I love the Confederate Battle Flag and i am not a racist

[5T3V3]

First let me say that if you are black and you hate the Confederate Battle Flag - I understand. We all agree that slavery is horrible. It was a world wide institution that barely exists today. And excluding current issues of Human Trafficking, there has not been a slave in this country for over 135 years. I am sorry that to you the Flag represents only slavery.

For me, the Confederate Battle Flag represents a belief in states rights and certain independence from the federal governments interference. You see the situation that existed in the United States Pre Civil War was that the entire country was debating the issue of slavery. (as it had since it inception see Article 1 section 9 of the US constitution) Many northern states had outlawed slavery and were pressing the US government to outlaw slavery nationally. Most of the northern states did not rely on slave labor they used poor immigrates as their slave substitutes - hence the term "slave wages". And slave importation had ceased back in 1808, so no new salve were coming here. The trouble was they didn't have the votes to outlaw slavery. And there were great debates about what the effect of 4 million newly freed slaves might be on the economy and where they would go once freed. (the north didn't really want them and wanted to insure that they would stay in the south or be sent back to Africa) Slavery could only be abolished via amendment, so the US or Federal government began to govern the slavery issue via executive orders, taxation and by insuring that new territories would not allow slavery in order to join the union. So, rather than work to get an amendment passed, they subverted the process and the constitution.

Now keep in mind this government was barely 50 years old - think World War II in our time. And the Constitution they signed and agreed to in becoming part of the US was not being followed and was not worth in their estimation the paper it was written on. So, they said if you aren't going to follow the constitution then we quit. It is that independent attitude. It is that belief that the Constitution needs to be honored and followed rather than interpreted to mean whatever you need it to mean. It is the belief that one group (the north) had no business enacting legislation that didn't effect them directly (the south)

If this story sounds to you a little like it could have been written about our Government as it is today - I award a gold star! If you don't see that then please don't even comment your mind is closed and I really don't care what you think and probably wont even read your comment, because YOU are the problem, and the reason why I love the Confederate Battle Flag --- because YOU seeing the flag as celebrating slavery is YOUR problem and not mine. BUT when YOU start to feel that YOUR discomfort requires ME to change to accommodate YOU that is where I say FUCK YOU and proudly raise my Confederate Battle Flag - not to call you a slave or to support slavery but to say I'LL RUN MY LIFE and YOU RUN YOURS!

[Jackie S]

Originally Posted by 5T3V3

First let me say that if you are black and you hate the Confederate Battle Flag - I understand. We all agree that slavery is horrible. It was a world wide institution that barely exists today. And excluding current issues of Human Trafficking, there has not been a slave in this country for over 135 years. I am sorry that to you the Flag represents only slavery.

For me, the Confederate Battle Flag represents a belief in states rights and certain independence from the federal governments interference. You see the situation that existed in the United States Pre Civil War was that the entire country was debating the issue of slavery. (as it had since it inception see Article 1 section 9 of the US constitution) Many northern states had outlawed slavery and were pressing the US government to outlaw slavery nationally. Most of the northern states did not rely on slave labor they used poor immigrates as their slave substitutes - hence the term "slave wages". And slave importation had ceased back in 1808, so no new salve were coming here. The trouble was they didn't have the votes to outlaw slavery. And there were great debates about what the effect of 4 million newly freed slaves might be on the economy and where they would go once freed. (the north didn't really want them and wanted to insure that they would stay in the south or be sent back to Africa) Slavery could only be abolished via amendment, so the US or Federal government began to govern the slavery issue via executive orders, taxation and by insuring that new territories would not allow slavery in order to join the union. So, rather than work to get an amendment passed, they subverted the process and the constitution.

Now keep in mind this government was barely 50 years old - think World War II in our time. And the Constitution they signed and agreed to in becoming part of the US was not being followed and was not worth in their estimation the paper it was written on. So, they said if you aren't going to follow the constitution then we quit. It is that independent attitude. It is that belief that the Constitution needs to be honored and followed rather than interpreted to mean whatever you need it to mean. It is the belief that one group (the north) had no business enacting legislation that didn't effect them directly (the south)

If this story sounds to you a little like it could have been written about our Government as it is today - I award a gold star! If you don't see that then please don't even comment your mind is closed and I really don't care what you think and probably wont even read your comment, because YOU are the problem, and the reason why I love the Confederate Battle Flag --- because YOU seeing the flag as celebrating slavery is YOUR problem and not mine. BUT when YOU start to feel that YOUR discomfort requires ME to change to accommodate YOU that is where I say FUCK YOU and proudly raise my Confederate Battle Flag - not to call you a slave or to support slavery but to say I'LL RUN MY LIFE and YOU RUN YOURS!

