New Dumbama was a Lazy, Chicken Shit Who Doesn't Support Our Troops

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by SexyBritneyJ

That didn't even make sense. You don't have to make abusive comments.

sure he does, that's ALL the little troll can muster.

the original link worked for me too ... it must have an idiot firewall or rockhead could have opened it too.

[Yssup Rider]

fuck you uncle han

[JD Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by SexyBritneyJ

I'd really like to know why "healthcare rationing" didn't become known as "death panels" until the Affordable Care Act. This is common practice, and has been for a long time. Fortunately, the "rationing" is usually reserved for unproven treatments. Bullshit propaganda.

Unusual treatments? If you didn't know it George W. Bush was in the hospital two weeks ago for a stent. The test that they did to discover a minor blockage is prohibited by Obamacare and it is in common usage. In England they are withholding treatment because patients are overweight or are smokers.

Patients in Canada are more likely to die rather than get an MRI for a brain tumor. MRIs are commonplace.

You've heard of the ad hominem, how about begging the question?

[IIFFOFRDB]

Found his birth certicate, thats FN BS...

http://patdollard.com/2013/08/reggie...t-it-overseas/

[SexyBritneyJ]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Unusual treatments? If you didn't know it George W. Bush was in the hospital two weeks ago for a stent. The test that they did to discover a minor blockage is prohibited by Obamacare and it is in common usage. In England they are withholding treatment because patients are overweight or are smokers.

Patients in Canada are more likely to die rather than get an MRI for a brain tumor. MRIs are commonplace.

You've heard of the ad hominem, how about begging the question?

Which test? The stress test, or the CT?

Failing to see the circular reasoning there, but whatever. I'll just let you have that one.

Tu quoque, anyone?

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by SexyBritneyJ

Which test? The stress test, or the CT?

Tu quoque, anyone?

A "stress test" .. you being in Memphis and not traveling to Texas. Back to the program ...

I could go back and get on the merry-go-round, but ....

SB .. you are correct about the "pre-existing" propensity for health insurance carriers to NOT cover "experimental" procedures, equipment, and pharmaceuticals, but generally speaking those things can be obtained through educational hospitals and institutions that engage in their development and early usage for extreme cases without charge if one is willing to be a human "lab rat" ... those decisions were customarily made internally and were excluded, along with many other procedures, under Medicare and Medicaid.

What is different now under the ACA is a prioritizing of resources, physical, personnel, and funding, toward what is identified by THE SECRETARY (the government) as "preventive" procedures and generic pharmaceuticals....which means that those with "pre-existing conditions" that might REQUIRE some of the developing, extreme treatments are not going to be treated based on the decision of an "IRO" ("Independent Review Organization) that so far as extremely limited and narrow judicial review, if any for all practical purposes.

In the ACA it is not called a "Death Panel" so anyone who says there are not "Death Panels" is literally correct .. if one does a word/phrase search of the ACA. Is the name "scary" yes ... is the name "inciteful" .. yes ... is that a practical result of the authority and power of the life and death decision making ... yes.

Even a convicted serial killer gets an appeal in the court system,

.......... whether one agrees with it or not. It's called "due process"!

What is "unsettling" about the discussion of the IRO's is that the sales pitch (snake oil) is couched in terms of being "good for the consumer" ... but that has not been the history of decision making with Medicare or Medicaid ... and private carriers.

It's like the "taxes" put on consumers and employers ... touted to be "therapeutic" to the goal of providing insurance for "everyone" and offsetting the costs to the consumers who do carry insurance.

Really? Can anyone think of a "tax" that is imposed to control trade?

Does it work? What do we get for it ....

Shirts with sleeves odd sizes, button holes out of alignment with cheap buttons that crumble after repeated dryings,, short tails that don't stay tucked, and threads hanging off here and there that must be clipped, and sizes that don't match what we were wearing.

Inferior products for not much less than we pay for "U.S. made"!

Who gets to keep their "superior insurance products" ("Cadillac plans) with EXEMPTIONS?

Obaminable and family, both houses of Congress and their staff, all Federal employees, and ...

..........THE UNIONS, et al

The actual goal (they have reportedly said so privately) is their desire for a "one horse" health insurance program. Meaning for those "grunts" who don't benefit from an exemption from THE SECRETARY, a "one size fits all" health insurance program like Medicare or Medicaid, while the "privileged" get "Cadillac Plans"! The "Cadillac owners" get the freeway to good preventive care and good corrective care, while the "Pinto owners" gradually die off because they have been provided inferior preventive alternatives and minimal "corrective care," which actually saves money ... as one or two posting on here have suggested!

What good does it do to cover a "pre-existing condition" if one lacks quality maintenance and corrective care to address the issues related to their "pre-existing condition"?

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by CJ7

.... right now there are several norms in the healthcare industry that deny people treatment ... pre existing conditions, and caps on money for treatments come to mind... both of which will vanish when the new laws take effect ... .

That is not a true statement ....

and calling someone a "piece of shit" fails to address a substantive issue in this thread ..

