Kudos chicago, Fuck Philly

[JohnnyCap]

Ditka's number is being retired tonight, and much approbation to him, well done good sir.

Just reminds me why I was stunned when Philly retired McNabb fucktard's number a few months ago. A few of you agreed with me here. McShitTard wasn't as good a player as Ditka, didn't have any coaching career, and has never said a sentence that makes a much sense as Ditka when Mike's dead drunk. But Donovan's a victim of racism, so he gets more cred.

I believe Chicago is doing it right; take the time to make sure you honor the best.

[GP]

Philadelphia:
White alone, percent, 2012 (a) 45.7%
Black or African American alone, percent, 2012 (a) 44.3%
American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent, 2012 (a) 0.8%
Asian alone, percent, 2012 (a) 6.8%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone, percent, 2012 (a) 0.1%
Two or More Races, percent, 2012 2.3%
Hispanic or Latino, percent, 2012 (b) 13.0%
White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent, 2012 36.6%


Chicago:
White alone, percent, 2010 (a) 45.0%
Black or African American alone, percent, 2010 (a) 32.9%
American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent, 2010 (a) 0.5%
Asian alone, percent, 2010 (a) 5.5%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone, percent, 2010 (a) Z
Two or More Races, percent, 2010 2.7%
Hispanic or Latino, percent, 2010 (b) 28.9%
White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent, 2010 31.7%


Not sure if these stats help or not, but I have always heard that Philadelphia is a predominantly black city.

[awl4knot]

JohnnyCap and GP,

this is an astounding thread marked by racism and ignorant stereotyping. Ditka was a tremendous football player and entertaining personality and he deserves to be honored by the Bears but how does that relate to McNabb and the demographics of Philadelphia? the decision to retire a player's number is made by the team's owners and not by the public. So GP's demographic comparison and anecdotal stereotyping is meaningless and just plays into the OP's rampant racism.

The combination of Andy Reid and McNabb transformed the Eagles into an elite team for close to a decade. They made the owner lots of money. McNabb holds Philly's records for career yards, attempts, completions and TD's. He was a role model who didn't make the police blotters or tabloids. He had the bad luck to be paired with the toxic and jealous TO and to lose his skills to multiple injuries. So from the owner's point of view, there were ample reasons to honor him as one of the greatest Eagles. Others are not so sure but they don't own the team.

Now, here is some irony for you with an upstate connection. The truly transformational tight end who was Ditka's contemporary was another black athlete from Syracuse, John Mackey.

[hittingcoach]

McNabb was a great QB. I might get where a Philly fan would say "but we never won the big one", but so what. Jim Kelly still walks on water here and he never won anything either. Sorry guys Afc Championships do not count no matter how badly we want them to.

[JohnnyCap]

Hmmm. I missed my mark. But I was labeled a racist so its not all bad. (i'm not a racist but I can take heart that someone thinks me so passionate; obviously the last statement motivated more demographic talk than football talk)

Many good points have been made about McNabb every time this comes up. I agree he was a talented man. Based on his SU play, I thought he had 'it'. He might have had 'it', that stuff of champions, but if he did he lost it to money and fame. He became more flash and style than grit and determination. I do not respect that, especially in a person that has won nothing. I think he is probably a much better human than Mike Ditka, by many accounts a miserable mean drunk the first fifty years of his life, if not longer; I don't know, both men did good. But to play football, I'd take Ditka on my team as he is today today before Donovan in his prime.

The Eagles you mention were a flash in the pan and not competitive for a decade. Based on what I see in Kansas City right now, I'll put most of the credit for Philly's short, incomplete success in Andy Reid's hands. Fat white fuckers everywhere, WTF? I agree with the sentiment on Jim Kelly, by all accounts I've ever heard, an intolerable asshole of a human, though I never met him. But his success was with one team and more unique; I see post-Eagle Donovan as a stain on his own career, and in any case Donovan's stretch was NFC championship games, only one superbowl.

My point, very poorly stated in the OP, is that I admire a team honoring its players deliberately and with great care. I believe a few decades should pass before a number is retired; by the time Donovan is Ditka's age, the Eagles might feild three qbs whose numbers embarrass Donovan. But as you said, it is up to the team's owner. He gets to do as he wants, then I get to say it's a pussy faggot decision.

Speaking of which, how is the word faggot going? Can I use it here? I know its on the way out, whatever, I mean no sweeping anti-homo (homo perjurative, homosexual not? no abbreviating in gay land?) sentiment.

Finally, I dig Philadehia as a city, great history, great homeless people, great geography, great lap dances in south philly.

[GP]

Originally Posted by awl4knot

So GP's demographic comparison and anecdotal stereotyping is meaningless and just plays into the OP's rampant racism.

I didn't detect any racism from the OP. My copy and paste of the demographics was not feeding his "racism", I was only putting it out there for people to take it or leave it. I also stated I don't know if it helps or not, but why not let everyone draw their own conclusions. Pulling out the race card all the time gives it less meaning and I am not going to say it doesn't exist, I KNOW IT DOES. I just didn't see it here.

[awl4knot]

Not sure if these stats help or not, but I have always heard that Philadelphia is a predominantly black city.

