Green Energy versus Permian Basin Blues and fossil fuels

[agrarian]

Name the largest oil field in the world. It’s the Permian Basin in western Texas and southeastern New Mexico.

In the debate over energy sources fossil fuel advocates have pointed out the environmental shortcomings of solar energy, often specifying the “rare earth” requirements of solar panels and the water pollution caused by mining these elements. Understand this: rare in this case doesn’t mean hard to find. It more generally means that an element is found in limited locations. It must be acknowledged that mining causes environmental degradation, so creating solar panels does, in fact, create some pollution.

But let’s also try to understand the pollution problems of oil and gas fracking development in the Permian Basin. This is what Permian Basin boosters already now. Their association has presented the following information to them. Fracking wells in the Permian Basin require prodigious amounts of water: A median of nearly 11.8 million gallons of water per well. That is an amount that can supply 73,000 households with water for a day. The fracking/oil industry lobbied to prevent the public from knowing all the chemicals used during the fracking process, so the consequences of fracking’s pollution impacts on earth’s underground and underwater resources and other resources are not fully understood.

In the Permian Basin, 252 to 336 gallons (6 to 8 barrels) of water are “produced” per gallon of oil that is yielded. What is “produced water”? This is water that is pumped from a well with oil and gas and contains salts, minerals, and other petroleum residues. It is dirty, polluted water. What do frackers do with the polluted water? They hide it, injecting it back inside the earth. It's what many frackers across the nation do with produced water.

There are about one million onshore oil and gas wells in the U.S. Nearly every one generates “produced” water. To supply the oil we need we “produce” more than 21 billion barrels of “produced water” each year. That’s almost 900 billion gallons of dirty water. This is only a portion of the pollution that is generated by our processes to gain oil and gas. The air quality pollution problems are equally worrisome. The pollution issues are further complicated by the fact that fossil fuel drilling or mining and refining/processing don’t tell the full story. We also create large amounts of pollution when we use oil and gas. That’s not true with solar.

What do we know about the tar sands mining industry? The pollution related to that industry is massive, truly monumental. That’s an entirely different conversation, but from an overall pollution standpoint it exceeds fracking on a per-barrel basis.

The basic question is: How sustainable is fracking and tar sands mining and fossil fuels? At some point we’re going to have to abandon them as the dominant energy source. That transition is underway, despite the remaining investment and profits from oil and gas. Solar and wind are attracting more and more market share. The reason is that solar is sustainable and it pollutes far less than fossil fuels. It’s a better alternative for the future than lots of dirty water and dirty air.

[dilbert firestorm]

one question...


where does the material to make solar come from???

[agrarian]

sorry...replaced this with the one that follows.

[agrarian]

Check out Solar Power World, May 2, 2013, to learn more about the materials needed to build solar panels. National Geographic's Nov 11, 2014 issue had an article titled "How green are those solar panels, really?" The Daily Mail (Jan 26, 2011) provided an excellent overview of China's role and the impacts of that role in supplying resources to renewable energy builders.

A key thing to consider with "rare earth" -- it's not that they're rare, it's that they are found in scattered locations in unconcentrated form. Alternatives to China must be developed. China is a lousy steward. We should move on from dealing with them on this matter. Invest elsewhere with better standards.

[winn dixie]

Butt what about all the birds the blades kill? Not to mention this disrupts migratory patterns. Lets not talk about the erosion of the soil from these wind sites. Or just how damn ugly these wind turbines are. People complain about bill boards? Go look at these unsightly eyesores! What about all the pollution it creates to find the raw materials to make these said eyesores?
I really could go on! I just dont give a F##k!!

[gnadfly]

The recent "cold blast" that came through a few days ago. Thank God we had fossil fuels. Maybe millions of people's lives would have been lost if we depend on green solutions we've been waiting for decades on.

What am I saying? It's "inevitable" that those people die.

[Redhot1960]

Originally Posted by agrarian

Name the largest oil field in the world. It’s the Permian Basin in western Texas and southeastern New Mexico.

In the debate over energy sources fossil fuel advocates have pointed out the environmental shortcomings of solar energy, often specifying the “rare earth” requirements of solar panels and the water pollution caused by mining these elements. Understand this: rare in this case doesn’t mean hard to find. It more generally means that an element is found in limited locations. It must be acknowledged that mining causes environmental degradation, so creating solar panels does, in fact, create some pollution.

