The future of health care and why health insurance doesn't matter

[IIFFOFRDB]

Originally Posted by CJ7

The government is involved in payment ONLY. All medical decisions will be made solely by medical professionals and solely in the best interests of the patient.

and who watches the Fox around the chickens ?

My Ass...http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2iVgUA3cH

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by IIFFOFRDB

My Ass...http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2iVgUA3cH

your ass monitors health care quality??

[i'va biggen]

It is what he speaks with.

[nwarounder]

Originally Posted by CJ7

The government is involved in payment ONLY. All medical decisions will be made solely by medical professionals and solely in the best interests of the patient.

Hmmm, that is how it works? So if a doctor treats a Medicaid patient based solely on what he thinks is in the best interest of the patient, and he submits those payments to the government, they just pay him for it, and for what he bills, no questions asked or no funds withheld? I thought if a doctor ordered a MRI for headaches, surgery, or anything major the hospital, diagnosing unit, or surgeon's staff called the government or insurance company and asks for approval before doing the procedure. But surely I'm wrong about this, and you have it all figured out since you used caps

[IIFFOFRDB]

Originally Posted by CJ7

your ass monitors health care quality??

My ass knows shit, when it squeezes it... just like Onotcare, it's shit.

[CuteOldGuy]

If you want to discuss my plan for single payer, wait for me to start a thread. My post was in response to a comment by Whirly. This is about Misahawk's post.

[BJerk]

Originally Posted by Misawahawk

Folks the best and the brightest in our country are able to send a rocket to Mars with a remote control car, drive around examining rocks, and then send back the pictures. Figuring out the algorithms to cost effectively provide universal health care to all Americans is doable. In fact it would be a walk in the park compared to fighting and winning 2 world wars, creating the atom bomb, going to the moon, and maintaining peace and stability in the world for the past 60 years.

I've read the majority of posts on this board pertaining to Obamacare. Please don't fall into the Coke vs Pepsi mindset that Democrats or Republicans are going to solve our problems. That train doesn't go there. Americans solve the problems when they collectively say fuck the consequences, what we are doing isn't working, and we don't care who gets the credit as long as the problem is solved.

The notion of insurance is a smoke and mirrors shell game that has no reason to be part and parcel of life and death situations. Insurance companies are just like casinos and in the end the house always wins. Go back to our preamble and examine the ethos of all that is true American, examine those 'self evident' truths. I trust you won't find anything about making money off the sure bet that all beings get sick and die. You will find something about our creator saying we have a right, but not just a right, an unalienable right (not transferable) to life!!

Do you really feel we have maintained stability in the world for the last 60 years? Does the world seem that stable to you? I think the healthcare business of 300 million people is extremely complicated, but our President has created a pretty good system to deal with it, and the most patriotic Americans support him.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

If you want to discuss my plan for single payer, wait for me to start a thread. My post was in response to a comment by Whirly. This is about Misahawk's post.

wait for you? riiiiight.

Hold your breath while we wait.

[Misawahawk]

Originally Posted by Bert Jones

Do you really feel we have maintained stability in the world for the last 60 years? Does the world seem that stable to you? I think the healthcare business of 300 million people is extremely complicated, but our President has created a pretty good system to deal with it, and the most patriotic Americans support him.

Well nothing is perfect and the world has a bunch of problems, but by and large I think the past 60 years have been pretty darn good. We've had wars but nothing major like WWI and WWII. I bet if we asked people in the mid 1940s if they thought mass war would break out again by 2013 they'd probably say yes. I'm not saying the US is perfect by any means.

[Guest032516]

I really have no idea what you are trying to say. If you have a solution, post it.

Originally Posted by Misawahawk

The notion of insurance is a smoke and mirrors shell game that has no reason to be part and parcel of life and death situations.
Why? Insurance is about pooling risk and spreading costs. It works for houses and cars. Why not medical issues?

And the truth is that healthcare from the government is just another form of insurance because it also pools risks and spread costs. The only difference is what you can't get what you want the way you do in the private market. You take what the government give you.

Insurance companies are just like casinos and in the end the house always wins.
You say that like it's a bad thing. If they went broke, we would have no insurance.

Go back to our preamble and examine the ethos of all that is true American, examine those 'self evident' truths. I trust you won't find anything about making money off the sure bet that all beings get sick and die.
You won't find "self evident" truths in the Preamble (to the Constitution). You find them if you looked in the Declaration of Independence (DoI), however.

But, I don't find anything either the Preamble or the DoI about making money from car wrecks, which is also a sure bet. Or making money from mowing lawns, or painting houses, or selling beer. What's your point? There are a LOT of thing that are NOT in the Declaration of Independence. It wasn't meant to describe everything.

You will find something about our creator saying we have a right, but not just a right, an unalienable right (not transferable) to life.
And that right to life referred to preventing your life from being taken from you by government. It did not refer to giving you free medical care. Everyone dies, especially back in 1776. No one can give you a right not to die (from something eventually).

Also, if you read a little further along in the Declaration of Independence, you would have noticed that the unalienable rights went beyond "life" and also included "liberty" and the "pursuit of happiness".

And a good case can be made that being forced to pay for the healthcare of others (especially those who are not working and paying INTO the system) is an infringement of YOUR liberty and pursuit of happiness.

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by CJ7

The government is involved in payment ONLY. All medical decisions will be made solely by medical professionals and solely in the best interests of the patient.

Are you really that naive?

The system doesn't work that way and no one in their right mind would want it to.

Before the government ever gets to paying for anything, it will first decide what treatments and procedures it is willing to pay for.

So, if you want Lasik, pay for it yourself. Otherwise, take the eyeglasses that the governments willing to pay for.

If you and your doctor want to try some new, unapproved cancer treatment, pay for it yourself. Otherwise, chose from the list of approved chemotherapies that the government is willing to pay for.

Braces? Cosmetic. Pay for it yourself.

And so on and so on.

Not that I disagree with all of that. I'm just making the point that the government will NEVER give you a blank check.

[acp5762]

Originally Posted by CJ7

The government is involved in payment ONLY. All medical decisions will be made solely by medical professionals and solely in the best interests of the patient.

and who watches the Fox around the chickens ?

I would say that's basically true. But lets be realistic. Obamacare offers Americans Healthcare Insurance on a very basic level. Some individuals unfortunately based on their Health status may encounter some treatment options that Obamacare may not cover.

[nwarounder]

Originally Posted by acp5762

I would say that's basically true. But lets be realistic. Obamacare offers Americans Healthcare Insurance on a very basic level. Some individuals unfortunately based on their Health status may encounter some treatment options that Obamacare may not cover.

Hence, the term "death panels". But just to be clear, I am not saying this is exclusive or new to Obamacare, we had them for years in the private sector as well.