This might be a big mistake...

[AveryMoore]

but I'm going to ask:

Not long ago, a gentleman contacted me with the regular screening information and two provider references. One of his references only advertised on eros (did not have a main website) and one of the images on her ad was nothing but a rebel flag. Not her wrapped in the flag or her holding the flag; just the flag.

Some of you may know how Eros works on the advertising end: you're allowed a certain number of pictures and beyond that you have to pay extra per picture. This woman had elected to pay (not too much, probably $20/month) more than the base advertising fee in order to include this image. So clearly, the flag was of tremendous importance to her and how she wanted to present herself. I would imagine it worked like a charm in terms of steering clients of color to other providers. It also worked like a charm in terms of making me incredibly uncomfortable that the man interested in meeting me also chose to see this woman. I contacted her with his information and she was pleasant and friendly in her reply. But I cannot shake my conviction that rebel flag=nostalgia for slavery, and therefore a promotion of/belief in the inherent inhumanity of black people. And I cannot tell you how big a turn off was to think that this potential client of mine endorsed that view.

I grew up in an area where people often displayed the Confederate flag! I've heard all the arguments about the flag being a mark of Southern pride/pride in one's heritage, as though the symbol can be entirely extricated from the issue of slavery. But I couldn't then, nor can I now, wrap my head around anyone being proud of this aspect of their history.

So I know that's long-winded but I thought this would be a good place to ask. How do you all feel about the rebel flag?

[charlestudor2005]

Much the same as you...but I'm a Union boy, born & bred.

[Sa_artman]

Originally Posted by AveryMoore

but I'm going to ask:

Not long ago, a gentleman contacted me with the regular screening information and two provider references. One of his references only advertised on eros (did not have a main website) and one of the images on her ad was nothing but a rebel flag. Not her wrapped in the flag or her holding the flag; just the flag.

Some of you may know how Eros works on the advertising end: you're allowed a certain number of pictures and beyond that you have to pay extra per picture. This woman had elected to pay (not too much, probably $20/month) more than the base advertising fee in order to include this image. So clearly, the flag was of tremendous importance to her and how she wanted to present herself. I would imagine it worked like a charm in terms of steering clients of color to other providers. It also worked like a charm in terms of making me incredibly uncomfortable that the man interested in meeting me also chose to see this woman. I contacted her with his information and she was pleasant and friendly in her reply. But I cannot shake my conviction that rebel flag=nostalgia for slavery, and therefore a promotion of/belief in the inherent inhumanity of black people. And I cannot tell you how big a turn off was to think that this potential client of mine endorsed that view.

I grew up in an area where people often displayed the Confederate flag! I've heard all the arguments about the flag being a mark of Southern pride/pride in one's heritage, as though the symbol can be entirely extricated from the issue of slavery. But I couldn't then, nor can I now, wrap my head around anyone being proud of this aspect of their history.

So I know that's long-winded but I thought this would be a good place to ask. How do you all feel about the rebel flag?

I would start ducking now before the beer bottles start flying. Your probably not going to find a lot of solidarity on this Southern leaning board. Personally, I find it much like any other antiquated symbol that people embrace so they feel connected to something 'larger' than themselves. But, whatever floats their boat. Keep in mind slaves were enlisted in the Confederate Army, whether by choice or not, they did fly the colors. I'm sure there are better historians than me on this board who will chime in on that. Now, modern day secessionists are idiots. That is a fact.

[Krunkman]

I've lived most of my life in the south. I'm a student of history and have gone outside the south, to other states, other countries, and other continents. With that being said, I would say that in my opinion, most people who display the Confederate flag do so out of an attempt to show support for rebellion rather than slavery.

If you recall, the main issue that started the wedge of division between north and south was not slavery - it was the feeling of southerners that their northern neighbors were trying to dictate to them and tell them what to do. Slave owners were the wealthy, and comprised a significant minority of the south's population base. But it was southerner's in general who felt the north was pushing their ways down upon them. Slavery wasn't the primary issue.