It makes no difference if some has a "pre-existing condition" that is not covered or someone has a "pre-existing condition" for which certain available treatments are not allowed or certain facilities and providers are not the ACA "in network" .... there will be

facilities and providers now who refuse to accept the ACA qualified plans of insurance ...

just like there are facilities and providers which and who have been falling out of Medicare and Medicaid, left and right....which has been going on for years .. long before ACA.

Obaminable had it right in a moment of clarity ... the ACA model is the U.S. Post Office!

[JD Barleycorn]

Not the best argument Britney. I give you a real world example and you just say "what???" and move on. Respond to the known facts that thousands have died waiting on common treatments in other countries with socialized medicine. Even today the use of mammograms and prostrate testing is being reduced across the board to reduce costs. It is inconvenient and uncomfortable but for some it is life saving. One size does not fit all. My father died from prostrate cancer, my mother had breast cancer but I am being treated like my family is cancer free. These are just recommendations from the White House and not the law just yet.

[SexyBritneyJ]

And I would counter that, even if we go ahead and suppose that everything else you said was true, having even a "pinto" of a health plan is better than having no access to affordable healthcare.

One can complain about Medicaid and Medicare until he/she is blue in the face, but the fact that it provides health coverage to millions of people who would otherwise the unable to afford it is undeniable.

I hope you don't mean to suggest that teaching hospitals with no longer conduct research. People who are willing to enroll in clinical trials are not going to stop having that option available. Also, I said "unproven," not "experimental." There's a huge difference.

I still don't understand why people believe that these panels decide who lives and who dies. The truth is that unapproved treatments will always be available to anyone who wants to pay for them themselves, just like they are under our current system. No one has answered that for me yet. It's no different from the way our current system works.

[SexyBritneyJ]

I did respond. I'm waiting on your response so I can type my retort out all at once. Patience.

[IIFFOFRDB]

Oh...I see this changed into a Death Panel thread...duh...

[JD Barleycorn]

Let me ask you this Britney, ever been part of the Veterans Hospital Program?

I had severe, really severe abdominal pains about five years ago. Everything that went into my mouth came back up including water. After three days I recovered. During that time I called the VA and I was told a few things; it was a weekend, could I wait until Monday? I could some in under my own power but I would have to wait until a doctor was available which might be hours. If I thought it was necessary I could still not get an ambulance to deliver me to the hospital. They did make an appointment for me three weeks later. I came in and told me story to a my doctor who was my third doctor in three years and it was the first time I met her. She scheduled me for an MRI (something you can't get in Canada) in about a month. The technician (not the doctor) looked at the picture and told me that I had survived acute appendicitis. The scarring was very obvious. The doctor confirmed this and I asked about removal. She told me that since I was okay now that they would not entertain that idea.

Three years later I ended up at the emergency room with a bad appendix and spent a week inside. That was under my private healthcare insurance plan. That $55,000 expense cost me about $2,000. The VA was "free" and almost killed me. Quite the bargain.

[JCM800]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

I had severe, really severe abdominal pains about five years ago. Everything that went into my mouth came back up including water.

could it have been from that "shit-flavored soda"?

[therock18]

Because, if you read the article the board decides if you get treatment or not and what treatment. If Pill A will fix the issue but it cost more than Pill B which does not fix the issue - you will receive Pill B.

Just like that youtube link that I sent.

Point is the Gov't should not get between you and your doctor. The treatment decision should be left between you two alone. The Gov't has no business getting involved.

And what good is having access to medical care when you will be denied treatment? I do not understand why you don't get that?

And your ok with Obamacare proving the Gov't permission to go inside your home and inspect it? If you are a smoker the gov't is allowed to go in your home for inspection. If you own a firearm, the gov't is allowed to go in your home and inspect it. This is ok with you?

Obamacare WAS NOT designed for the purpose of providing healthcare to millions uninsured. Even the CBO released that with Obamacare the same amount of millions of people will be uninsured still. The purpose of Obamacare is to put the Gov't in your healthcare decisions and to control the people.

Originally Posted by SexyBritneyJ

And I would counter that, even if we go ahead and suppose that everything else you said was true, having even a "pinto" of a health plan is better than having no access to affordable healthcare.

One can complain about Medicaid and Medicare until he/she is blue in the face, but the fact that it provides health coverage to millions of people who would otherwise the unable to afford it is undeniable.

I hope you don't mean to suggest that teaching hospitals with no longer conduct research. People who are willing to enroll in clinical trials are not going to stop having that option available. Also, I said "unproven," not "experimental." There's a huge difference.

I still don't understand why people believe that these panels decide who lives and who dies. The truth is that unapproved treatments will always be available to anyone who wants to pay for them themselves, just like they are under our current system. No one has answered that for me yet. It's no different from the way our current system works.

[therock18]

The video below explains everything that everyone can understand! The video below shows the person attempting to utilized Canada's socialized health care system which is what Liberals want here!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw