"TS" Providers and ECCIE Gentlemen (and I'm using that term very loosely. Some are more like middle-school boys.)

[Annie Calhoun]

Well, the last thread I was participating in was closed before I got a chance to respond (grumble grumble grumble, don't talk to me about logic; I used to teach this stuff...), but I'm gonna start a new conversation because...well, why not? People have been complaining about the board being boring lately...

So. The topic is TS providers.

One thing that really, really bothers me about this board is how transgender-phobic so many of the guys seem to be.

Now, don't tell anyone this**, but I love sex. LOVE IT. I love sex with men, and I love sex with women. Basically, I like to have sex with people I find attractive. And I'm attracted to a pretty wide range of people, especially if they can make me laugh, or think, or give me a bit of lively conversation. I've never had sex with a transgender person, but who knows, I might love that too. But if I don't, you sure won't find me criticizing other people who do.

Actually, I know quite a few men who are attracted to (and like to have sex with) transgender women. It's far more common than some of you might think (yeah, for some reason, my guy friends feel comfortable telling me more or less everything pertaining to their sex life and sexuality). They don't tell anyone this, of course, because of the stigma attached. They're afraid of the backlash they may receive from other men.

Case in point:

Review: TS Jennifer: Hell of a Time

I find most of the responses to this review to be pretty mean-spirited and immature, and they don't reflect well on the commenters. And I wholeheartedly agree with this guy's comment:

Originally Posted by downtownguy

You all should be more respectful in your replies, or just don't reply. I'm sure these comments cause a lot of people to not post ts reviews. The more reviews the safer we all can be.

and this one:

Originally Posted by TeddyRuxpin225

Some terrible replies in here. People tripping all over themselves to come in and declare "not gay!" or how disgusting this is. It's this mans personal preference and he shouldn't be belittled or ostracized for it. This may not be my preference, but I welcome his review and others like it since there is clearly some interest in it.

Let's hear that again, shall we?

It's this mans personal preference and he shouldn't be belittled or ostracized for it.

I know this kind of behavior is just mirroring the prevailing attitudes in Real Life, but that doesn't make it OK (obviously), and I think it's actually, in a way, worse to perpetuate those attitudes here on the boards. So you find it disgusting? Fine then; don't read the review--there's a great big "TS" there in the subject line to let you know this is not the review you're looking for. But by treating a reviewer in this manner, you're discouraging other men from reviewing their sessions with TS ladies. And that leads to a dearth of reviews of TS providers on the boards, which makes the boards pretty much useless for any gentlemen looking for that experience. And why do we have the boards at all? Isn't the whole point to keep the hobby fun, safe, and satisfying for everyone involved?

As it is, most TS ladies wouldn't be able to get access to the Infoshare if they wanted it. Why? Because they can't get VP status...because they have no reviews...because board members are shamed if they even admit to having met with a TS provider. No wonder guys don't want to review them!

By being jerks to guys who review TS providers, you're not just being immature; you're denying them the same benefits the rest of us get from the boards: most importantly, a reasonable expectation of safety when an ECCIE-active hobbyist with good references chooses to visit an ECCIE-active provider with good reviews.

So stop with the middle-school-esque "OMG-I'm-sooo-grossed-out-by-who-YOU-like" fest, will ya, gentlemen?



**Yes, I'm joking. Tell everyone!!


For the record, this article by Janet Mock (a trans woman and activist) is what got me started thinking about this so much today: How Society Shames Men Dating Trans Women & How This Affects Our Lives

[rex111999]

What a well thought out post. Thanks Annie. I agree with much of what you said. I dislike that people are so hateful, in general, on the internet and on this board. In NOLA particularly. Then when you throw out subject that they disagree with or find personal opposition to and they get downright nasty.
Thanks for having the courage to bring this up.
I, personally, wouldn't care to see a TS provider. I do support others rights to and believe that sharing reviews about it can help the hobbying community as a whole.

[Arverni]

You know I respect you as a real leader on this forum, right Annie? AND - also in this "community".

So please take this constructively. Let me state up front that I agree with your post with the following clarifications ...

It's NOT just the guys. The gals may not post too much about it (though they have made comments from time to time) but I have talked to providers who've mentioned that the TS reviews creep them out and they wonder why they're even allowed on ECCIE.

It's no secret that while we men enjoy seeing two gals go at it ... many, if not most, women are seriously turned off by the thought or image of two guys doing the same. And indeed, many women are turned off by lesbian sex. So I'm not too sure we're the most closed minded sex on this subject. We ARE "dumb guys" though - who fire first and ask questions later - so it's expected we'd be the most vocal and juvenile about it.

The problem I have resolving all this is ... if TS reviews and providers are allowed on ECCIE - then why not GAY providers? Especially in the specific review you site - that is strictly gay sex going on there. I have no problem with "gay" providers being here - and I classify TS providers as "gay" - so the distinction that ECCIE is making here is a bit weird. For that matter - if there can be "male" providers - then why not "female" reviewers with PA access?

Yeah - way too much for my cave man mind to comprehend - and I get a headache turning my head into a pretzel to resolve it all.

I DO think that TS reviews - and TS providers, should be segregated into a different section of ECCIE - this will not only get them out of the eyes of those who don't care to see them - but it will also MORE IMPORTANTLY - locate all the information on TS providers in one location so that men (or women) who are interested in seeing them have an easier time finding them. The sophomoric comments would also be greatly reduced.

[Annie Calhoun]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.

Originally Posted by rex111999

I, personally, wouldn't care to see a TS provider. I do support others rights to and believe that sharing reviews about it can help the hobbying community as a whole.

This is basically my entire point, except you summed up into two sentences what I needed a zillion words to say, lol.

[Melissa Madyson]

+1

[Annie Calhoun]

Originally Posted by Arverni

You know I respect you as a real leader on this forum, right Annie? AND - also in this "community".

Wow, thanks. That's really nice of you to say.

Originally Posted by Arverni

The gals may not post too much about it (though they have made comments from time to time) but I have talked to providers who've mentioned that the TS reviews creep them out and they wonder why they're even allowed on ECCIE.

Wow, that's sad. I didn't realize that the providers here had a problem with TS reviews. But I'd give them the same advice as I'm giving the guys: if you don't like it, you don't have to read it.

Originally Posted by Arverni

many, if not most, women are seriously turned off by the thought or image of two guys doing the same.

I wouldn't say "most." I'm not particularly into it, but I know women who are happy to watch two hot guys together...and I don't personally know any women who are "seriously turned off" by it. If we're not into it, we...just don't really think about it much.

Originally Posted by Arverni

And indeed, many women are turned off by lesbian sex.

Ain't that a cryin' shame?

Originally Posted by Arverni

The problem I have resolving all this is ... if TS reviews and providers are allowed on ECCIE - then why not GAY providers?

I don't know, why not? I don't see how it would affect anyone but gay providers and their clients.

Originally Posted by Arverni

Especially in the specific review you site - that is strictly gay sex going on there.

No, it's not. It's sex between a man and a transgender woman. Yes, she has a penis. But not all men have penises, and not all women have vaginas. Some people are born with neither, some are born with both, some are born with one thing and they go to war and the damn thing gets blown off by an IED. Your genitals do not necessarily correspond with the gender with which you identify.

Originally Posted by Arverni

I have no problem with "gay" providers being here - and I classify TS providers as "gay" - so the distinction that ECCIE is making here is a bit weird.

While we don't completely see eye-to-eye on this, I agree with you that the distinction is weird. I just figured it was a supply/demand thing. If there were enough clients of male providers to buy enough Premium Access accounts to turn enough profit to matter, then I think ECCIE would probably have a section for clients who see male providers. But apparently, there's no demand for it.

Originally Posted by Arverni

For that matter - if there can be "male" providers - then why not "female" reviewers with PA access?

Agree 100%. I occasionally meet with women, and it might be nice to have a review from one of them so that other women could see that yes, I do enjoy the time I spend with female clients, and yes, they do go home just as happy as my guys do.

Originally Posted by Arverni

I DO think that TS reviews - and TS providers, should be segregated into a different section of ECCIE - this will not only get them out of the eyes of those who don't care to see them - but it will also MORE IMPORTANTLY - locate all the information on TS providers in one location so that men (or women) who are interested in seeing them have an easier time finding them. The sophomoric comments would also be greatly reduced.

Yes, yes, and yes. I agree with all of this. If there were a separate section, those reviews would be easier to find, and the providers and clients in that market would have a designated place to discuss their niche in the hobby. We already have one for Indies, one for Agencies, and one for Massage Parlors, etc. Why not one for TS providers?

I do think that the guys who don't want to see TS reviews should be mature enough not to click on them in the first place, but they seem to come from far and wide just to express how much they DON'T want to read about it--in the comment section of a TS review!! Sometimes I think they're just afraid to admit that, deep down, they...sorta enjoy reading about it.

