Those that don't know history are doomed. . .

[ANONONE]

So I was listening to a local politician speak at a forum on education cuts and they actually suggested that public schools eliminate most history programs beyond citizen ship.

They actually said "With the internet why do we need history teachers? We can just look it up on Wikipedia if we need to know it."

What do we need to know from history?

. . .oh say things like knowing that as successful as Sitting Bull may have been victorious at Little Big Horn, he also had Standing Rock where he watched his people content to see tradition of hunting and gathering reduced to shooting sick cows in a coral and standing in line for TEFAP rations and blankets.

This is where socialism starts people. . .charismatic idiots are sadly not an endangered species. i looked around the hall and saw people nodding their heads vigorously in agreement to this kook's rants.

Sheesh!

[Randy4Candy]

Originally Posted by ANONONE

This is where socialism starts people. . .charismatic idiots are sadly not an endangered species. i looked around the hall and saw people nodding their heads vigorously in agreement to this kook's rants.

Sheesh!

Or, more likely, fascism:

Fascism is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy. Fascism was originally founded by Italian national syndicalists in World War I who combined left-wing and right-wing political views, but it gravitated to the political right in the early 1920s. Scholars generally consider fascism to be on the far right of the conventional left-right political spectrum.

Sounds like the Mission Statement of Faux Noise.

"Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it." - George Santayana, 1905 (epigraph used in 1959 by William L. Shirer in "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich")

[catnipdipper]

That is the most frightening comment I have ever heard or read.

Volunteer historical story telling on Wiki could end up as anything.

History regarding the justifications for the Mexican War has already be revised about 5 times and lately more truthful than every previously written.

I always felt illegal immigration is just taking the land back.

[Camille]

Cutting history out of any cirriculum is ridiculous for so many reasons, but it's not socialism. I'm sorry,but the term "socialism" is a term that is BADLY misused in this country as a means of fearmongering.

I do agree that cutting history classes is insane...not just for the culture and heritage aspects but also from a checks and balances point of view. It's naive to think that kids don't need to have a basic handle at least on the past so that they don't go trying to re-invent the wheel again.

C

[Sa_artman]

Originally Posted by ANONONE

So I was listening to a local politician speak at a forum on education cuts and they actually suggested that public schools eliminate most history programs beyond citizen ship.

They actually said "With the internet why do we need history teachers? We can just look it up on Wikipedia if we need to know it."

What do we need to know from history?

. . .oh say things like knowing that as successful as Sitting Bull may have been victorious at Little Big Horn, he also had Standing Rock where he watched his people content to see tradition of hunting and gathering reduced to shooting sick cows in a coral and standing in line for TEFAP rations and blankets.

This is where socialism starts people. . .charismatic idiots are sadly not an endangered species. i looked around the hall and saw people nodding their heads vigorously in agreement to this kook's rants.

Sheesh!

I think you were a victim of some of those history cuts. Socialism does not fit in the context of the what you are talking about. Government controlling production vs local politics. To play the devils advocate though, teachers are State employees. Smaller Government=less employees=less teachers. Next time someone yells 'Tax Cuts' keep in mind that money that pays those public school teachers has to come from somewhere.

*Not that I think it's a good idea. Quite possibly that politician needs to be beat about the head with a full set of Brittanica's.

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by Randy4Candy

Or, more likely, fascism:

Fascism is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy. Fascism was originally founded by Italian national syndicalists in World War I who combined left-wing and right-wing political views, but it gravitated to the political right in the early 1920s. Scholars generally consider fascism to be on the far right of the conventional left-right political spectrum.

There really isn't much difference between socialism and facism -- just who calls the shots. The Nazis where after all formally called the Nationalist Socialist Party. And it is not a left/right issue either:

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by Sa_artman

*Not that I think it's a good idea. Quite possibly that politician needs to be beat about the head with a full set of Brittanica's.

Word!

[Texas Contrarian]

Originally Posted by Sa_artman

To play the devils advocate though, teachers are State employees. Smaller Government=less employees=less teachers. Next time someone yells 'Tax Cuts' keep in mind that money that pays those public school teachers has to come from somewhere.

If your essential point is that we need to pay good teachers more, I agree with you. Unfortunately, too much money goes to useless bureaucrats, corrupt union hacks, and union-protected bad teachers. And perhaps even worse, to stuff like this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_690497.html

Almost $600 million for a high school campus. How ridiculous is that?

Just look at school districts like Newark, N.J. and Washington, D.C. They have a history of spending more per pupil than almost any other district in the nation and getting among the worst results. Teaching ought to be a respected and honored career. If we spent more wisely, we could pay good teachers significantly more and attract better candidates. In fact, we must do that if we don't want to fall futher behind.

Forty or fifty years ago, it was said that we had the best educational system in the world. Just look at us now. I don't know where we rank -- it depends on who you ask -- but it's not a pretty picture.

I strongly believe that we need to spend more wisely, not just more liberally.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

Almost $600 million for a high school campus. How ridiculous is that?

Especially if it's named after a Kennedy, CM?

[Texas Contrarian]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Especially if it's named after a Kennedy, CM?

