Mon Dieu! Hold still while I rob you!!!!

[Guest032516]

Ah, the French:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...eedy-rich.html

Does anybody know how to say "Sooner or later, you run out of other people's money" in French?

The English newspapers love reporting about the French.

[satexasguy]

Just like the wealthy Californians that are moving out of state to avoid the taxes California is forcing on them.

[CuteOldGuy]

This is funny. What did they expect to happen? That's why I think it is ridiculous for the Republicans here to oppose taxing the rich. The rich aren't going to pay it. They will find a way around it, or move.

Ask California or New York how that taxing the rich thing is working for them.

[gnadfly]

Like Google admits having $10 Billion in cash stashed away in offshore accounts to avoid paying European taxes: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...0-billion.html.

[Texas Contrarian]

"The art of taxation involves plucking the goose in such a fashion that you may harvest the maximum possible quantity of feathers with the least possible amount of hissing."
-- Jean Baptiste Colbert

That famous quote from the 17th century immediately came to mind when I saw the thread title. Colbert was a French Minister of Finance during the reign of King Louis XIV.

That's a message that should not have been forgotten, yet the French government seems intent on proving beyond any reasonable doubt that it's even more clueless and incompetent than the U.S. government. (And that's quite an accomplishment!)

Some progressives might say, "Well, so a bunch of high income executive and entrepreneurial types are hissing and pissing about high tax rates. Too fucking bad!"

To those who might harbor such sentiments, I would suggest that you have a little rethink. Just look at what's happened in the U.K. over the last couple of years, and they only pushed the top-bracket rate to 50% (from 40%). But the following year, the number of tax returns showing income greater than one million pounds sterling dropped by more than 50%. Oops! The Brits decided to back the rate down to 45% and try that one on for size. The anticipated additional revenue had simply pulled a disappearing act. A representative from the Chancellor of the Exchequer (more or less the equivalent of our Department of the Treasury) said that investors and business owners were apparently "maneuvering" in various ways designed to reduce their tax burdens. (What a surprise!) Imagine how much "maneuvering" they would have done if faced with a 75% rate.

I can see it now: A bunch of effete French government officials are sitting around a conference table a couple of years from now, completely flummoxed as to why tax revenues are not increasing and the economy is not recovering. Of course, it never occurs to them to cut, streamline, or reform anything. The French state now spends about 56% of GDP.

Sometimes it seems that nobody ever learns anything from history or from the experiences of others.

[essence]

- yes, the Brits love bashing the French whenever we can

- the stories of the French living in fiscal cuckoo land abound.

- there was a story in the Telegraph a week ago about how wealthy people were fleeing UK because of the 50% tax. It was nonsense, unsupported by facts. Nobody was leaving. What was happening was that wealthy people were paying themselves less during the 50% period, and then compensating again when it went back down to 40%. Perfectly sensible tax mgmt. Wealthy people have a lot of flexibility how they pay themselves.

- there are recent stories about how multi national companies (google, amazon, starbucks) pay very little company/corporation tax in the UK. Again, this is no surprise, a corporation will arange their affairs to pay tax in the best way. Any profits in UK will be reduced by paying 'allocations' to the head office, where allocations cover stuff like value of the brand, HQ costs, etc etc.

- similarly, most of my clients are in the US, so if I was going to recruit a contractor, I would recruit where I get best value for money, i.e. in the US.

- we live in a global economy. I don't think the French get it.

- Belgium ????!!!!????

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by essence

- Belgium ????!!!!????

Yeah, it's essentially a French suburb. And the tax rate is "only" about 50%.

So they get to live in "France Lite", but without the 75% tax rate.

[Whirlaway]

The rich will flee....It's why Obama will ultimately be taxing the middle class to pay for all his spending.

The Obama wars on the middle class are just getting started - as I have chronicled.

[Texas Contrarian]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

...Obama will ultimately be taxing the middle class to pay for all his spending...

Since that's where the real money is, congress will soon enough be forced to do just that.

A lot of people labor under the delusion that Europe's social democracies largely depend on the affluent to finance their lavish welfare states. But the converse is the case. Our tax system is far more progressive than that of the wealthier European nations, although at substantially lower rates across the distribution.

For instance, typical French, British, and German workers earning the equivalent of about $50-75K find themselves paying marginal income tax rates similar to Americans pulling down upwards of $250K. In addition, they pay a VAT (sales tax typically levied at about a 20% rate), plus high payroll taxes, plus gasoline taxes in the $4/gallon range (not the price, the tax! The price is often close to double that).

This graph is an eye-opener for many people:





Narrative @ http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ig-government/

[Guest032516]

Looks like Depardieu printed a reply in a newspaper:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...oic-exile.html

I don't know how, but Depardieu says he paid 85% in taxes last year and I don't think the French have raised taxes to 75% yet.

Perhaps Depardieu was adding income taxes to property taxes and VAT taxes he paid?

Hard to say.

But if taxes go up to 75%, then I imagine his tax rate will easily break 90%.