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MsElena · 05-12-2010, 09:59 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100512/...pphu-container

This morning as I was reading this, the first thing that came to mind was racism. Was it right what the teacher supposedly said? No, because all that does is start twisting minds into the wrong way of thinking. But, lets be honest about the way history is sometimes written. It doesn't always tell the truth about some of the bad things Americans have done to other races.

It truly saddens me the way this country is heading.

Sens55 · 05-12-2010, 10:30 AM

There's an old saying that "Victors write the history books". It was traditionally talking about wars. But it could be extended to other areas as well. With the exception of the American Indian however, history has shown that the best thing that can happen to a country is to lose a war with the US. Doing so guarantees they'll end up better than they entered the war in terms of freedoms and a stable economy.

john_galt · 05-12-2010, 11:57 AM

When you say racism, you are talking about the inherent racism of the course and not the actions of the Governor? What happened to "we are all equal"? They teach Afro-centrist education in KCMO and look at the school system. Every culture has something to be proud of but history should be without color and at the same times all colors. It sounds like racist parents teaching their children that all latinos are lazy and dishonest, blacks are dumb and like fried chicken, and asians can't drive but are good with numbers. If you don't like these comments take it up with Carlos Mencia. Education should help young people advance not handicap them with hatreds and prejudices. Hurray for the advancement of common sense in Arizona.

We are at war with the third world mentality. I have always thought that one day there would be a one world government but the question was always under what system. I ask you Elena, how do you want to live? like they do in Saudi Arabia, or Mexico City, how about Mombossa Kenya?, maybe Beijeng? With the exception of only a few countries (which could be counted on one hand) I think the government of the US is the best. Of course, I don't really like the necessity of government but realize that it is supposed to guarantee our pursuit of happiness and not tell us how to live our lives.

dirty dog · 05-12-2010, 05:30 PM

"It truly saddens me the way this country is heading."

Are you talking about the desire to take every advantage of what this country has to offer yet refuse to become an American and assimilate into the population. Thats the problem with this country in a nut shell, every different culture wants to be here and reap the benefits, yet they dont want to be an "american", they want to be African, Mexican etc etc. I am a second generation Sicilian, yet when I identify myself I do so as an American. Thats because immigrants used to want to be americans and they assimilated and became americans. Where we are heading is civil war.

You say that the teacher should not have said what they said, but then you immediately justify the teachers reasoning for saying it, I guess all this objection to the law means that you can have divisive speach as long as its being spoken by a representative of an ethnic group. I am going to use a little bit of left wing liberal philosophy here. Since the election you have told us that Obama is not responsible for things because Bush left him a mess. Well the same is true about the current generation of white people in this country. No one living today owned a slave, stole land from the Indians, with the mexicans and took their land, or bought California from the mexico. Its time to quit living in the past and give white america the same break you want for Obama. This post was not directed at anyone person in particular.

PS. Here is a little secret for all minorities, most of white american is more concerned with living their lives, working for a better tomorrow and worrying about the mortgage than to sit around and think of ways to repress or discriminate against you.

Longermonger · 05-12-2010, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john_galt

blacks are dumb and like fried chicken

Who doesn't like fried chicken? That shit is good!

MsElena · 05-12-2010, 08:10 PM

JG and DD, here is my response in a nutshell.

Do I think most of American sits around thinking about the minorities? No.

When people ask me what my heritage is, I don't say I'm American because being American isn't a heritage and most people would know I'm US citizen. I'm proud of being an American, but I'm also proud of my heritage and where my ancestors came from. So, I have no problem saying I'm Mexican, French and Native American Indian.

I did not try to justify what the teacher (she's a Hispanic civil rights activist, my mistake in the original post) said. I don't believe that Republicans hate Hispanics, but they could if they wanted to because its their choice. I should've made my original post a bit more clear.

