleman's time. I also believe that if one is insecure about something they should work to find security. If they don't like their body, exercise and diet. If they feel cheap, raise their donation. If they feel used and like a wet hole, target a new audience.

[MaxiMilyen]

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

Great post - Sketchball

Too be clear there is a big difference big difference negotiating overnights, trips and "arrangements" than calling and haggling over an hourly rate with a woman you've never seen before. Apples and oranges. The former is pretty normal and not perceived negatively if done politely; the latter no so well...

BINGO!

[savak]

i dont like haggling or negotiating either.

in the past when discussing grandfathering me in, i found the conversation with the provider boggling down to haggling and it became a total turn off and was like "never mind".

i stick to and stay loyal to the providers who take care of me.

[sketchball82]

Originally Posted by JayceeRivers

I disagree in regards to accepting ones insecurities being part of her job. Our job is to provide a pleasurable experience. If we have insecurities it is best to not offer them up on the gentleman's time. I also believe that if one is insecure about something they should work to find security. If they don't like their body, exercise and diet. If they feel cheap, raise their donation. If they feel used and like a wet hole, target a new audience.

Fair enough. But I can't control the way you feel. I mean, a provider that thinks she's a dirty blonde may be offended if I tell her she has the most beautiful light brunette hair I've ever seen. She might be offended by telling her she has the "sexiest curves I've ever seen" because she ideally wants to be an ironing board. My point is I can try to keep you happy, but ultimately it's on you to actually be happy.

I think to a large degree that extends to the discussion we're having. It's not my responsibility or within my ability to make you feel secure or to take an innocent discussion as such. If you want to take it personally, you will. All I can do is be genuinely nice and a good guy. I don't really see how negotiating contradicts being nice and good, and further I think its impractical to ask people not to ask you an innocent question (can we do $x.00 instead of $y.00?) because that question might offend you under certain circumstances.

Also note: I'm being a bit of a devil's advocate. I don't negotiate hourly rates, mostly because you ladies have spoken, and I won't do it out respect for the overwhelming majority of you that don't want me to. But make no mistake, that means I'm not giving people my business that I wanted to, but so be it. I'm just trying to say I understand those that find negotiation beneficial. I just don't see what the harm is in an innocent discussion. I guess it just goes back to philosophy, and we're apparently at different ends.

[Luvs2Purrr]

It's very rare to find in and out of the hobby that a hobbyist brings a provider a gift.

But I have had a couple that would bring....candles, wine, flowers, gift cards; and I do think that it makes me feel that they went out of their way just for me and the visit is definitely different in some ways.

[JayceeRivers]

Originally Posted by sketchball82

Fair enough. But I can't control the way you feel. I mean, a provider that thinks she's a dirty blonde may be offended if I tell her she has the most beautiful light brunette hair I've ever seen. She might be offended by telling her she has the "sexiest curves I've ever seen" because she ideally wants to be an ironing board. My point is I can try to keep you happy, but ultimately it's on you to actually be happy.

I think to a large degree that extends to the discussion we're having. It's not my responsibility or within my ability to make you feel secure or to take an innocent discussion as such. If you want to take it personally, you will. All I can do is be genuinely nice and a good guy. I don't really see how negotiating contradicts being nice and good, and further I think its impractical to ask people not to ask you an innocent question (can we do $x.00 instead of $y.00?) because that question might offend you under certain circumstances.

Also note: I'm being a bit of a devil's advocate. I don't negotiate hourly rates, mostly because you ladies have spoken, and I won't do it out respect for the overwhelming majority of you that don't want me to. But make no mistake, that means I'm not giving people my business that I wanted to, but so be it. I'm just trying to say I understand those that find negotiation beneficial. I just don't see what the harm is in an innocent discussion. I guess it just goes back to philosophy, and we're apparently at different ends.

The thing is, this is a two way road. Consider for a moment with me, the feelings gentlemen have on "upcharges" By your own statement you could either hold a hypocritical stance and say no she should not upcharge but it is okay for the gentleman to negotiate. OR it is impolite of the lady to not already have a firm statement of what she wanted for the date in advance.

If it is alright for the gentleman to negotiate than it should be perfectly acceptable to upcharge. After all if he does not wish to spend the extra he can simply offer a polite no thank you.

I don't upcharge myself. I prefer to ignore the business part of our arrangement as much as possible. It allows for a more passionate and spontaneous date for me.

My return devils argument and question is simply.... If you feel it is right to negotiate do you feel it is appropriate for a lady to upcharge?

