HUFFINGTON POST Article

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Remain ignorant, CBJ7. You're obviously happier that way.

typical

[Chica Chaser]

Originally Posted by CJ7

... my argument is and was based on the middle class and the fairness of a flat 23% tax imposed on a family making 40K a year. The majority of their income is spent because they HAVE to to live, depriving them of any disposable income with a higher tax rate seems fair to you?

CJ, have you still not read and understand the prebate provision of the fair tax plan yet? Let me help since you are not going to go look for yourself

The FairTax provides a progressive program called a prebate. This gives every legal resident household an “advance refund” at the beginning of each month so that purchases made up to the poverty level are tax-free. The prebate prevents an unfair burden on low-income families

Under the FairTax, all Americans consume what they see as their necessities of life free of tax. While permitting no exemptions, the FairTax (HR25/S13) provides a monthly, universal prebate to ensure that each family unit can consume tax-free at or beyond the poverty level, with the overall effect of making the FairTax progressive in application. This is not an entitlement, but a rebate (in advance) of taxes paid – thus the term prebate. Everyone pays taxes at the cash register.

Here is all the numbers
http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/PrebateExplained2012.pdf

[CuteOldGuy]

Not only that, but CBJ7 doesn't understand that a car that costs $20,000 before the FairTax is implemented will cost $20,000 AFTER the FairTax is implemented. And the family that earns $40,000, will actually take home $40,000, instead of it being reduced by federal SS, Medicare and withholding taxes. The family will have more disposable income, the car will cost the same. Thus, they can more easily afford the new car. This will result in more new car sales.

Foreign cars will have to add the 23% on top of their regular price, because they will still be carrying their own country's embedded tax and compliance costs, which American cars will not have. Foreign cars will cost more than American cars. This will be great for American car makers, not to mention the economy as a whole.

[CJ7]

http://www.moneycrashers.com/fair-ta...ned-pros-cons/


Cof, I get it ... your entire objection is about the IRS , just like its always been

[Laz]

Originally Posted by CJ7

IMO the fair tax has its merits and its pitfalls. The "conservative" idea LETS TRY THIS like COF wants to seems a little far fetched ... A new tax system isnt exactly a new pair of shoes ... my argument is and was based on the middle class and the fairness of a flat 23% tax imposed on a family making 40K a year. The majority of their income is spent because they HAVE to to live, depriving them of any disposable income with a higher tax rate seems fair to you? Of course they could buy someone elses old shit and avoid being taxed but isnt that wealth redistribution when a single guy making 200K a year gets to buy new stuff, and put his disposable income in a stock portfolio or invest otherwise? In this very thread your supporting the middle class with lower taxes, then BINGO you arent ... and my argument is silly?

good to know, thanks.

As for your assertion that the tax is unfair to the lower income people read the link Chica posted.

One thing that bothers me is your objection to people buying used products. What is wrong with that? People buy used cars and other items all the time now for a variety of reasons. Hell, antiques are used items and people pay extra for that. Buying a good use product is financially smart.

The other problem is that you are assuming that the people in lower income levels are not paying higher taxes now. That is the biggest misunderstanding that I see people point to. The taxes are simply built into the price of the products people buy today. They do not see it but it is there. That is how the government gets away with saying they will tax the rich and corporations instead of them. The politicians know that those taxes get passed down to the lower income levels in the cost of the goods and services they buy. However, because the tax portion of the price is not broken out the sheep go on thinking that someone else is paying the tax.

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by CJ7

http://www.moneycrashers.com/fair-ta...ned-pros-cons/


Cof, I get it ... your entire objection is about the IRS , just like its always been

You don't have an answer to the post, do you, CBJ7? Yes, what good is there about the IRS? But it is much more than that, it is about using the tax code for social engineering and funneling tax dollars to the friends and donors of politicians.

But yes, the IRS should be abolished. What about the IRS do you like, CBJ7? And do you have a coherent response to my post? Didn't think so.

[CJ7]

Many people derive significant benefit from common personal tax deductions, such as the home mortgage interest deduction, the child and dependent care credit, education credits and deductions, and the earned income tax credit – not to mention the ability to deduct medical bills and expenses and student loan interest. The cost of home ownership, then, could significantly rise for homeowners who currently itemize and have large interest payments. Renting would become even more appealing, and an already ailing real estate market could be devastated.

Read more: http://www.moneycrashers.com/fair-ta...#ixzz2F3YIfuqG

[CuteOldGuy]

Read the website, even with all those current advantages, the FairTax comes out better. You really want to be stupid, don't you? Just read it. At least then you'll understand.