And I believe it to be the same with people who want to display the confederate flag. It's merely a way they can annoy others, that they can flaunt whatever it is they are wanting to flaunt. And don't forget some people just like to annoy others. The actual number of people who equate the flag with slavery would be quite small I think. And those that really see it as such are wanting to see it.

If you just shrug and ignore the issue, it usually tends to go away on its own. If they aren't getting a rise out of you, then it gets boring and they move on to something else.

[Mr. Smith111]

I know people with rebel flags, some are racist and some aren't. I don't have one and don't give it much thought either way. The hobbyist who saw the girl with the flag was probably more concerned with how her ass looked and the quality of a bbbj than what her politics are. I don't think a providers views on most things would sway my decision to see her as much as a cbj.
I do see your point but you may be reading to much into it. Just my 2 cents.

[oden]

Talk about a loaded issue. I will assume that you are referring to some version of the battle flag that the Army of Northern Virginia adopted after 1st Manassas. I think to many southerners this represents a fierce independence and a modern day expression of not being told what to do or think; the ultimate political incorrectness.

Unfortunately, some pretty unsavory groups have adopted it for their modern day bigotry and hate. It makes it hard to tell. Are they people who think its cool and spend their free time watching The Dukes of Hazard reruns or are they closet Nazi, skinhead Klan members? David Duke or The Dixie Chicks?

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by AveryMoore

How do you all feel about the rebel flag?

I personally like the rebel flag as a symbol of southern pride...and I'm damn proud to be a southerner. Much like I am proud to be a Texan, an American, etc.

That does not mean I am proud of everything any of those groups may represent to others. But I don't shun the southern pride because of some aspects that were bad historically in the south. No more than I would shun the American flag because of bad things we did to indians...or only counting blacks as 3/5ths of a person in the constitution, etc. The history of any culture has good aspects...and bad aspects. I take pride in the good ones and the rebel flag represents those qualities to me.

I do recognize though, that it represents something more sinister to some others. While it probably does not quite carry the stigma that a swastica might carry (a symbol that at one time might have had a significantly different universal representation than it does today), the rebel flag does carry a stigma of sorts that I wish it did not. Because I like the thing.

[AveryMoore]

Originally Posted by Sa_artman

I would start ducking now before the beer bottles start flying. Your probably not going to find a lot of solidarity on this Southern leaning board. Personally, I find it much like any other antiquated symbol that people embrace so they feel connected to something 'larger' than themselves. But, whatever floats their boat. Keep in mind slaves were enlisted in the Confederate Army, whether by choice or not, they did fly the colors. I'm sure there are better historians than me on this board who will chime in on that. Now, modern day secessionists are idiots. That is a fact.

I am amused that everything you say has that head-banging kitten's endorsement. If only there were a smiley face option that conveyed the same thing. This one's not quite got the same flair

I guess an even less contentious way to broach the topic might have been to ask advice on whether or not I should have let the client know about my discomfort. I thought about doing so—since I tend to be a little too honest for my own good—but decided against it. Not to deny that the man might have had a motivating interest in "bbbj" as Mr. Nasty contends, but he was asking for a very long date, so we'd have had to try to enjoy each other's company in other ways at some point. He'd had similarly long sessions with his references, so I assume he found their personalities somewhat palatable.

I even thought of asking the provider directly, not in an accusatory way but just out of curiosity...but figured I might not like the response!

Good points, Krunkman, although I guess my long-time East Coastness comes out when I say, I thought this symbol was the more ubiquitous sign of rebellion:

Get pissed! Destroy!

[Ansley]

I give up. Where does that symbol come from?

[Grathic]

I have to admit as I read the original post I am reminded of a quote from my favorite movie of all time, The Abyss.

Lindsey Brigman: We all see what we want to see. Coffey looks and he sees Russians. He sees hate and fear. You have to look with better eyes than that.

