If a client gets hurt in an incall, who is liable?

[ElisabethWhispers]

This afternoon, I tripped on a cord in my bedroom while entertaining. It was just part of my modem that I have stuck under the bed but a piece of the wiring had been moved and I fell on it. Just a little bit.

So that made me think. What if my client had fallen and tripped on something in my incall? Would that make me liable for his injury? I doubt that any of my clientele would actually wish to sue me for a broken ankle or rope burns or whatever might happen but I'm sure stranger things have happened.

Should I consider a type of insurance "just in case"?

Elisabeth

[ShysterJon]

Under Texas common law, a hobbyist in a provider's incall would have the status of a business invitee. An invitee is a person who is on the premises because of an express or implied invitation of the landowner and for the purpose of an expected benefit to the landowner. A shopper in a retail store who enters the premises during regular store hours is an example of an invitee. Because an invitee's presence on the premises is for the landowner's benefit, the landowner has a duty to:

* Forewarn the invitee of unreasonably dangerous conditions on the premises.
* Exercise reasonable care to protect the invitee on his or her property.
* Inspect the premises and eliminate any foreseeable hazards on the premises.

See "Premises Liability: Owner Liability for Personal Injury Accidents on Land," by Susan Bechard

To not fufill any of these duties could constitute negligence. "Landowner" is construed broadly to include whomever has control of the premises at the time of the mishap.

As for insurance, the homeowners policy for the premises should cover accidents, although there may be an exclusion if the premises are used for a commercial purpose.

[Sarcastro]

As noted, liability (if any) for a slip and fall would be covered under your homeowner's policy or (if your incall is a rental) your renter's policy, together with the costs of a legal defense; however, a criminal acts exclusion normally applies to injuries which may reasonably be expected to result from the criminal act of the insured.

I'll leave you to decide which types of injuries might be covered under the policy.

[texan361]

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

Under Texas common law, a hobbyist in a provider's incall would have the status of a business invitee. An invitee is a person who is on the premises because of an express or implied invitation of the landowner and for the purpose of an expected benefit to the landowner. A shopper in a retail store who enters the premises during regular store hours is an example of an invitee. Because an invitee's presence on the premises is for the landowner's benefit, the landowner has a duty to:

* Forewarn the invitee of unreasonably dangerous conditions on the premises.
* Exercise reasonable care to protect the invitee on his or her property.
* Inspect the premises and eliminate any foreseeable hazards on the premises.

See "Premises Liability: Owner Liability for Personal Injury Accidents on Land," by Susan Bechard

To not fufill any of these duties could constitute negligence. "Landowner" is construed broadly to include whomever has control of the premises at the time of the mishap.

As for insurance, the homeowners policy for the premises should cover accidents, although there may be an exclusion if the premises are used for a commercial purpose.

I agree with your analysis of premises liability however I don't think the client would have invitee status as a matter of law and as a matter of practicality would not try to claim to be an invitee as that would be an obvious admission of guilt. We all know that time was purchased and anything that happens between two consenting adults is not prostitution......jurors don't seem to grasp that concept.

[ElisabethWhispers]

Thank you for the input and advice!!!

Sincerely,
Elisabeth

[sky_wire]

Reading this thread is a good example of how people on these boards get lost in the fantasy world people call hobbying.

You always buy insurance, but that doesn’t mean they’ll pay a claim. Insurance companies make money by charging premiums and denying claims. Buried in the fine print of your policy will be references to the law regarding false statements and mail fraud. There will also be a policy waiver regarding criminal conduct. The people investigating claims might be assholes, but they are not morons. They are often former cops who have been around the block. They will spot an “incall” from a mile away.

You and injured geezer are going to have lie on the claim and send it through the mail. That automatically brings in mail fraud and the federal false statements act. The feds play hardball. There won’t be any sweet plea agreements like the shit you get from Craig Watkins.

Play it safe. Just stick to married men.

[ElisabethWhispers]

Originally Posted by sky_wire

Reading this thread is a good example of how people on these boards get lost in the fantasy world people call hobbying.

You always buy insurance, but that doesn’t mean they’ll pay a claim. Insurance companies make money by charging premiums and denying claims. Buried in the fine print of your policy will be references to the law regarding false statements and mail fraud. There will also be a policy waiver regarding criminal conduct. The people investigating claims might be assholes, but they are not morons. They are often former cops who have been around the block. They will spot an “incall” from a mile away.

You and injured geezer are going to have lie on the claim and send it through the mail. That automatically brings in mail fraud and the federal false statements act. The feds play hardball. There won’t be any sweet plea agreements like the shit you get from Craig Watkins.

