What are the limits . . .

[Guest021010-2]

I think a judge once said he could not define porn, but that he knew it when he saw it. The judge has limits which he will apply as law.

In the community, are there limits to the trash which can be heaped on a member with impunity?

Is it name calling?

Innuendo?

Threats either veiled or overt?

What are the limits beyond which MOD's will intervene?

Just wondering if there has been any attempt to define some boundaries.

Best regards,

rr

[Kelly TNT]

This may help.

http://www.eccie.net/announcement.php?f=5

~Kelly TNT

[DEAR_JOHN]

My question is why would anybody need an explanation. Why not just find a comfort zone and be a solid member without playing on the edge.

One thing us ex-aspders need to realize, especially those of us who just registered here in December 2009 or January 2010, is that we are the newbies. No matter that I was an aspder since January 2000, I am a newbie, no matter who I was back on aspd.

You're going off on your review was not a wise choice and all it did was bring criticism to your posting style. You may want to take a step back and refocus what you want your posting style (posting persona) to be.

[xtrem]

Rule of thumb.. Which works anywhere in the world for all cultures.. Treat people how you want to be treated.

[notanewbie]

and at the end of the day the hobby is for fun.

and if you think about it, it's hard to take it too seriously.

[Guest021010-2]

Originally Posted by xtrem

Rule of thumb.. Which works anywhere in the world for all cultures.. Treat people how you want to be treated.

My general rule(s). . .

1. HAVE FUN AMID GENERAL FOOLISHNESS: I poke fun at myself and with friends at myself, my foibles. I do not suffer fools, bullies and other excrement easily. . .(does NOT pertain to present company).
   
2. BE RESPONSIBLE: I count on people to say what they mean and mean what they say, and take responsibility.
   
3. BE COOPERATIVE, SUPPORTIVE.
   
4. IN THE FACE OF OPPOSITION, SEEK THE WIN-WIN. Only a fool refuses to seek the win-win. With a fool (like Hitler), DRAW THE LINE.
   
5. DEFINE THE BOUNDARY: In the face of conflict, identify the issue and its boundary, draw the line, toe the line, hold the line. Do NOT seek 'peace in our time at any cost' for the sake of expediency. Do not cow to the demands for political correctness. Peace at that cost is too expensive and an illusion at best. It is true at the UN, in Austin, in City Hall, and this community, too. The dynamics of communities transcend borders, real or virtual.
   
6. KEEP AN OPEN MIND. Sometimes a strategic retreat (lose the battle) is in order to win the war.
   
7. LEARN FROM MISTAKES, mine and others. I do not insist on making all my own mistakes (i.e. to repeat others' mistakes knowingly).
   
8. ACCEPT 'STUFF' AS PART OF LIFE IN THE BIG CITY.
   
9. HELP THE CLANTON GANG TO FIND THEIR WAY OUT OF DODGE CITY.
   
10. DRAW THE WEAPON IF NECESSARY TO MAINTAIN ORDER.

Make of it what you wish.

I began this open thread with the staff seeking some discussion; and have come away with something else altogether. I defined a general not a rhetorical topic (LIMITS) seeking some perspective from a general discussion, not seeking to tie it in to a previously CLOSED THREAD. I had myself requested the CHINESE FLOWER thread be closed; and I had hoped it would die with my adversaries having the last word.

But I guess not and I get your (pl.) message. And I am surprised by this response from staff. I come away feeling like some have taken cheap shots in these thread. Am I injured? Not in the least, but your stock with me has gone down, not that you care, not that it matters I suppose. So I hope you feel better for it like the others, thinking you have the last word.

My style is my style. It is my less traveled road.

My less traveled road is not for everyone. I am not here to please a lot of people, mainly the providers I meet and my clients who provide my income.

My less traveled road is not for everyone. I owe no one an explanation, nor a defense. However I am willing to engage in a civil discussion in private among equals of whatever tenure in eccie.

IN THE FACE OF OPPOSITION, SEEK THE WIN-WIN.

"Limits" is a topic I shall continue with the MOD's in private if they wish, or not. Their choice. It is not about me but about the community.

"Limits" is a timely topic since a community without limits is destined to become an abusive and chaotic community.

The Mission Statement says we will not find a lot of rules. I agree.
But there comes a time to define what kind of community you (MODs and Owners) wish to maintain or grow. With growth -- especially the rapid growth with the demise of ASPD and other newbies-- will come conflict.

Identify the base values.
Brain storm the situations -- role play the situations -- prepare for the storm or crisis of conflict which comes to every growing community.
Prepare some 'police' policies, remedies and penalties,
Publish it as a Vision Statement to describe in S.M.A.R.T.* terms for all to read and understand.
(*Specific.Measureable.Attaina ble.Realistic.Tangible terms)
If you do not do it of purpose, some one will do it for you through chaos and conflict.
It is your choice.

FINALLY, (and I know you are GLAD) EXPECTATIONS:
I give everyone the same respect I desire and expect. Regards being a newbie, I did not just jump off the turnip truck. For ANY 'old timer' to claim some privilege based on his tenure in this site is absurd to me. The only 'privileged' characters are the MOD's and Owners, and that by vested authority, NOT BY TENURE. For anyone to think they will squelch me by invective or otherwise makes me smirk.