[Mr. Smith111]

Avery, I really didn't think about a long date. I didn't think most ladies agreed to long dates for first meetings. I can see where if you were spending the night, or several hours with someone you really did not like, it wouldn't be a good experience. In that situation you should ask him, or the reference about it, and decide from that if you want to proceed.

[AveryMoore]

Originally Posted by Grathic

I have to admit as I read the original post I am reminded of a quote from my favorite movie of all time, The Abyss.

Lindsey Brigman: We all see what we want to see. Coffey looks and he sees Russians. He sees hate and fear. You have to look with better eyes than that.

I see your point, but, to be fair, I didn't say that I hear a Southern accent and assume someone's a racist. And if I felt certain I knew that everyone displaying the rebel flag was racist, I wouldn't have asked the question. I guess I didn't explain it well enough in my first post, but the bottom line is that I don't understand the mentality that allows for one aspect of the secession to be celebrated while pretending another aspect wasn't a crucial component. To me, the ugly taint of slavery stains the whole endeavor. And maybe I will never understand it, but that's why I wanted to broach the subject. To try to better understand.

I also think the debate about the svastika is interesting, because it was and is a religious symbol in much of the Eastern world and stands for nothing Nazi-like. However, most Westerners can only think of the Holocaust when they see a svastika, either because they don't know about this other use or because they simply can't undo the connotation in their own head. I've seen some people argue that there's no way for the symbol to be redeemed and that Easterns should essentially give it up. Clearly, that's an unreasonable and extreme response, and I don't agree, but I understand the strong emotional reaction to the symbol. Of course, it's a very different situation than that of the rebel flag (by which I mean, according to wikipedia, the battle flag, not the original stars and bars.)

Ansley, it's the symbol for anarchy! Yay, anarchy... I'm off to break some Starbucks storefronts.

[AveryMoore]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

That does not mean I am proud of everything any of those groups may represent to others. But I don't shun the southern pride because of some aspects that were bad historically in the south. No more than I would shun the American flag because of bad things we did to indians...or only counting blacks as 3/5ths of a person in the constitution, etc. The history of any culture has good aspects...and bad aspects. I take pride in the good ones and the rebel flag represents those qualities to me.

That is a great point, Rudyard, thank you! And that probably is the most succinct explanation I've ever heard re: the rebel flag. I really appreciate it. I never thought of the parallels before, but I generally call myself a feminist in spite of the mistakes the feminist movement has made in the past, and surely will keep making in the future. (One of which is a general hostility towards everyone in the sex industry, although that's changing more and more.) Really clear and illuminating—you made me glad I wrote the original post

It also made me think of this article that made many, many people extremely angry. I suppose the choice to fly a flag in support of it's good history should be just as valid a decision as to not fly a flag because of its bad past.....

[WTF]

Originally Posted by AveryMoore

. . . but the bottom line is that I don't understand the mentality that allows for one aspect of the secession to be celebrated while pretending another aspect wasn't a crucial component. To me, the ugly taint of slavery stains the whole endeavor And maybe I will never understand it, but that's why I wanted to broach the subject. To try to better understand.

.

Does the fact that there are women forced into prostitution cause you to dislike all forms of prostitution?

Originally Posted by AveryMoore

but I generally call myself a feminist in spite of the mistakes the feminist movement has made in the past, and surely will keep making in the future. (One of which is a general hostility towards everyone in the sex industry, although that's changing more and more.)

.....

Thats the spirit....think gray!

[TexTushHog]

I think that given it's history, it's incredibly bad taste for anyone to prominently display that flag in any context other than a historical display. It's like a swastika in western culture -- you can't extricate the "good" thing it allegedly represents from the bad. It's like trying to strain piss form milk.

And this isn't the first discussion that has been had on this board about the subject of a provider displaying this particular symbol:

http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?...highlight=flag starting at post #15.