You make some valid points. There is quite a bit of revisionist history when it comes to the War Between the States. But one thing we can all agree on is the institution of Slavery was, at it's roots, an evil concept, born out of ignorance and a willingness to treat other Human Beings like domesticated animals.

The youth of the Country in 1861 is a valid point as well. Many in the South saw the Federal Government as just another version of totalitarian rule. Just 50 years prior, they had fought a Revolution to end that, believing in freedom of the individule.

In the movie Gettysburg, General Longstreet told the British Atacche' to the Confederacy......"we can't take the high moral argument as long as the institution of Slavery exist. We should have freed the Slaves, and THEN fired on Fort Sumptner".

For myself, and as a Son of the South, I am glad the South lost that War. Because the way I see it, I am first an American, then a Texan, and then from the South.

[timpage]

Nobody is going to waste time trying to convince an idiot like you that you're wrong. Fly your flag in your front yard by your trailer or on your pick-up truck.... nobody gives a shit and that's not what this discussion is about you fucking half-wit. We're talking about prohibiting the use of the confederate battle flag as a symbol of government....like at the South Carolina statehouse? You know? Is this all moving along too quickly for you?

Originally Posted by 5T3V3

First let me say that if you are black and you hate the Confederate Battle Flag - I understand. We all agree that slavery is horrible. It was a world wide institution that barely exists today. And excluding current issues of Human Trafficking, there has not been a slave in this country for over 135 years. I am sorry that to you the Flag represents only slavery.

For me, the Confederate Battle Flag represents a belief in states rights and certain independence from the federal governments interference. You see the situation that existed in the United States Pre Civil War was that the entire country was debating the issue of slavery. (as it had since it inception see Article 1 section 9 of the US constitution) Many northern states had outlawed slavery and were pressing the US government to outlaw slavery nationally. Most of the northern states did not rely on slave labor they used poor immigrates as their slave substitutes - hence the term "slave wages". And slave importation had ceased back in 1808, so no new salve were coming here. The trouble was they didn't have the votes to outlaw slavery. And there were great debates about what the effect of 4 million newly freed slaves might be on the economy and where they would go once freed. (the north didn't really want them and wanted to insure that they would stay in the south or be sent back to Africa) Slavery could only be abolished via amendment, so the US or Federal government began to govern the slavery issue via executive orders, taxation and by insuring that new territories would not allow slavery in order to join the union. So, rather than work to get an amendment passed, they subverted the process and the constitution.

Now keep in mind this government was barely 50 years old - think World War II in our time. And the Constitution they signed and agreed to in becoming part of the US was not being followed and was not worth in their estimation the paper it was written on. So, they said if you aren't going to follow the constitution then we quit. It is that independent attitude. It is that belief that the Constitution needs to be honored and followed rather than interpreted to mean whatever you need it to mean. It is the belief that one group (the north) had no business enacting legislation that didn't effect them directly (the south)

If this story sounds to you a little like it could have been written about our Government as it is today - I award a gold star! If you don't see that then please don't even comment your mind is closed and I really don't care what you think and probably wont even read your comment, because YOU are the problem, and the reason why I love the Confederate Battle Flag --- because YOU seeing the flag as celebrating slavery is YOUR problem and not mine. BUT when YOU start to feel that YOUR discomfort requires ME to change to accommodate YOU that is where I say FUCK YOU and proudly raise my Confederate Battle Flag - not to call you a slave or to support slavery but to say I'LL RUN MY LIFE and YOU RUN YOURS!

[shanm]

Originally Posted by timpage

Nobody is going to waste time trying to convince an idiot like you that you're wrong. Fly your flag in your front yard by your trailer or on your pick-up truck.... nobody gives a shit and that's not what this discussion is about you fucking half-wit. We're talking about prohibiting the use of the confederate battle flag as a symbol of government....like at the South Carolina statehouse? You know? Is this all moving along too quickly for you?

+1

No one gives a fuck if you want to proudly display a flag. You're just proving that you are an ignorant hillbilly, but even still, you have a right to do so.