Play it safe. Just stick to married men.

Who in the hell do you think that you are? Might wish to take a moment before making any "assumptions" about ME, my clientele and my actions.

Period.

Thanks.

Elisabeth

[sky_wire]

Originally Posted by ElisabethWhispers

Who in the hell do you think that you are? Might wish to take a moment before making any "assumptions" about ME, my clientele and my actions.

Period.

Thanks.

Elisabeth

You posted here for an opinion, and I gave you one. I spent some time thinking about what you asked and the legal consequences. I happen to know from first hand experience the legal snares people face when dealing with insurance companies. I tried to address not only your question, but provide a general answer to others who might be interested. My answer was sincere and, to the best of my knowledge, accurate.

If you're just gonna get snotty me for sincerely trying to help you--for FREE, go fuck yourself.

[ElisabethWhispers]

Before I show any snittiness, you might appreciate MY viewpoint. You suggested that I would LIE, commit fraud and state a false claim. It was insulting. I simply asked a question. I'm not guileful and nor do I try to figure out ways to skirt an insurance claim.

That wasn't my intent. It was a good question and meant in sincerity.

As far as your ending statement, might wish to rethink your stance.

Have a good weekend.

Elisabeth

[sky_wire]

Since I insulted you by suggesting that you would ever lie, I guess it’s fair to say that you will be completely truthful in your insurance application. You will explain in your application that your “incall” is a location where you meet “clients” to exchange sexual services for money. An insurance company will not insure you against claims arising out of criminal conduct.

So to answer your question: “Should I consider a type of insurance ‘just in case’?” The answer is NO. It might be nice to have, but no insurance company sells it.

SJ’s legal discussion is accurate, but not applicable to your situation—unless you lie on both the insurance application and the claim.

Texan361 debated a legal point with SJ, but then conceded, even if SJ is correct, claiming invitee status is an obvious admission of guilt. It’s an obvious admission of guilt for reasons I stated in my first paragraph. Notwithstanding Texan’s very thoughtful remarks, he did not respond to the insurance question.

Having said all that let me address your private message. I’m really tired of all the baby drama in this forum. If my comments have offended anybody, it wasn’t my intention. But if they did, go fuck yourself.

[ShysterJon]

I've enjoyed the discussion in this thread, but not the emotional language. I think being overly-sensitive, or overly-unpleasant, does nothing to add to the discussion. To me, it just distracts from the issues.

[sky_wire]

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

I've enjoyed the discussion in this thread, but not the emotional language. I think being overly-sensitive, or overly-unpleasant, does nothing to add to the discussion. To me, it just distracts from the issues.

SJ, I'm just tired of having to tip toe around egos. I give someone legal advice for free and she flames me here and threatens me with a sanction in a PM.

You're a smart person, did I ever call her a liar? I basically said that lying would be necessary to collect a claim, given the hypothetical.

If anyone still feels upset, please call my legal complaint hotline: 1-800-EAT-SHIT.

[ShysterJon]

No, you never called Elisabeth a liar, and I think your advice is sound. I can especially relate to giving free legal advice to a provider and not getting even a thank you in return. I think if you and I were sitting in a bar (or in a courtroom, away from the hearing of others), your language would be fine. There's certainly nothing in what you wrote that could in any way lead to a sanction.

btw, I've known EW for more than 30 years. We went to rival local high schools. She's my friend, but she will tell you that probably more than anyone ever has I've been brutally frank with her always which has sometimes hurt her feelings. But that's a personal matter. I think here we should have thick skins and put personal matters aside.

[Kurrin Beverly]

On topic: There is not one insurance policy available to us that will cover illegal activity.

Off topic: the "drama" in this thread is actually subtle compared to the "drama" in the threads on the Houston forum. I have to come to the National Level just to catch my breath.

[knowshisstuff]

Originally Posted by Sarcastro

As noted, liability (if any) for a slip and fall would be covered under your homeowner's policy or (if your incall is a rental) your renter's policy, together with the costs of a legal defense; however, a criminal acts exclusion normally applies to injuries which may reasonably be expected to result from the criminal act of the insured.

I'll leave you to decide which types of injuries might be covered under the policy.

Illegal act or not, the homeowner insurance policy would cover the liability of injuries and and judgement should the a-hole go to civil court. Just to reassure you on how effective that policy can be consider this. Let's say you have an auto accident but the damage to the other car is more than your chosen coverage, your homeowners insurance can help you with the liability amount in excess of your policy.

BUT as a secondary insurance policy, you could always get your visitor in an embarrassing pose and take blackmail photos. After all, some of us WANT to come over and get hurt. Blackmail photos would just add nicely to the scenario.