What is it about our current tax code that you love so much? And you still haven't answered my other questions.

[CJ7]

all youre willing to discuss are the advantages .. your entire MO is abolish the IRS

read the cons on the website I posted ...

Im on record saying a fair tax has its merits and its pitfalls ... you on the otherhand are a broken fucking record. IMO I believe the fair tax isnt as fair to the middle class as the current tax laws ... click the llink and read all about it.

[Laz]

Originally Posted by CJ7

Many people derive significant benefit from common personal tax deductions, such as the home mortgage interest deduction, the child and dependent care credit, education credits and deductions, and the earned income tax credit – not to mention the ability to deduct medical bills and expenses and student loan interest. The cost of home ownership, then, could significantly rise for homeowners who currently itemize and have large interest payments. Renting would become even more appealing, and an already ailing real estate market could be devastated.

Read more: http://www.moneycrashers.com/fair-ta...#ixzz2F3YIfuqG

For most people those deductions don't have a large dollar value. The standard deduction everyone gets covers most of that so things like the mortgage interest deduction really only help the rich or those buying property in states where the property values are crazy. As for renting vs. buying. All that matters is you have a safe place to live. Whether you rent or buy should be a financial decision. Either way there will have to be houses to rent so someone will be building or buying them.

[CuteOldGuy]

I read your link, CBJ7. They are wrong. An item that currently costs $100 would cost about $77 once the internal taxes and compliance costs are eliminated. Then the 23% tax would be added, or 30%, (those percentages are semantics, the fact is either way you calculate it, $23 is added back into the price) and the price is $100. The general price level would remain static. Incomes would go up. People will be able to buy more, which results in an increase in manufacturing and other businesses. This results in more jobs. As the labor market gets more competitive, wages will increase.

Where is the downside? You just don't want the rich to do well, even though the middle and lower classes will also prosper. You've been indoctrinated that anything that is good for the rich is bad for you.

So what if the rich buy more? People have make what they buy. Those are called "jobs". The more jobs, the higher the velocity of money, the economy grows.

And tax evasion? They can't be serious. You think that massive tax evasion isn't going on now? It will be much harder to evade the FairTax than the income tax. Sure, some will try, and even succeed, but not anywhere near the level that's going on now.

And you still haven't answered my questions. Guess you don't have an answer.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

I read your link, CBJ7. They are wrong. An item that currently costs $100 would cost about $77 once the internal taxes and compliance costs are eliminated. Then the 23% tax would be added, or 30%, (those percentages are semantics, the fact is either way you calculate it, $23 is added back into the price) and the price is $100. The general price level would remain static. Incomes would go up. People will be able to buy more, which results in an increase in manufacturing and other businesses. This results in more jobs. As the labor market gets more competitive, wages will increase.

Where is the downside? You just don't want the rich to do well, even though the middle and lower classes will also prosper. You've been indoctrinated that anything that is good for the rich is bad for you.

So what if the rich buy more? People have make what they buy. Those are called "jobs". The more jobs, the higher the velocity of money, the economy grows.

And tax evasion? They can't be serious. You think that massive tax evasion isn't going on now? It will be much harder to evade the FairTax than the income tax. Sure, some will try, and even succeed, but not anywhere near the level that's going on now.

And you still haven't answered my questions. Guess you don't have an answer.

this one?

What is it about our current tax code that you love so much?


your stupidity doesnt deserve an answer

[CuteOldGuy]

Handed you your ass again, didn't I, CBJ7.

[CJ7]

your speculation is right and someone elses speculation is wrong


thats not handing anyone their ass, its your tired old ass yammering the same old shit

[Laz]

Originally Posted by CJ7

all youre willing to discuss are the advantages .. your entire MO is abolish the IRS

read the cons on the website I posted ...

Im on record saying a fair tax has its merits and its pitfalls ... you on the otherhand are a broken fucking record. IMO I believe the fair tax isnt as fair to the middle class as the current tax laws ... click the llink and read all about it.

I clicked the link and read about it. Their analysis was superficial and by no means comprehensive. If I understand you correctly you believe the middle class will bear a greater burden. If you consider they get to keep all of their pay, the prebate, the tax only being on new items, and that the taxes the rich currently pay are passed on now, your argument has holes in it.

The article also says they do not have to pay tax on all of their income and the rich have more to save. Incentivizing savings and investment is good for our economy but even if you ignore that the rich will buy goods and services way out of proportion to those with lower incomes and pay much more in taxes.

What other specific things do you have a problem with?