The question is whether or not it should stand for a government that now represents folks of all colors and not "white only" like the flag once stood for.
Keep putting it in your titty bars and your pickups, they're actually helpful to the rest of us looking to avoid these embarrassing white trash localities. I would never want to associate myself with anyone who "loves" the confederate flag, so you can take your pomposity and shove it where the sun never shines.

P.S this is a public forum. If you don't want people to "comment" then keep your mouth shut and don't post bullshit like this in the first place.

[i'va biggen]

If you wish to celebrate defeat it is ok with me, fly it and think about coming in second.

[slingblade]

There is no connection between the "Confederate" flag and and racism, besides the lies Lincoln told everyone.
By the way the flag that is causing a stink is the battle flag of Northern Virginia. This whole debacle is a product of conservatives convincing people shit that is simply not true.
Right down to masses of rednecks not even knowing what flag they worship. In other words by flying the flag that they do they are declaring they are at war with America or at least at war with the Republicans. LOL!

[5T3V3]

Originally Posted by timpage

Nobody is going to waste time trying to convince an idiot like you that you're wrong. BUT YOU WILL WASTE TIME CALLING ME NAMES - THAT SEEMS INTELLGENT Fly your flag in your front yard by your trailer or on your pick-up truck. STERO TYPE NOT EVEN VALID NO PICK UP NO TRAILER I DONT EVEN FLY THE FLAG I SIMPLY MAKE THE POINT THAT IT MEANS SOMETHING DIFFERENT TO ME - GET THE FUCK OVER IT... nobody gives a shit and that's not what this discussion is about you fucking half-wit. I AM THE HALF WIT, AND YOU HAVE YET TO MAKE A COGENT ARGUEMENT? We're (YOU ARE - YOU THINK YOU CAN SPEAK FOR EVERYBODY THAT'S THE PROBLEM) talking about prohibiting the use of the confederate battle flag as a symbol of government WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT IT? BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE SAYING IT IS A SYMBOL OF SLAVERY OR IS INHERANTLY RACIST TO SOME PEOPLE - I ELQUENTLY STATE THAT IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT TO EVERYONE BY SHOWING YOU WHAT IT MEANS TO ME WHICH LEAVES ONLY 2 OPTIONS INTELLEGENTLY REFUTE MY POSITION WHICH YOU OBVIOUSLY COULDNT DO OR CALL ME NAMES ....like at the South Carolina statehouse? I DONT WEIGHT IN ON SOUTH CAROLINA BECAUSE I DONT LIVE IN SOUTH CAROLINA SO IT ISN'T MY FIGHT - SOUTH CAROLINA CAN DO WHAT IT WANTS, BUT I WIEGH IN NOW BECAUSE I KNOW ONE DAY THE FIGHT WILL COME TO ME You know? I KNOW Is this all moving along too quickly for you? IF THE MOVEMENT IS THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO BE "BIG BROTHER" AND REGULATE & CONTROL EVERY ASPECT OF OUR LIVES, OR IF LITTLE PISSY WEANIES LIKE YOU THAT FEEL LIKE SOMETHING OFFENDS THEM ARE GOING FORCE ME TO BOW TO YOUR WILL OR BE ABBUSED, THEN YES IT IS MOVING TOOO FAST FOR ME.

Question is why now after 40 years? Is it a logical reasoned decision or it an emotional one? You certainly seem emotional about it. Try to see and understand how I feel and where I am coming from. It is not a place of evil - it is a place of not wanting mob rule - it is a place of learning from the lessons Rome taught us. If you have an intelligent counter point to make please make it.

Originally Posted by shanm

+1

No one gives a fuck if you want to proudly display a flag. yet! nobody is going to force you to buy insurance either. You're just proving that you are an ignorant hillbilly, but even still, you have a right to do so. to fly the flag or to prove I am an ignorant hillbilly? what a childish argument to make such a waste of people time.

The question is whether or not it should stand for a government that now represents folks of all colors and not "white only" like the flag once stood for. So two months ago it was OK that it represent only whites but not it is not? Keep putting it in your titty bars and your pickups, they're actually helpful to the rest of us looking to avoid these embarrassing white trash localities. Sir you show your ignorance of the south, I suppose you also think we tie our horses to the hitching post. And if you know it really isn't like that why would you make such a foolish statement? to make me mad? Why would I get made about you showing YOUR ignorance? I would never want to associate myself with anyone who "loves" the confederate flag, so you can take your pomposity and shove it where the sun never shines. Angry? It sounds like it to me. Again rather than offering a counter point to mine you resort to name calling and I am the hillbilly?

