Provider Advice for New Providers in the Welcome Wagon ?

[CarolineDavenport]

Originally Posted by citizen44

If all the providers in the $300-$500 range were getting as much business as they could stand, with little to no effort, you would see far less churn in providers. You wouldn't hear the Dallas Posse talking about the need to constantly travel to seem fresh to keep demand up. You wouldn't see providers like Alyssa, Caroline, etc working at developing brand awareness and constantly communicating on here in threADs. Hell, you wouldn't even see the $160 Latina crew constantly switching agencies to seem fresh.

No one disputes that there are a lot of guys for which dropping $300-$500 once or twice a month doesn't phase them. What there is not, is enough of those guys to keep a large amount of higher priced ladies who just sit back and think business will find them with out marketing and other sales enhancing strategies. A small percent of providers will do well at that level, but most are too lazy to do what it takes to make it work. You need more than a pretty face and a pussy to survive at that level.

Most women who come in and go quickly to that level without building a base at lower levels to pay the bills will flame out. Don't expect the successful high range providers on here to bend over backwards to help out the new girls to jump into their price range. The single largest threat to their demand is our ADHD like tendencies to constantly chase the variety of new pretty faces. New girl comes in and goes straight to $300, guys want to go after new pretty face but decline to pay high dollars for unproven rep, and then call existing higher priced successful providers. Our existing high range providers would tell you: "Working as intended".

This is only kind of true.

It is definitely true that it takes skill in maintaining an image and level of service to justify a higher rate. Each lady does it differently. And you definitely have to bring something special to the table.

However, I was doing fine and dandy before I decided to dip my little toes into Co-Ed here out of curiosity. I've been around for a couple of years, but I wasn't active on the board until some months ago, other than just posting ads in the Ad section. I'd still be fine if I faded back into an ECCIE lurker now. But yes, since I do write publicly on the board, I do keep my image in mind whenever I type.

I think ladies coming in at higher rates initially is great for them. Sucks for you guys, maybe, if you're on a budget. The WW rush can be overwhelming... if she is desirable to the masses, she's getting TONS of interest and she probably can't accommodate them all anyway. So if she comes in at a higher introductory rate, the problem solves itself. Fewer will be willing to pull the trigger, and now she's seeing a more manageable amount of clients but making more money. If she doesn't have something special to justify the rate, then she'll have to bring it down after the next flavor of the month comes along, but for that IPO, if you will, she made bank and set herself up nicely.

Seems like a good strategy to me. I wouldn't tell a lady not to do it. Sorry, hun.

Vote with your wallet.

[pyramider]

Caroline, taint justifies a rate. Post the taint, get the rate.

[citizen44]

In a lot of these threads providers tend to take the view that hobbiest get in these debates in an effort to drive prices down. I could care less what any provider charges or doesn't charge. My comments are made for two specific audience with specific messages:

1). To the new hobbiest: in the hobby world, do not believe that a more expensive session equates to more enjoyment or fall for the old saying "you get what you pay for". If you exercise even a small amount of research you will find lots of great experiences at all price levels. Don't worry if there is a lady outside your price range, there are probably 10 more just as fun at half the price.

2). To the new provider: no matter what the business is, a new market entrant with an unproven product increases her chance of failure by coming in and competing at the same price as proven competitors. Your competitors love when you try this. If you are trying to build a business, it won't kill you to get your bills payed first, then work up to higher income levels after you have built good reviews and a stable return client base.

A perfect example of this is Shantal Fox. She spent 5-6 months at agencies making 160 and building a following with good reviews. She then jumped out, grabbed a nice apt, got good reviews, put together a professional photo portfolio, and charged 200 for 2 months while building a stable client base. She is now set up for the long term, if she so desires, and has now started charging 300. Her life didn't end because she wasn't charging 300 the entire time. In the same 8 months, no telling how many flash in the pans there have been.

Whether a new provider charges 100 or 400, it wont matter to me. 95% of all my hobbying is done with either agencies or the Dallas traveling posse, both of which can actually be counted on to be at an appointment on time. This is a skill the vast majority, but not all, of Houston independents cant seem to master for some reason.

[Wakeup]

Originally Posted by citizen44

In a lot of these threads providers tend to take the view that hobbiest get in these debates in an effort to drive prices down.

I wonder how any provider could ever think that...

Originally Posted by TheAntichrist666

...To begin at an initial lower introductory rate...

...they reduce their rate down...

...offer specials every now and then.

Never mind...