When I said the line about history not being truthful all the time, its because I believe that there should be ethnic study classes at colleges. People take those classes to learn the history, the culture and if it happens to teach how Americans treated them badly, then so be it. Everyone needs to learn the history of the US, the good and the bad. Myself, I don't think that the US has treated Mexico/Hispanics badly in the past. But, when you start censoring and telling people what they can/can't learn, I think its wrong. I personally don't know of any professors who would teach their students that one race is better than another because that's considered racism in my eyes.

JG.....do I think that the Gov is a racist? Yes, but that's my personal belief. Do I think that the classes being taught are racist? No, because there is no evidence to back up your statement. The only "evidence" is based upon Horne's belief and nothing more:

"State schools chief Tom Horne, who has pushed the bill for years, said he believes the Tucson school district's Mexican-American studies program teaches Latino students that they are oppressed by white people.

Horne, a Republican running for attorney general, said the program promotes "ethnic chauvinism" and racial resentment toward whites while segregating students by race. He's been trying to restrict it ever since he learned that Hispanic civil rights activist Dolores Huerta told students in 2006 that "Republicans hate Latinos."

dirty dog · 05-12-2010, 09:10 PM

Elena, I agree that everyone needs to know what their culture is, but if the method teaching it is incouraging racial division, tell me how that is a productive method. Also before you hang the Gov, you have to remember that the state representatives voted the measures into life, so its not only the Gov. One thing about the dicussion of racism that bothers me is the belief that it can only be told from the minority prespective and if there is any critical response from the majority it is only further evidence of racism. I know many white people who harbor no racial prejudice, however are beginning to develope negative feelings because they are sick and tire of hearing about it. Yet they are always lumped into the group, have to hear the muted accusasions of racism, the blatant accusasions and tire of the anger being directed toward them when they had nothing to do with any of it. The race card is being played on every hand these days and its tiresome. I married to a black woman, have mulato children and grandchildren and you know what, I am sick to death of it. I am sorry if this comes across as uncaring but I am just telling you how many white americans feel. I am beginning to feel that Obama's election was the worst thing for race relations in this country since the 60's.

MsElena · 05-12-2010, 10:23 PM

DD,

Although I'm a minority, like you I believe the race card is used way too often. Its usually used when a person cannot make a valid argument for their position.

When I said I believed that the Gov is a racist, again that's my belief and I will not push it down anyone's throat. Do I believe there are racists in AZ or in the US? Of course, because its been proven time and time again. I've gone to websites, read the blogs, read the comments left following an article and its filled with racist comments. It turns my stomach that in this day and age, people are filled with such hatred.

DD.....we do think alike (which is scary), but sometimes it doesn't always come across the right on here.

Again I say that the only proof that says anything that students are being taught to think that white Americans are the devil is one person's beliefs. And that is based upon one person giving a speech to the class. If people are that weak minded to believe something like that, then we have bigger problems.

john_galt · 05-13-2010, 01:18 AM

I would like to ask the moderator to remove the one post (you know which one it is) by Longermonger for taking my quote wwaaayyyyyy out of context to the point that it is a lie. LM can say what he wants but he should not lie about others.

Ms Elena I have to ask, if there really is no such things as an American (I know you didn't say that but others have) then is there such thing as a Mexican. Aren't Mexicans really Indian/Spanish/French/American/English? I thought it was very funny when the illegal protestors were holding signs calling themselves Aztecs. Those truely descended from the Aztecs are in the single digits. Kind of like an American trying to claim that their mother's mother's mother was a full blooded Indian Princess or their GGGGGfather was an officer in Washington's army.

Cheaper2buyit · 05-13-2010, 02:43 AM

What is being American & who should I assimilate into. Why should you not know where you are from. I pay my Taxes I should speak & act like I want. As far as the kids teach them all of the good & the bad but not just what the people in power want you to believe. & if they ask about santa tell'em he's not real along with the rest of the fairy tales.