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by JayceeRivers

The thing is, this is a two way road. Consider for a moment with me, the feelings gentlemen have on "upcharges" By your own statement you could either hold a hypocritical stance and say no she should not upcharge but it is okay for the gentleman to negotiate. OR it is impolite of the lady to not already have a firm statement of what she wanted for the date in advance.

If it is alright for the gentleman to negotiate than it should be perfectly acceptable to upcharge. After all if he does not wish to spend the extra he can simply offer a polite no thank you.

I don't upcharge myself. I prefer to ignore the business part of our arrangement as much as possible. It allows for a more passionate and spontaneous date for me.

My return devils argument and question is simply.... If you feel it is right to negotiate do you feel it is appropriate for a lady to upcharge?

I don't think practice of upcharges as the term is often used is a good analogy for the practice of negotiation.

Negotiating is offering $45,000 for a car with a $50,000 sticker.

Upcharging is saying at the time the car being delivered, "oh by the way, if you want an engine in that car it will be an extra $20K"

In many markets goods and services, negotiating is perfectly acceptable. In very few markets are upcharges viewed as a positive. No consumer or buyer likes surprises.

[SA Angel]

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

In many markets goods and services, negotiating is perfectly acceptable. In very few markets are upcharges viewed as a positive. No consumer or buyer likes surprises.

I think there is acceptable and unacceptable upcharging. First, what I find unacceptable is advertising that you are GFE and charging extra for the things that are part of a gfe experience (DFK and BBBJ).

On average, most providers upcharge for greek and most men find this a acceptable upcharge. I personally don't but then again I do require my gentlemen to foot the cost of the incall since I see one person a day (generally about 80.00) so it all comes out in the wash.

Fetishes such as golden showers normally require a higher fee as well. If the client is the receiver I've found some are too bashful to ask until we are already in session.

[sketchball82]

Originally Posted by JayceeRivers

The thing is, this is a two way road. Consider for a moment with me, the feelings gentlemen have on "upcharges" By your own statement you could either hold a hypocritical stance and say no she should not upcharge but it is okay for the gentleman to negotiate. OR it is impolite of the lady to not already have a firm statement of what she wanted for the date in advance.

If it is alright for the gentleman to negotiate than it should be perfectly acceptable to upcharge. After all if he does not wish to spend the extra he can simply offer a polite no thank you.

I don't upcharge myself. I prefer to ignore the business part of our arrangement as much as possible. It allows for a more passionate and spontaneous date for me.

My return devils argument and question is simply.... If you feel it is right to negotiate do you feel it is appropriate for a lady to upcharge?

It depends on what you mean by upcharge.

If you mean advertise $150, set the appointment, and then tell your client you'll only see them for $300 during the second call, then yeah not ok.

If if you mean attempting to re-negotiate by spicing up your end of the deal? I'm fine with that. Hell.. if we settled on a price but as we started fucking the provider said, "You know what. I really want the $300 or better yet $350. How about I give you Greek and instead of doing $250, we do $350?"... then I would probably say sounds great. I have no problem with a lady itemizing her services so long as she's clear about what she's offering.

If we negotiate a rate for GFE, I'm going to be pretty pissed if the provider actually gives me a cold experience and then says I'll DFK you for another $30. That's because there was some inherent dishonesty, and I would feel mislead.

It may be the lawyer in me, but I'm okay with renegotiating if both parties agree. It's not okay to just renege on your part of the deal because after one party performs you think you deserve more or intentionally mislead the other party though.

I don't see any hypocrisy in this at all though.

[JayceeRivers]

Originally Posted by sketchball82

It depends on what you mean by upcharge.

If you mean advertise $150, set the appointment, and then tell your client you'll only see them for $300 during the second call, then yeah not ok.

If if you mean attempting to re-negotiate by spicing up your end of the deal? I'm fine with that. Hell.. if we settled on a price but as we started fucking the provider said, "You know what. I really want the $300 or better yet $350. How about I give you Greek and instead of doing $250, we do $350?"... then I would probably say sounds great. I have no problem with a lady itemizing her services so long as she's clear about what she's offering.

If we negotiate a rate for GFE, I'm going to be pretty pissed if the provider actually gives me a cold experience and then says I'll DFK you for another $30. That's because there was some inherent dishonesty, and I would feel mislead.

It may be the lawyer in me, but I'm okay with renegotiating if both parties agree. It's not okay to just renege on your part of the deal because after one party performs you think you deserve more or intentionally mislead the other party though.

I don't see any hypocrisy in this at all though.

Well played my friend. You have my respect.