Do you believe it or not?

[JD Barleycorn]

We've all seen the ad the last 48 hours (if you haven't what rock are you living under?). A former Kansas City steel worker lost his job, his health insurance, and his wife died of cancer. This ad created by two former staffers at the Obama White House including an assistant of public relations. Simple question for you. Do you believe the ad? Is the ad honest?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj70XqOxptU

[CJ7]

http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?t=518830

[Whirlaway]

It has been proved that the ad is false, misleading, a complete fabrication............a lie.

Politifact hasn't decided yet......

[joe bloe]

It's bullshit. The time line doesn't work. Romney wasn't in control of Bain when the company was shut down.

The more important truth is, that in a capitalist system some businesses succeed and some fail. It's not immoral to close a failing company. When you go to work for a company, you're not given a guarantee that you will have a job for life, even if the company has to operate at a loss.

Liberals are idiots. They don't seem to understand that capitalism is able to create wealth because it's efficient; it's not like government. Bad companies go out of business. Bad employees get fired. In government, bad agencies never close. Bad government employees are rarely ever fired. Liberals think that the private sector should operate like the government. If it did, there would be no wealth created for the government to confiscate and give to the welfare parasites; then everyone loses.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

It has been proved that the ad is false, misleading, a complete fabrication............a lie.

Politifact hasn't decided yet......

in essence its no lie, what happened to his wife is true ... however there was a 6 year timeframe between her being ill and her death where she did have insurance, and its true he lost his 46$K a year job and took another job for half the wage.

my (non-politifact} study says half true

[Whirlaway]

CJ:

Soptic lies in the ad; and the Obama Campgain knows it is a lie but disseminates the lie.......liars, liars, liars...

So what of the lies in the ad?

First of all, Mitt Romney wasn't running Bain Capital when Bain closed down Kansas City-based GST Steel in 2006. Romney had left Bain seven years earlier in 1999.

Secondly, the company was teetering on the edge of bankruptcy due to constant union agitation before Bain bought the company in the first place. Bain was unable to turn it around, again with union recalcitrance serving as a big reason why, and ended up closing it down.

So, the union member in the ad lost his job seven years after Romney left Bain. It was then he lost his insurance – not when Romney worked for Bain.

But, while Mr. Soptic lost his insurance, his wife didn't lose hers.

In the ad Mr. Soptic says that "my family lost their healthcare." This is a lie. He also said that his wife died of cancer "a short time" after he was laid off from GST. This is also a lie.

As it happens, even CNN had to report that Soptic's late wife had insurance for several years after her husband's steel plant was closed down. She worked for Saver's Thrift Store but quit the job because of an injury. She lost her own insurance after she left her job. And she passed away five years after the steel plant was closed down.

In other words, the closing of GST Steel did not take away the woman's healthcare insurance and Romney had precisely nothing to do with it all.

On top of all that, the man running Bain when Mr. Soptic lost his job and insurance, Mr. Jonathan Levine, is a top Obama campaign donation bundler.

In the end, this whole Obama ad is built of lies upon lies, and even most media outlets had to admit it.

[CJ7]

your totally objective opinion is quite refreshing whirlie


eos

[Whirlaway]

The question is not if the ad is believeable; it's been proven to be a big lie...

The question is: Do you think the ad is dispicable ?

Yes, the ad is dispicable...and the man who financed the ad (Obama) is as well.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

We've all seen the ad the last 48 hours (if you haven't what rock are you living under?). A former Kansas City steel worker lost his job, his health insurance, and his wife died of cancer. This ad created by two former staffers at the Obama White House including an assistant of public relations. Simple question for you. Do you believe the ad? Is the ad honest?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj70XqOxptU

Apparently I do. I don't have a TV for this very reason!

Even if Romney was at the helm, was the plant making money? If business owners operate in the red, it will result in a lot more lost jobs than practicing sound business practices.

People have to blame someone for their losses, failures and tragedies. This guy's no different.

Originally Posted by CJ7

your totally objective opinion is quite refreshing whirlie


eos

Was WW's analysis of the situation true or not? Facts, however inconvenient, are always objective; Al Gore said so.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Apparently I do. I don't have a TV for this very reason!

Even if Romney was at the helm, was the plant making money? If business owners operate in the red, it will result in a lot more lost jobs than practicing sound business practices.

People have to blame someone for their losses, failures and tragedies. This guy's no different.



Was WW's analysis of the situation true or not? Facts, however inconvenient, are always objective; Al Gore said so.

I had an opinion, whirlie had an opinion, to an extent both are correct


I find the blantant hypocrisy displayed by the right less than objective ... the republican party has been playing nasty ever since Rove took over for Bush when he ran for Govie ... now the dems break out a stinky fart and the republicans are up in arms ?

well, too fukin bad ... karma in the political arena sucks, deal with it.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by CJ7

I had an opinion, whirlie had an opinion, to an extent both are correct.

No, in post # 6 it WW was posting, what was to be taken as truthful facts not opinions. My question to you is are they true? If they are, then everyone seeing the ad is being lied to. Indisputably, those are the facts.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

No, in post # 6 it WW was posting, what was to be taken as truthful facts not opinions. My question to you is are they true? If they are, then everyone seeing the ad is being lied to. Indisputably, those are the facts.

sans all the irrelevent content in post 6, whirlie and I basically said the same thing, wrong time frames etc ..

my question to you is can you keep up, and understand what gets said?

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by CJ7

sans all the irrelevent content in post 6, whirlie and I basically said the same thing, wrong time frames etc ..

my question to you is can you keep up, and understand what gets said?

No, he also said quite a few other things also that had nothing to do with your time frame or the Zapruder film. See, in THIS, conspiracy theory, the Zapruder film would be irrelevant content. That fact that the lady still had insurance several years after her husband lost his insurance and that she quit her job thereby loosing her health insurance. There's a few other facts included also.

Keep up Slick. See how I stated that as fact, because it's, well, fact.

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

CJ:

Soptic lies in the ad; and the Obama Campgain knows it is a lie but disseminates the lie.......liars, liars, liars...

So what of the lies in the ad?

Secondly, the company was teetering on the edge of bankruptcy due to constant union agitation before Bain bought the company in the first place. Bain was unable to turn it around, again with union recalcitrance serving as a big reason why, and ended up closing it down.

But, while Mr. Soptic lost his insurance, his wife didn't lose hers.

In the ad Mr. Soptic says that "my family lost their healthcare." This is a lie. He also said that his wife died of cancer "a short time" after he was laid off from GST. This is also a lie.

As it happens, even CNN had to report that Soptic's late wife had insurance for several years after her husband's steel plant was closed down. She worked for Saver's Thrift Store but quit the job because of an injury. She lost her own insurance after she left her job. And she passed away five years after the steel plant was closed down.

In other words, the closing of GST Steel did not take away the woman's healthcare insurance and Romney had precisely nothing to do with it all.

[Whirlaway]

OH; it is exasperating trying to decipher CJs illogic................why try............


CJ; the time line is important, but somehow you dismiss it as not having any substance to the facts !

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

OH; it is exasperating trying to decipher CJs illogic................why try............


CJ; the time line is important, but somehow you dismiss it as not having any substance to the facts !

I clearly said there was a 6 year timefarme where the lady had insurance


what of that comment escaped all of you mental midgets?