[BFCjosh]

Originally Posted by TheAntichrist666

From my point of view, I'm kind of nervous about paying 3 Benjamins to someone who hasn't built or proven or established their brand name and hobby reputation yet, and not knowing what I'm going to get. Will it be a good session? An okay session? A non - GFE session? A terrible session?

Considering that you've done 10-15 "YES!" or "YIPPEE!" reviews on Jemma, I'm guessing you're going to have a GREAT time with 99% of the new providers posting in the WW.

[spear88]

[QUOTE=citizen44;1055713452]

1). To the new hobbiest: in the hobby world, do not believe that a more expensive session equates to more enjoyment or fall for the old saying "you get what you pay for". If you exercise even a small amount of research you will find lots of great experiences at all price levels. Don't worry if there is a lady outside your price range, there are probably 10 more just as fun at half the price.

QUOTE]

I certainly want to second this. I rarely see our regular providers here because of two things, One is that it is just hard to make schedules, I especially hate when I make an offer and cannot get a reply in my limited time frame. But the second reason is often price. I will pay Three bills and have in the past but it better be for an exceptional lady and experience. The fact is that there are a few regulars I have who are in the 180-200 price range, and who are really great ladies. Then there are spa girls who offer some of the best experiences I have ever had, although they come and go.

[SpiceItUp]

Originally Posted by CarolineDavenport

This is only kind of true.

It is definitely true that it takes skill in maintaining an image and level of service to justify a higher rate. Each lady does it differently. And you definitely have to bring something special to the table.

However, I was doing fine and dandy before I decided to dip my little toes into Co-Ed here out of curiosity. I've been around for a couple of years, but I wasn't active on the board until some months ago, other than just posting ads in the Ad section. I'd still be fine if I faded back into an ECCIE lurker now. But yes, since I do write publicly on the board, I do keep my image in mind whenever I type.

I think ladies coming in at higher rates initially is great for them. Sucks for you guys, maybe, if you're on a budget. The WW rush can be overwhelming... if she is desirable to the masses, she's getting TONS of interest and she probably can't accommodate them all anyway. So if she comes in at a higher introductory rate, the problem solves itself. Fewer will be willing to pull the trigger, and now she's seeing a more manageable amount of clients but making more money. If she doesn't have something special to justify the rate, then she'll have to bring it down after the next flavor of the month comes along, but for that IPO, if you will, she made bank and set herself up nicely.

Seems like a good strategy to me. I wouldn't tell a lady not to do it. Sorry, hun.

Vote with your wallet.

Obviously as customers we want the best quality for the cheapest price. The provider's want to maximize profits for labor expended. The nature of this diametric opposition is the reason many of these threads pop of from time to time and quickly degenerate.


I agree with you Caroline, any business wants to maximize profits. Your advocated approach captures more initial profit margins and still allows her to reduce rates at a later point should she find it unsustainable.

*NERD ALERT*

Particularly when you factor in the reality of capacity constraints, i.e. the inability of a brand new provider to even meet the demand for her services, as well as the fact that there is often an early adopter segment of this market who will pay a premium for new talent on the scene and you arrive at a valid pricing strategy.

In fact, what you and Citizen are debating here is something every business that enters a market has to deal with when pricing its products and services. Two common strategies are Price Skimming (Caroline's position) and Penetration Pricing (Citizen's position)

Price Skimming strategy will price a new product or service at a high rate initially and come down in price over time if necessary as sustainability of demand or the life cycle changes. This strategy works well in markets where there exists an inelasticity of demand, i.e. changing price by 1% results in less than a 1% change in demand.

I would argue that effectively this situation does exist in this thing of ours. New providers seem to have a surplus in demand and therefore starting at a higher price, though it affects absolute demand, when factoring in their supply constraints, does not affect the demand they can actually meet. Therefore, this strategy would maximize initial profits.

Alternatively, Penetration Pricing will price a new product or service often lower than current market rates in order to penetrate a competitively dense market and secure market share. This strategy works well in a highly elastic market but can be very risky as it is sacrifices profit margins in order to gain entry into the market and customers often leave as prices are raised to normal levels.

I would argue that penetration pricing is not necessary in this environment and indeed may be counterproductive in terms of maximizing initial profits and in fact creates additional surplus demand which cannot be met.

Obviously as the "life cycle" of a new provider moves out of the Introduction and into the Growth phase the girl may experience a drop in demand due to not being the shiny new toy, however, if her service level is good and can command whatever price she is charging there may be no need for adjustment at all.

Whether or not pricing model is sustainable is a topic for another post, but as in everything else in life the Dunning-Kruger effect is often present. (google it I have to run)

[Guest021817-2]

Spice will make a good pimp one day.

[Guest032117]

Originally Posted by SpiceItUp

Obviously as customers we want the best quality for the cheapest price. The provider's want to maximize profits for labor expended. The nature of this diametric opposition is the reason many of these threads pop of from time to time and quickly degenerate.


I agree with you Caroline, any business wants to maximize profits. Your advocated approach captures more initial profit margins and still allows her to reduce rates at a later point should she find it unsustainable.

*NERD ALERT*

Particularly when you factor in the reality of capacity constraints, i.e. the inability of a brand new provider to even meet the demand for her services, as well as the fact that there is often an early adopter segment of this market who will pay a premium for new talent on the scene and you arrive at a valid pricing strategy.

In fact, what you and Citizen are debating here is something every business that enters a market has to deal with when pricing its products and services. Two common strategies are Price Skimming (Caroline's position) and Penetration Pricing (Citizen's position)

Price Skimming strategy will price a new product or service at a high rate initially and come down in price over time if necessary as sustainability of demand or the life cycle changes. This strategy works well in markets where there exists an inelasticity of demand, i.e. changing price by 1% results in less than a 1% change in demand.

I would argue that effectively this situation does exist in this thing of ours. New providers seem to have a surplus in demand and therefore starting at a higher price, though it affects absolute demand, when factoring in their supply constraints, does not affect the demand they can actually meet. Therefore, this strategy would maximize initial profits.

Alternatively, Penetration Pricing will price a new product or service often lower than current market rates in order to penetrate a competitively dense market and secure market share. This strategy works well in a highly elastic market but can be very risky as it is sacrifices profit margins in order to gain entry into the market and customers often leave as prices are raised to normal levels.

I would argue that penetration pricing is not necessary in this environment and indeed may be counterproductive in terms of maximizing initial profits and in fact creates additional surplus demand which cannot be met.

Obviously as the "life cycle" of a new provider moves out of the Introduction and into the Growth phase the girl may experience a drop in demand due to not being the shiny new toy, however, if her service level is good and can command whatever price she is charging there may be no need for adjustment at all.

Whether or not pricing model is sustainable is a topic for another post, but as in everything else in life the Dunning-Kruger effect is often present. (google it I have to run)

Damn, this is one of the sexiest , most intelligent posts I have ever read. Seriously...wow.

On topic: +1 for what Caroline said.

[pyramider]

You are wrong, there was no mention of taint.

[Guest032117]

Not interested in HippoTaint...but pillow talk about price skimming and penetration pricing makes me wet.

Price skimming should be attempted with a good mentor.

[Texas Skier]

Originally Posted by poppy71

They charge what they want and see who they want and we pay to see who we want and if the rates are not in your comfort zone then move on. If their menus are limited or too many pile on or GPS sinks in then I just roll on to the next one.

Capitalism - ain't it grand?!?!?

[Texas Skier]

Originally Posted by CarolineDavenport

This is only kind of true.

It is definitely true that it takes skill in maintaining an image and level of service to justify a higher rate. Each lady does it differently. And you definitely have to bring something special to the table.

However, I was doing fine and dandy before I decided to dip my little toes into Co-Ed here out of curiosity. I've been around for a couple of years, but I wasn't active on the board until some months ago, other than just posting ads in the Ad section. I'd still be fine if I faded back into an ECCIE lurker now. But yes, since I do write publicly on the board, I do keep my image in mind whenever I type.

I think ladies coming in at higher rates initially is great for them. Sucks for you guys, maybe, if you're on a budget. The WW rush can be overwhelming... if she is desirable to the masses, she's getting TONS of interest and she probably can't accommodate them all anyway. So if she comes in at a higher introductory rate, the problem solves itself. Fewer will be willing to pull the trigger, and now she's seeing a more manageable amount of clients but making more money. If she doesn't have something special to justify the rate, then she'll have to bring it down after the next flavor of the month comes along, but for that IPO, if you will, she made bank and set herself up nicely.

Seems like a good strategy to me. I wouldn't tell a lady not to do it. Sorry, hun.

Vote with your wallet.

Call me a dork, but smart chicks are such a turn-on.

[SpiceItUp]

Originally Posted by lookn4boobies

Spice will make a good pimp one day.

P.S. Don't knock hippo taint until you've tried it Marie!

[Guest032117]

Originally Posted by SpiceItUp

P.S. Don't knock hippo taint until you've tried it Marie!

I'll add it to my menu the next time we meet