[annie@christophers]

If ya didnt just notice if ya aint a chick kissing ass or showing pics of tits or offering specials THEY CANT COPE. I and im sure half the board would agree with letting the gays have thier own section.. I for one see absolutely NOTHING wrong with it..Maybe it makes some think to hard about the reason they have an issue..? What ever happened to us VOTING IN A MOD?? ALL this shit is stupid.. ITS A BOARD FOR GODS SAKE..!! And when more colorful people leave yall will be once again sitting here with..ummm well ummm oh yeah thats right .. girls looking for a quick buck.lol.. xxoo annie

[TSKrystiKakes]

Great post Annie! I have one thing to say about the previous "gay" comments. For me personally gay sex is having sex with a woman. And most other TS agree and feel the same. And as for a guy having sex with a TS woman, its not "gay". Its a fetish, it doesn't mean they are gay or even bisexual.
I guess its all in ones on personal views and such, but just because a woman has a penis and likes men, does NOT mean its gay. I do realize its a fine line, but like Annie said, if TS is in the subject line, and you don't like TS, WHY EVEN OPEN THE THREAD?!? Seriously, in my opinion, your just there to troll/make rude comments, or is it your in denial that you are curious about it???
And I agree people not making/ doing reviews on TS is all because of the flamers and trolls making rude comments, I have NO shortage of men I see, but 99.999% don't write a review for fear of getting flamed or labeled as "gay/bi"

[heidilynnla]

Look at all the people tweeting that the new, Indian-American Miss America is a terrorist. Unfortunately, people get judged all the time based on skin color, sexual preference, handicaps. It progressively gets better, but as a country, we are far from perfect.
It's ignorance at it's finest.

[DallasRain]

Grreat post Annie! You rock baby!

Heidi--you are not only sexy,but wise!

I have a fantasy to do a double with a TS.....hey TSKrystiKakes,I have a guy might want one in KC next month!

I was raised in a strict Baptist family where "anyone or anything not like us" was looked at as a "sin"..................so when I got on my own,I changed my life's perspective to be "open" to new ideas and lifestyle choices..............I may not do or believe what somebody else is doing or believing,But why do I have the right to say what is "right or wrong"??


I have a few clients that are crossdressers and I even supply ladies panties for a client who wears them while we play!


I have a dear client friend here on this board who emailed me before he visited with a TS provider in Nola....asking me not to think badly of him because he was seeing a TS.......I told him that whatever or whoever he wanted to play with was his choice!

[TSKrystiKakes]

Im down, just let me know when Dallas!

[annie@christophers]

Asking (very nervous usually) If after years of knowing them could i help with something different.. I have nowhere to send them anymore..used to know 2 trans in the quarters but that was years ago.. if yall know a a person i will give them their number.. xxoo annie (it happens not that often.. but nice to see this thread)

[DallasRain]

annie---there was a gal advertising here.....she is rumored to be a great time by a friend of mine!........... Sativa Slims!


http://www.eccie.net/providers.php?do=view&id=157584

[Nicolet]

I have worked with TS ladies when I was a dancer in the Northeast. One lady in particular was very open to my curiosity about her, and she was GORGEOUS! She has the most beautiful head of natural auburn hair that most women would pay big bucks to have! She had soft curvy hips, slender shoulders, emerald green eyes, just an absolutely beautiful woman, in every sense of the word.
I don't see anything at all wrong with a gentleman seeing a transgendered female, pre-op or post-op. And I wouldn't turn down a three way with a lady like Kristi!

[Annie Calhoun]

Oh look, my little thread exploded while I was out! Yay!

Originally Posted by TSKrystiKakes

Great post Annie!

Thanks!! I'm so glad you approve. I knew I was going out on a limb (as a cis girl talking about trans girls), so I'm glad I (apparently) got it right.

Originally Posted by TSKrystiKakes

I have one thing to say about the previous "gay" comments. For me personally gay sex is having sex with a woman. And most other TS agree and feel the same. And as for a guy having sex with a TS woman, its not "gay". Its a fetish, it doesn't mean they are gay or even bisexual. I guess its all in ones on personal views and such, but just because a woman has a penis and likes men, does NOT mean its gay.

EXACTLY. Literally ALL the guys I know who like TS women are NOT interested in men. AT ALL. These are guys who have only ever slept with women. It's just that they're also interested in girls who have a little (or big? lol ) something different to offer.