P.S this is a public forum. If you don't want people to "comment" then keep your mouth shut and don't post bullshit like this in the first place. try and put down the hater aid long enough to consider that someone with a counter opinion to yours might have a valid perspective different then yours - I was trying to avoid having to wade through ignorance such as you and your suck buddy present that bring nothing but name calling and unintelligence to the party. Anyways, sometimes it is easier to ask you guys NOT to post, because you tend to get mad and then we get to see your true colors when you type the kind of ignorance you just did ... thank you ... you both prove my point that it is all about emotion and has nothing to do with reason or intelligence. just like Lincoln freeing the slaves had nothing to do with abolishing slavery, but rather winning the war.

My question is this ... Why is this important now! Why are we talking about it NOW ... if it was such a huge deal why wasn't South Carolina talking about it for the last 10 years ... and does anyone outside of South Carolina really need to take part in the discussion - I would argue no - it is really not any more their business then it is your business if I choose to fly the stars and bars - and you feeling that you can dictate into situations that don't effect you directly is what leads to fascism and it is what led to the civil war itself.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by slingblade

There is no connection between the "Confederate" flag and and racism, besides the lies Lincoln told everyone.
By the way the flag that is causing a stink is the battle flag of Northern Virginia. This whole debacle is a product of conservatives convincing people shit that is simply not true.
Right down to masses of rednecks not even knowing what flag they worship. In other words by flying the flag that they do they are declaring they are at war with America or at least at war with the Republicans. LOL!

You'd be the historically illiterate moron thinking the rectangular flag in question in SC simulates the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia -- which was square.

[slingblade]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

You'd be the historically illiterate moron thinking the rectangular flag in question in SC simulates the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia -- which was square.

Incredible are you joking? I am not surprised that you are that off base. The Confederate flag was a cross star pattern (square), in the corner of a white flag then later had a red stripe added to it The original had a circle of stars in blue and two red and one white stripes.

By the way what is with the name calling bullshit. There is nothing in my post that should have offended you, and even if it did you show who you are by the way you
address people.

[JD Barleycorn]

The left gets wee weed up when it comes to the Confederate flag. History and accuracy be damned. That seems to be the only when the left/democrats (who supported slavery oddly enough) think that they have the moral high ground.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by slingblade

Incredible are you joking? I am not surprised that you are that off base. The Confederate flag was a cross star pattern (square), in the corner of a white flag then later had a red stripe added to it The original had a circle of stars in blue and two red and one white stripes.

This image from Charleston shows a rectangular flag.






This is the square Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia

BTW, you'd be the moron casting "redneck" aspersions in your posts.

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

The left gets wee weed up when it comes to the Confederate flag. History and accuracy be damned. That seems to be the only when the left/democrats (who supported slavery oddly enough) think that they have the moral high ground.

You're still lying about who really supported what. You've been instructed on what the truth was, but you've chosen to remain ignorant.

[slingblade]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

This image from Charleston shows a rectangular flag.






This is the square Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia

BTW, you'd be the moron casting "redneck" aspersions in your posts.

Well they are not flying a confederate flag then. You do realize that I do not share the same opinion as the "liberals" as you call them. As for the redneck comment it was not directed at you but if the shoe fits.....

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by slingblade

Well they are not flying a confederate flag then. You do realize that I do not share the same opinion as the "liberals" as you call them. As for the redneck comment it was not directed at you but if the shoe fits.....

Called you a "historically illiterate moron"; not a "liberal", but if the shoe fits ...

[slingblade]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

The left gets wee weed up when it comes to the Confederate flag. History and accuracy be damned. That seems to be the only when the left/democrats (who supported slavery oddly enough) think that they have the moral high ground.

Wrong, the Republicans have told the slavery lie for so long that they believe it and have convinced a lot of folks that it had something to do with slavery. Like I said earlier I have no problem with the "rebel" flag as a art piece or as a statement. The only reason I refrain from it is out of respect.



http://www.rulen.com/myths/

http://www.dixiescv.org/slavery.html