roboy25 · 05-13-2010, 09:25 AM

I had a very good friend some time ago who immigrated here from Hungary in the 1950's...after the communists took over their country, he was captured trying to escape, put in prison and finally released. He met his future wife in prison as she was trying to escape as well..after they were both released, they plotted their escape, and were successful...
He was a PHD in Engineering and when he got to the US found a job in Chicago as a draftsman in an engineering firm, for the first 6 months they were here, he and his wife taught each other English..virtually every opportunity they had, they finally got their citizenship and he became a full blooded engineer...Long story short, he is most unhappy that so many people are now here illegally and are close to being naturalized....he and his wife did it right, they hold their heads up high and he breaks into tears to see what is happening to the country he immigrated to 55 years ago.. many people would truly understand a good perspective of our country from him.. The thing that bothers him the most is the disregard that the illegal immigrants have for the laws of this country...
I often wished he had been my own father!!!

Parlourgoer · 05-13-2010, 09:41 AM

Lets simplify this:

Get the @#%$ out if your not legal, willing to go through the process of law and follow our constitutional authority. Profiling is required and its not racism to profile because it happens to apply to any color or heritage. For those who believe that the AZ law, or others that follow, are unfair or unlawful or simply wrong then you are ignorant on the subject of constitutional law and the denotation of liberty.

JG and DD are correct that we are at war with a third world mentality and that the empahsis minority rights vs. legal citizen rights is killing our country.

JG and DD - I could not have said anything better and more on target than what you said. I truly value those comments and hope someday that the PC movement dies a quick death.

PG

Sens55 · 05-13-2010, 01:34 PM

I think there are a few things at work here. First, do the students have a right to have ethnic centric education? Possibly. But should the residents of that state pay for that program? That's another issue altogether. If they're in college, they can pay the tuition for the class. Or they can send their kids to a private school. After all, it's illegal for a teacher in a public school to teach any kind of Christian theology. They can teach Greek, Roman, even some Buddhist and Muslim tenents, but they can not teach anything resembling Christianity. If I want my kid to get that education, I either take them to Sunday School or send them to a Parochial school at MY expense. Should be the same here.

As far as immigration, I don't get it. I have lots of people get very excited about this, but the fact remains, if you are an "illegal" immigrant, not just an "immigrant", then you are ILLEGAL! Why should WE be at the mercy of people that aren't our citizens or even attempting to become citizens? Why shouldn't they work on fixing their own system first and not breaking ours. We cannot afford to fund the invasion any longer.

And again, I don't see this as racist or anti-immigrant. My brother lived in France for almost 20 years. He married a French girl that he met in college. He had 2 kids by her, which by his fathering them are both US citizens. They had a couple of businesses in France. But the small business climate in France is extremely difficult because the socialist laws are not designed to foster entrepreneurial adventures. They decided to move back to the states. It was a NIGHTMARE! It took them over 3 years, several thousand dollars (close to $10,000!) and he had to come over by himself for a year and a half before she could join him with a permanent visa and a work permit. Oh, and she's college-educated chiropractor that speaks 4 languages. So we're not talking about someone that is going to be a drain on the system! She can easily find work, and has, as both a chiropractor and a translator and a teacher! But the pains they had to go through to make it happen were ridiculous!

And to see someone sneak over the border that has no real business here, no real job prospects here and is breaking the law to be here cheapens the value of the efforts of my brother and sister-in-law to do it the right way.

dirty dog · 05-13-2010, 02:49 PM

"I pay my Taxes I should speak & act like I want"

Since illegals don't pay taxes this really does not apply does it.

"who should I assimilate into"

You assimilate into the society that you have joined when you come to this country. You don't take all that the country has to offer as a member of the society but demand to be seperate from it.

"Why should you not know where you are from."

There is no problem with teaching cultural history and the law does not stop that, what the law does stop is anyone teaching anything, about any culture that demonizes a specific culture causing divisivness and promotes racial disharmony.

Cheaper2buyit · 05-13-2010, 06:30 PM

So how do you stop them. The fence that they tunnel under. I mean its wrong for them to be here but bitching gets you no were. Plain & simple how do you them. Now about classes you have to teach the whole truth. A lot of people want to believe racism is over but its not its here but its not as profitable as it use to. And profiling by police is racism thats a fact.