Originally Posted by GP

I didn't detect any racism from the OP. My copy and paste of the demographics was not feeding his "racism", I was only putting it out there for people to take it or leave it. I also stated I don't know if it helps or not, but why not let everyone draw their own conclusions. Pulling out the race card all the time gives it less meaning and I am not going to I say it doesn't exist, I KNOW IT DOES. I just didn't see it here.

Horse feathers, don't bull shit a bull shitter. If you didn't detect any racism, or thought race wasn't a factor, why was there a need to show that Philly has more blacks than Chicago? And why did you offer the observation that it is a predominantly black city? The only possible link is to the OP's comment that McNabb is the victim of racism and gets the cred. So what you were throwing out was the implication that in a predominantly black city blacks get special treatment, no?

and I can be corrected on this but the remark that I remember was the "black on black crime" that related to TO's attack, and I think that May have come from McNabb's family. I dunno, maybe he complained about racism in DC and I missed it. But he did not want to be labelled a "black" quarterback.

The decision to retire "5" was a bit controversial as some thought it was too soon and others thought it was undeserved. For me it's a tempest in a tea pot.

The OP did back off his original comments and deserves some credit.

[The Drummer]

JC- But Donovan's a victim of racism, so he gets more cred.

awl4knot- Horse feathers, don't bull shit a bull shitter. If you didn't detect any racism, or thought race wasn't a factor, why was there a need to show that Philly has more blacks than Chicago? And why did you offer the observation that it is a predominantly black city? The only possible link is to the OP's comment that McNabb is the victim of racism and gets the cred. So what you were throwing out was the implication that in a predominantly black city blacks get special treatment, no?

Hey Guys,

I may not understand this dialog among you gentlemen correctly, but my interpretation is this:

I'm seeing the OP alluding to an example of reverse discrimination in an implicit fashion. Take for instance Affirmative Action in accepting college students based on race as well as aptitude and performance; or police and fire departments accepting a quota of minorities although others scored better on physical and intellectual testing.

And don’t give me the baloney with concern to my being a racist because of the above logical statement.

So my understanding through reading this thread, though, again, possibly wrong, is that McNabb being black somehow attributed to him getting his number retired – success and accomplishments, or the lack thereof, not withstanding.

The question then is this: If McNabb were white would he still be afforded this honor?

[GP]

The posting of stats does not make me or anyone racist. It just goes to possibly show that a city with a larger black population would tend to lean toward retiring the jersey a person who is black. Same thing holds true for a city with a population that is more white. That doesn't make anyone racist. People get way too sensitive when it comes to dealing with anything even remotely linked to something to do with race.

[awl4knot]

Originally Posted by GP

The posting of stats does not make me or anyone racist. It just goes to possibly show that a city with a larger black population would tend to lean toward retiring the jersey a person who is black. Same thing holds true for a city with a population that is more white. That doesn't make anyone racist. People get way too sensitive when it comes to dealing with anything even remotely linked to something to do with race.

The problem is that you don't even know what racism is. You just defined it in your justification of your post. Blacks blindly voting for blacks and whites blindly voting for whites is the essence of racism because merit is trumped by skin color.

You took the time and effort to find statistics to bolster the OP's completely unsupported contention because you had heard that Philly was a predominantly black city and you believe blacks vote for blacks. You didn't question the OP's contention because it fit your stereotypes about Philadelphia - a predominantly black city. You never thought that the racial composition of the city was irrelevant.

And don't try to escape the harshness of this assessment by saying people (that means me) are too sensitive. I know that claims of racism are often crutches to excuse poor performance and other failings but No. 5 never made those claims. The guy was a warrior.

[GP]

I define racism as hatred of others BASED SOLELY on their race. I don't hate anyone.

Everything else you said i agree with!

[clearlylost]

stupid thread

[awl4knot]

Originally Posted by The Drummer

JC- But Donovan's a victim of racism, so he gets more cred.

awl4knot- Horse feathers, don't bull shit a bull shitter. If you didn't detect any racism, or thought race wasn't a factor, why was there a need to show that Philly has more blacks than Chicago? And why did you offer the observation that it is a predominantly black city? The only possible link is to the OP's comment that McNabb is the victim of racism and gets the cred. So what you were throwing out was the implication that in a predominantly black city blacks get special treatment, no?



So my understanding through reading this thread, though, again, possibly wrong, is that McNabb being black somehow attributed to him getting his number retired – success and accomplishments, or the lack thereof, not withstanding.

The question then is this: If McNabb were white would he still be afforded this honor?

Your understanding is wrong. The OP's position was that McNabb was honored not for his accomplishments but because he was a black who claimed he was the victim of discrimination. The problem with this assertion is that there is no evidence that this was true. And I mean none.

So, no the issue isn't if a white quarterback would be given the same honor for comparable exemplary service. The issue is the right of a private enterprise to use it's own judgment and criteria to honor exemplary servce.

[GP]

When it comes right down to it, they can do whatever they want.

[JohnnyCap]

I regret using the race word because my point was that #5 is no warrior. He might have been when he left SU, but the money and the spotlight wore him down from a hungry player to a wuss. I look at McNabb's career and I don't even see a footnote worth mentioning. He made a lot of money for his owner so the guy retired #5, I'd like it if it took more for the honor but it's the owner's call.

Nice stuff Drummer, thanks for the back up.

As for my mistake of mentioning race, I have no reason to assert Chicago or Philly is more racist than the other. If I had to pick one to be more racist, it would be Chicago.