But let’s also try to understand the pollution problems of oil and gas fracking development in the Permian Basin. This is what Permian Basin boosters already now. Their association has presented the following information to them. Fracking wells in the Permian Basin require prodigious amounts of water: A median of nearly 11.8 million gallons of water per well. That is an amount that can supply 73,000 households with water for a day. The fracking/oil industry lobbied to prevent the public from knowing all the chemicals used during the fracking process, so the consequences of fracking’s pollution impacts on earth’s underground and underwater resources and other resources are not fully understood.

In the Permian Basin, 252 to 336 gallons (6 to 8 barrels) of water are “produced” per gallon of oil that is yielded. What is “produced water”? This is water that is pumped from a well with oil and gas and contains salts, minerals, and other petroleum residues. It is dirty, polluted water. What do frackers do with the polluted water? They hide it, injecting it back inside the earth. It's what many frackers across the nation do with produced water.

There are about one million onshore oil and gas wells in the U.S. Nearly every one generates “produced” water. To supply the oil we need we “produce” more than 21 billion barrels of “produced water” each year. That’s almost 900 billion gallons of dirty water. This is only a portion of the pollution that is generated by our processes to gain oil and gas. The air quality pollution problems are equally worrisome. The pollution issues are further complicated by the fact that fossil fuel drilling or mining and refining/processing don’t tell the full story. We also create large amounts of pollution when we use oil and gas. That’s not true with solar.

What do we know about the tar sands mining industry? The pollution related to that industry is massive, truly monumental. That’s an entirely different conversation, but from an overall pollution standpoint it exceeds fracking on a per-barrel basis.

The basic question is: How sustainable is fracking and tar sands mining and fossil fuels? At some point we’re going to have to abandon them as the dominant energy source. That transition is underway, despite the remaining investment and profits from oil and gas. Solar and wind are attracting more and more market share. The reason is that solar is sustainable and it pollutes far less than fossil fuels. It’s a better alternative for the future than lots of dirty water and dirty air.

"This is what Permian Basin boosters already now"

and you "know" this for a fact?

?

[bb1961]

The source of the solar energy...hydrogen fusion will be the greatest source of infinite clean energy when they get the process down.https://phys.org/news/2018-11-faster...on-energy.html
Hydrogen supply is essentially limitless...it's the most abundant element in the universe.
https://www.google.com/search?q=what...hrome&ie=UTF-8

[agrarian]

"This is what Permian Basin boosters already now"

and you "know" this for a fact?


Yes, the source of the water use information comes from the association that represents Permian Basin oil developers. Water pollution and massive water use is a proven and widely understood characteristic of fracking. The industry appreciates this problem, and they're trying to figure out how to deal with it. Ignoring it is the strategy many in the industry prefer. Halliburton is one company looking into technologies, but it is very expensive to recycle or clean "produced" fracking water.

Injecting wells with "produced" water poses all kinds of problems.

Check on the water needs of frackers. It's huge. Check on the legislative history of the fracking industry. They did get an exemption to not reveal their chemicals and other inputs into the fracking process. It's one big secret.

Check out how the frackers reversed flaring laws in North Dakota. Huge air pollution there, as well as major water problems.

Wait'll we start permitting and building pipelines for new sources of freshwater to feed frackers and fossil fuel developers.

[I B Hankering]

[agrarian]

Very subtle irony. Very subtle. I'm no fan of wind as a solution but for all its weaknesses wind remains a cleaner alternative than fossil fuels. We should minimize our use of fossil fuels, emphasizing whenever possible solar or wind or??. Using oil as a lubricant or a backup to cleaner sources isn't inappropriate at all.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

What am I saying? It's "inevitable" that those people die.

We all die in the end, just so you know. Even locust or should I say especially locust.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by agrarian

Very subtle irony. Very subtle. I'm no fan of wind as a solution but for all its weaknesses wind remains a cleaner alternative than fossil fuels. We should minimize our use of fossil fuels, emphasizing whenever possible solar or wind or??. Using oil as a lubricant or a backup to cleaner sources isn't inappropriate at all.

These folks are part of the "either you're fer us or against us" crowd.

One of my good friends, who loves Trump....loves her Tesla.

[winn dixie]

Originally Posted by agrarian

Very subtle irony. Very subtle. I'm no fan of wind as a solution but for all its weaknesses wind remains a cleaner alternative than fossil fuels. We should minimize our use of fossil fuels, emphasizing whenever possible solar or wind or??. Using oil as a lubricant or a backup to cleaner sources isn't inappropriate at all.

Just think of all those "small ironic" oil leaks from those wind turbines? One small drop of oil will contaminate water tables bigly. Not to mention how many blind salamanders and albino crickets will die as a result of these small ironic wind turbine leaks! gtfoh!!!!!!!!

[dilbert firestorm]

wind turbines take up too much land and kills birds.