When you disagree with me, let's talk about it -- i.e. the issue -- in private.
Let's NOT hijack a thread to hash out a disagreement. Let us not prresume to know what the other person feels or needs. No one can REALLY know what another person is feeling, only what he himself might have felt in a similar situation. No one can be the expert for another person's needs.
Anyone who really thinks he knows what another person feels or needs is in error or deluded. There may be room for discussion if he is willing to listen to that person as a sounding board and help him clarify.
If he insists he knows, he is arrogant or manipulative and not to be trusted.

Since YOU injected that closed review [CHINESE FLOWER] into this thread, I will not rehash it, but I will say I erred in my heated responses. I let htownhammer and Horsefly get my goat. My bad. The only way to keep the Devil from getting your goat is to not let the Devil know where you have your goat stabled. I erred and you saw the result. My bad.

I ought to have told those obtuse persons that I did not feel the need to "reaffirm" what I had stated in the review and confirmed to in a previous post.

I might have clarified the description as "Karen-ish" or similar.
But to be told I ought to confirm or recant?!!! Hardly.

Only a MOD has authority to demand that from someone. When last I looked, htownhammer was no MOD, and Horsefly had two posts and no reviews.

Why do they get a pass? I do not wish a reply from anyone.
It is not a topic I wish to explore. It is one topic which is closed in my mind, an exception to Rule 6. Some things do NOT need to be reconsidered.

Peace.

rr

[DEAR_JOHN]

randyrogue, let me guess, are you a frustrated and out of work comedian? I see a lot of humor in your posting style, because I honestly can't take it very seriously.

[Guest062610]

RR,

I don't know why you started this thread. We've been communicating via pm since last night, when I told you that the best course of action for you to let it go and move on. In the grand scheme of things your internet review writing credibility was damaged more by your responses than by questions being asked of you.

Chillax bro and move on to something more fun...like getting laid.

LAP

[Guest021010-2]

I am asked why I started this thread?
In my heart I started this thread for the sake of the ECCIE community, to stir the powers that be to give thought and decide how conflict will be managed and resolved in the community.

I have seen numerous other organizations (cities, communities, families, businesses, non-profits) deal with conflict. This community has so much diversity (not a bad thing), and brings such a wide range of values into play with every ‘transaction’ (conversation, PM, thread, interaction of any kind).

Did you ever read the book “I’m OK, You’re OK”. The author defined a model of human interaction called ‘transactional analysis.’ There is a follow-up workbook called ‘Games People Play’ which deals with the healthy, conflicted, even diseased aspects of human interaction; especially with dealing with conflict. Not every argument is unhealthy. Often it can clear the air when the two feel they have been heard, and find common ground on which to manage their conflict, and define their own ‘win-win’ agreement to resolve the conflict.

I started this thread not to continue a previous review, but to inquire and examine ECCIE’s policy on conflict management and resolution, our community’s police policy if you will. You are fooling yourself if you think it is not necessary. I posted the thread in the QUESTIONS TO THE STAFF forum because this ought to be a place with a serious tone. If it was to be funny or press my point I would have gone to the Men’s Lounge or Co-Ed forms.

Conflict has many levels from playground trash talk of no consequence (fun) to demonizing (name calling, casting aspersions), to aggression, even to lethality or murder (or war among nations or gangs). It moves from one level of play at some point to a serious level, a heated level and then is either managed and resolved (win-win), or is likely to escalate more (win-lose).

The police should listen to both sides and decide on the basis of some body of law (either common case law, or codified) for the sake of fairness. Otherwise ‘policing’ will be done arbitrarily, often based on the capricious mood of the police who attend to the event. Fairness is too often sacrificed in favor of a bias, prejudice, other ignorance, arrogance or cronyism.

In a community of A-Types, conflict will emerge, and more frequently as the community grows. The ECCIE police should monitor.

Is that not what MODs are to do?
By what standard will they exercise their authority?
What are the limits for members, and for the police?

History shows that police abuse will occur. How will the community deal with that?

It seems you will wait to deal with the topic conflict until it happens, in the heat of the moment when perspective is blurred by emotion. Why not consider past instances from life experience, from other sites, etc. and consider in advance how peace and 'fun' might be promoted and maintained through judicious exercise of police authority.

Why did I start this thread? Because the first question remains unanswered. It is a discomfiting question. But it is not about me. It is about the community.

You have told me to chill out. I am asking you to awaken from your slumber.
Please do not repeat the mistakes of other communities who did not define their common values and a vision for their future.

Define a vision of what you want the community to be, its values, how it should function, and the boundaries within which members should 'play'.

Define some statement not of rules, but of policies based on values, and empower a group to judge on the basis of the policy and to enforce it. Is that not what the MOD's are to do? Without some common policy, some standard, each MOD will be left to define his own policy. CRONYISM. INEQUITY. BIAS. PREJUDICE. ARROGANCE.

You do not want to talk about it now.
OK. I shall not press it further unless or until a future case warrants IMHO.
It is not about being right. It is about being effective, and healthy, and maintaining a culture where fun can thrive.

