Honor among thieves

[Mr Peabody]

Good evening fair Ecciests,
I have an urge to (as some of you mother f*ckers like to say) Poke the Bear.

This whole Reference verifying / Provider Reviewing is based on the "honor amongst thieves" principle. It's like we are a band of pirates, where the collective good encourages participation and the following of rules.

Can anyone think of some underlying fault, logical conundrum, or betrayal which could disrupt this neat little system like a house of cards?

Does anybody else see the parallel to the 'Mutually Assured Destruction'', MAD, principle which 'guaranteed' global survival during the cold war?

Are there any other philosophical concepts of similar magnitude in play on this website?

Does anybody else wonder about the unique logical strategies and financial motivation going on behind the scenes at eccie.com?

-Mr. Peabody

[Centaur]

The traditional term is enlightened self-interest. It's a principle of strategy pervading numerous communities from simple friendships to international diplomacy.

However, the dubious principle of honor among thieves - a phrase begging to be a Terry Pratchett novel if ever one was - or cosa nostra or ponyatiya or the jingi of the ninkyō dantai or any of the other unwritten laws that evolve in predatory organizations all have an added nuance that a grey market does not itself intrinsically posses. In essence they establish outsiders as potential marks while defining who among insiders is untouchable.

Other organizations do share this characteristic, such as revolutions, intelligence-gathering networks and Congress (oops, did I say that), but it's far from universal among all who for whatever reason are compelled by law, custom or circumstance to operate sub-rosa. Since undergrounds, crypto-religious communities and grey markets don't exist for for the purpose of thievery, which is antithetical to consent, thieves within their midst are as much a problem as in society as a whole and it's in the community's shared interest to police them since it usually cannot by definition rely on the wider forces of public opinion or law enforcement to protect it from predators within.

The upshot of which is that simply because the imperfect justice of law or prevailing social custom does not condone certain lifestyles, beliefs or consensual exchanges among adults, that is no excuse for dishonorable comportment among those who nonetheless exercise their moral liberty of free association.

As for motivations, like all businesses, it's here to turn a profit providing a service.

[Bob McV]

As with most internet forums it's an iceberg. maybe 10% of the membership is active. the rest just lurk, read ads, read reviews, or post ads.

There are many faults with the system. Sample size being a big one. it's the same 10% posting reviews. so reviews from a vocal minority will skew the data. Another fault is people get tunnel vision that this community is the alpha / omega of hobby in Austin. it's not.

I am not sure what MAD paradigm you see in how things work here, please elaborate.

I have been on "Online forums" since before there were pictures on the internet. (Usenet for the old school) And the same character archetypes are always represented. The Austin forum could easily be relaced with a video game forum, a car restoration forum, a dog breed forum, etc. We just happen to be talking about sex and not dogs (except when we talk about dogs)

As far as the site's motivation ( and it is eccie.net not .com) They are here to make money. The mod staff is volunteers to keep costs low, and shows that the content isn't of much importance. Larger forums (say for a hot video game) will have several paid forum moderators that spend their day reading everything and keeping people in line. They make money selling ads which means they want to keep both unique hits and repeat hits high. to justify banner ad prices. Also, I am sure a lot of men pay for accounts to real the whole reviews, knowing they would never post one for fear or lack of desire. I imagine a lot of these men probably rarely read a co-ed thread.

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

Good evening fair Ecciests,
I have an urge to (as some of you mother f*ckers like to say) Poke the Bear.

This whole Reference verifying / Provider Reviewing is based on the "honor amongst thieves" principle. It's like we are a band of pirates, where the collective good encourages participation and the following of rules.

Can anyone think of some underlying fault, logical conundrum, or betrayal which could disrupt this neat little system like a house of cards?

Does anybody else see the parallel to the 'Mutually Assured Destruction'', MAD, principle which 'guaranteed' global survival during the cold war?

Are there any other philosophical concepts of similar magnitude in play on this website?

Does anybody else wonder about the unique logical strategies and financial motivation going on behind the scenes at eccie.com?

-Mr. Peabody

hmmm....

Guys could simply refuse to provide references and see those that do not require them.... There is always a lady that needs a buck....

[shayla84]

call me slow but can you resay what your asking in dummy terms, pretend like your writing one of those books for dummys lol I dont understand what your asking sweetie

[Loxly]

Regardless of the site, it remains that the only thing better than "On 'er" is "In 'er".

Sites such as these just provide the vehicle for that end. Only your own personal experiences can place a value on its' members and info. It's like playing "Who do you Trust?" (Johnny Carson's first show)

[klovve]

This is a very interesting thread! In my opinion, there aren't any aspects of "hobbying" that can be used as a median or point of reference because there too many exceptions to the rules (outliers, if you will). Like the OP stated, what we see within this forum is only a fraction of the industry activity. On top of that, the Austin ECCIE forum is one of the most active Texas cities, so our "norm" shouldn't be compared to that of SA or Dallas. Then, on top of that, ECCIE is somewhat unique to Texas. I know there are several cities with a community but are any as active in this forum? I doubt it.

Reviews are an entirely separate issue and I have my own reservations with the politics that play into that process. From my perspective, they are best when served like scotch: too many and you have to muddle through a headache, but a few strategically placed stories can create and maintain a healthy buzz.

.02

[blenderhead]

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

Good evening fair Ecciests,
I have an urge to (as some of you mother f*ckers like to say) Poke the Bear.

This whole Reference verifying / Provider Reviewing is based on the "honor amongst thieves" principle. It's like we are a band of pirates, where the collective good encourages participation and the following of rules.

Can anyone think of some underlying fault, logical conundrum, or betrayal which could disrupt this neat little system like a house of cards?

Let's be real here. A lot of us are here because we're a little messed up in some way. We're sneaking around, lying, cheating, doing stuff that would wreck a lot of our lives if it became public. There's people with various addictions, whether that be substance abuse, sex addictions, or an addiction to power and control. Some have a huge need for attention and validation. There's messed up stuff going on here every single day, but for the most part it works. But every now and then I hear some fucked up shit about someone I thought was OK and it brings me back to reality and reminds me why I want to keep it strictly business and stay low profile. That way I don't have to worry about the house of cards falling down.

[klovve]

I have ways said that this is a brutally honest world built on complete dishonesty.

[playingnthedark]

Hi Lovve!

[cinnamonshark]

Originally Posted by shayla84

call me slow but can you resay what your asking in dummy terms, pretend like your writing one of those books for dummys lol I dont understand what your asking sweetie

I finally agree with Shayla84 on something. What the hell are you trying to say? You ask questions, but I see no relevance in them. Could you please restate your question and stick to one topic?

[JennsLolli]

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

Does anybody else see the parallel to the 'Mutually Assured Destruction'', MAD, principle which 'guaranteed' global survival during the cold war?

KLovve is right, this is an interesting thread! I was never an All Star at game theory, so I don't have much to add. BUT! One of ways I can see where the hobby and the discretion inherent in this gray market doesn't perfectly play out in the real world is the discrepancies between players and how they value privacy. Many of us here are living in the shadows -- afraid for a spouse, family, associates, or others to find us out. There are custody issues, LE issues, safety issues, etc. Others are either more open about their identity -- OK with showing face pics, quick to disclose RW info to new clients, open with family/friends about doin' it (like dirty doin' it), past record. Outing for one could be one of life's defining catastrophes, while outing for another could just be a really shitty Tuesday. It's impossible to expect compliance when risks for all players aren't equal.

Mutually assured destruction doesn't hold when one guy has a stick and the other has an arsenal for it's neither mutual or assured and we all have different things to lose.

[sunspots]

This is not rocket science ..It is possible that someone could get busted and set up other people that "trusted" them to save their own ass..

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

Good evening fair Ecciests,
I have an urge to (as some of you mother f*ckers like to say) Poke the Bear.

This whole Reference verifying / Provider Reviewing is based on the "honor amongst thieves" principle. It's like we are a band of pirates, where the collective good encourages participation and the following of rules.

Can anyone think of some underlying fault, logical conundrum, or betrayal which could disrupt this neat little system like a house of cards?

Does anybody else see the parallel to the 'Mutually Assured Destruction'', MAD, principle which 'guaranteed' global survival during the cold war?

Are there any other philosophical concepts of similar magnitude in play on this website?

Does anybody else wonder about the unique logical strategies and financial motivation going on behind the scenes at eccie.com?

-Mr. Peabody

[cinnamonshark]

Well, honestly, I do understand the last question that Mr. Peabody posted. I sometimes wonder, but I don't let it dominate my mind to where I have to start a thread about it. I just hobby happily and worry-free like most of us really should be doing.

Sorry that I didn't understand the other questions that Mr. Peabody posted. It seems that they were simply worded so that others besides Shayla and myself could figure it out. I'm so embarrassed right now that I'm actually turning scarlett.

[Mr Peabody]

So for Shayla and Cinnamonshark, while I am not the philosopher that Centaur or Loxly or Klovve are, I can provide the analogy of a popular series of movies, Oceans 11/12/13. In these movies, there is a large group of "thieves", each with their own skills. They work together towards their goal of stealing from "the Man"; the evil casinos in Las Vegas. We root for this team because we all recognize how corrupt the casinos really are. These Ocean members work together and often go beyond the call of duty to pull off the heist. They all get their share of the bounty and would never consider crossing their partners for a chance of greedily taking all the loot for themselves. This is the "honor" part.

All of us insiders have a vested interest is protecting the identities of the fellow board members.

In Oceans 12 the Ocean crew is under arrest in Italy and the character played by Matt Damon is intensely interrogated by a U.S. official. In the movie, it appears that he has spilled his guts and the team is being sent to prison in the U.S. This is what I meant as the house of cards collapsing. If someone here is somehow collecting compromising evidence or cooperating with LE that could damage people's business.

Cheers,
Mr. Peabody