Why does it make any difference who it's named for?

This just happens to be the best known, most expensive, and possibly most egregious example of uber-expensive high school campus complexes, although there are many other somewhat lesser examples around the country.

I can't believe anyone could possibly condone such taxpayer-funded extravagance.

[gnadfly]

Generally, with the different History and Learning Channels on cable and the internet, reducing the number of History teachers from High School and replacing them with these resources could be an option. Most of my HS History teachers where football coaches who used the time to interact with the cheerleaders. I doubt they knew who Sitting Bull was. I got tired of helping them find major landmarks on World maps.

Many colleges teach World and US history this way today.

[macksback]

You should have taken your shoe anf throwin' it at that buffoon.We spend too much money on crap...Teaching you children how to put a condom on a cucumber.We should be putting our money into reading,math,science,history. 12 years of reading,math,science and history and we will have smart kids.Everything elese could be taught in college.

[Randy4Candy]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Generally, with the different History and Learning Channels on cable and the internet, reducing the number of History teachers from High School and replacing them with these resources could be an option. Most of my HS History teachers where football coaches who used the time to interact with the cheerleaders. I doubt they knew who Sitting Bull was. I got tired of helping them find major landmarks on World maps.

Many colleges teach World and US history this way today.

My HS history teacher was indeed a football coach (line) but with a bit of a twist. He had an MA in history from Purdue and ran his class just like he ran our practice drills: 30 seconds after the tardy bell it was the start of a 45 minute lecture followed by questions/answers and the next reading assignment. Those who couldn't deal with it were killed (figuratively) on the spot and the carcasses displayed. Of course, that was 1966...LOL. He got wise, got out of education and became a millionaire selling insurance in a town of 25K. But, this is really a case of the exception proving the rule.

More apropo, my son went to the same HS I did. When I played football, we had 4 coaches total for a fb program in the largets class. When he played, the HS portion of the program had 16 coaches....and two reading specialists for the entire school system. Go figure...............

If you can't read, then it doesn't make a rat's ass whether you could getcher larnin' from a book or that there intranet.

BTW, pj, nice little visual aid. Unfortunately it's as subjective as the OP's conclusion. The prime rub on and the true cancer of a fascist state is it's incorporation of the "corporatist perspective." We potenitally have a say in what the government does as the system now sits. However, as things continue to shift towards a right-leaning, corporate-funded, wealth-based oligarchy any influence an ordinary citizen might have has always been shown to be eliminated. Imagine "What's good for General Motors is good for the country" on steriods. We can thank our a-Rab bretheren and their little 1973 oil embargo for allowing us to discover what a really well made, efficient car was and just how full of prunes that little homily truly was. And, as the history no one studies shows, when the screws are tightened down on the many by the few.....shit happens. Funny thing about REAL pain, it makes people actually search for alternatives and mean it. No, what's going on economically now hasn't gotten past relatively mild aggravation regardless of the panderings of either side's talking heads. In practice, there is always antagonism between "socialist-communism" and "socialist-fascism" due to the theoretical difference in the approach between totally eliminating wealth and totally worshiping it. There will always be a Spanish
Civil War when the chips are down between the two.

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by Randy4Candy

BTW, pj, nice little visual aid. Unfortunately it's as subjective as the OP's conclusion. The prime rub on and the true cancer of a fascist state is it's incorporation of the "corporatist perspective." We potenitally have a say in what the government does as the system now sits. However, as things continue to shift towards a right-leaning, corporate-funded, wealth-based oligarchy any influence an ordinary citizen might have has always been shown to be eliminated.

I fail to see how it makes any difference if the people that are controlling you life are "elected by the people" or appointed by a Board of Directors. You are fucked either way.

[ANONONE]

Originally Posted by Camille

Cutting history out of any cirriculum is ridiculous for so many reasons, but it's not socialism. I'm sorry,but the term "socialism" is a term that is BADLY misused in this country as a means of fearmongering.

I do agree that cutting history classes is insane...not just for the culture and heritage aspects but also from a checks and balances point of view. It's naive to think that kids don't need to have a basic handle at least on the past so that they don't go trying to re-invent the wheel again.

C

Camille,

I have to disagree. It is the first page in the socialist playbook:

Step one: get rid of the teachers of history.

Step two: gain control of media and perception and present party propaganda as elemental truth

Check the ascent of Mussolini and Hitler. National Socialism is the drain we are now circling. At the core, this ideology lulls the oppressed into submission via dependence on the state from cradle to grave, crushing independent thought and replacing it with group-think via double-speak.

Sadly it is insidious, because often the perpetrators are not even aware they are merely in the grips of a full on egomaniac attack which is perfectly fostered by the conditions that are ripe for the spread of socialism: Leaders shrug and say: "I saw a need and filled it."

They prey on the needs of society. Get the trains to run on time and make the lines for bread shorter and you are a hero. . .until it is too late.

If you have ever muttered the phrase: "there oughta be a law. . ." you are a carrier of the disease of socialism.

If you ar ein the hobby: Libertarian is the only way to fly!