With malice towards none,

Peace.

rr, a rogueish prophet says the day will come when you wish you had, and so will we.

[guest040711-1]

A look in the Time Capsule of 32flavors thread about being a good member would be worthwile reading.

What you will discover is people in real life are often different than their behind the keyboard persona.

[Guest021010-2]

I am the same in online relationships.
I find on occasion some blowhard will say on line what he does not have the stones to say to me in person.
I do not seek the conflict, but neither do I cower from it. I will clarify if needs be, even correct myself openly on occasion. But the prospect of conflict does not deter me.

I have been known (more than once) to intervene to restore peace as a civilian on the street by force against ruffians. I have defended my home by threat of force against ruffians more than once. I do not seek it, but the prospect of conflict does not deter me. I seek to manage it, resolve it if possible peaceably, but to protect significant interests by whatever means necessary.

The exercise of force (at any level) needs to be carefully considered, and carried out in a measured way; because once done life is never the same again.

Thanks for your suggestion.
I will give it a read.

But do not expect me to be pacified by what I infer as veiled threats.
Why all the veiled heat? I have done nothing wrong. I am no threat.
I suggest you write out your intent in your own words, deal with the issue.

It is not about me. It is about the community.
How you deal with me will establish your own precedent, or a precedent for others, or draw from precedent.

It is my desire to identify THOSE case-sources or values (what are they?) that sparks this thread and persistent question. I found several ASPD Mod's to be capricious, self-serving. I hope it is not so on ECCIE.

If ECCIE is better off without a specific member, ban him. Just be certain you are honest with yourselves and consistent with the community as to why you are doing it.

Rank hath its privilege . . . and its responsibility.


With malice toward none.

Peace.

rr

[DRSlut]

randyrogue,

You are either SERIOUSLY bored, CRAVING attention, CONFUSED... or all three. Get over it, move on or quit posting. Maybe make up a new handle and come back as a "silent" guest.

Notice, the board is www.eccie.net, and not www.randyrogue.net.

[htownhammer]

Interesting?

Originally Posted by randyrogue

On the street that is the kind of thing that will get you bitch slapped...
How stupid, arrogant and narrow minded...
I am outing you for your ignorance...
THAT is why I am PO'd...
I really get PO'd at Forelius and Irydomyrmex and their ilk...
THAT IS BS trash talk. STF up!...
by the way hth...Get someone to explain it to you. and STF up!
htownhammer and Horsefly...those obtuse persons rr

Originally Posted by lickalotapus

RR, your internet review writing credibility was damaged more by your responses than by questions being asked of you.LAP

Originally Posted by DEAR_JOHN

You're going off on your review was not a wise choice and all it did was bring criticism to your posting style. You may want to take a step back and refocus what you want your posting style to be.

Originally Posted by DRSlut

randyrogue,
You are either SERIOUSLY bored, CRAVING attention... or both. Get over it and move on

Originally Posted by DEAR_JOHN

randyrogue, let me guess, are you a frustrated and out of work comedian? I see a lot of humor in your posting style, because I honestly can't take it very seriously.

Originally Posted by lickalotapus

RR,Chillax bro and move on to something more fun...like getting laid.LAP

Originally Posted by notanewbie

at the end of the day the hobby is for fun.... it's hard to take it too seriously.

[Guest021010-2]

Originally Posted by DRSlut

randyrogue,

You are either SERIOUSLY bored, CRAVING attention, CONFUSED... or all three. Get over it, move on or quit posting. Maybe make up a new handle and come back as a "silent" guest.

Notice, the board is www.eccie.net, and not www.randyrogue.net.

I AM OVER IT, WHATEVER IT IS IN HIS/Your MIND.

This thread was posted for the staff. With 10 posts and no reviews, and nothing positive to offer on the topic (LIMITS), I do not trust this DR-whoever, even if he is a DR (LOL)! He would silence my on a thread I initiated. HAH! I think I have heard something like this before, and it was hardly civil.


DR-what, Go back to your goat herd. You are missing a cabrito. I am BBQ-ing it for dinner. This topic is over your head.

Meanwhile, yes I think the topic is worthy of thought and discussion since it will influence the tone of this community. And the question remains unanswered and evaded. It is NOT about rr. It is about how ECCIE defines civility.

MODs, it is apparent no one will clarify the issue. The issue is not about me.
It is about the community's standards which remain undefined.
HOW DOES ECCIE DEFINE CIVILITY?
What are the limits beyond which wrists will be slapped and points assessed or other?
It is too uncomfortable for you to consider openly, much less codify.
But in time you will decide by trial and error OJT, and we will learn by observation. And THAT list of precedents will become a body of common law that defines the limits.

This thread was posted for the staff. They are done with it. There will be no meaningful response to the topic in QUESTION. So I suggest the thread be closed.

Looking for the next good time.

rr

[DRSlut]

Make jokes as you will, but i'm not missing a thing and no problem here with your opinion, as useless as it may be; but you do have some serious issues... as demonstrated by everyone else’s remarks as well.

I am jealous of 1 thing… the amount of “FREE” time that you have on your hands.