Can someone please explain the pros and cons of the "Fair Tax" movement?

[Sweet Heather]

I've heard many things about it, but I know the political whizes here could explain it in detail .Thanks.

[Jackie S]

There are quite a few floating around, but in my opinion, the only true fair tax is a National Sales Tax. That way, EVERYBODY pays. If you purchase something, you pay the taxes then. The more expensive stuff you buy, the more you pay.

Modifying the existing code is not going to work, because you still have all of the crap that makes the tax code such a monster.

Many say that it will be unproportionally hard on the poor. I don't see how. If you make less, you buy less, and pay less. The average guy buying a 22,000 car will pay a lot less tax than the guy who springs for the $70,000 Escalade.

This will take care of all of the underground economy as well. Money is useless unless you spend it. You sure can't eat it. Don't tax us when we make, tax us when we spend it.

Even the drug dealer, the gangster, the loan shark, everybody will will pay an equal amount.

I was told once by a IRS agent that the government really doesn't care how you make your money, but they do want their cut. IMHO, the National Sales Tax is the only fair tax.

[boardman]

It's a consumption tax. It would replace all other forms of taxes, no more income tax, no more withholdings. You would bring home the entire amount of your paycheck.

Businesses would no longer have to pay any form of tax because taxes would be collected at the final retail purchase by the consumer of the product or service. Overnight, businesses that have moved off shore would have incentive to bring their jobs back to the US because the costs of manufacturing here would be lowered enough to justify such moves. Unemployment would reach record lows.

The tax rate would be in the 21% - 33% range on everything you consume. Food, clothing, housing, insurance, medicine, recreation but you will be in control of how you spend your money and because of lower costs of doing business and increased competition on quality American made products you might possibly see a reduction in the costs of those products and a reduction in demand of cheap foreign products.

Some taxes that are currently much higher would be reduced such as taxes on gasoline, liquor and cigarettes.

Enforcement of the tax law would be much easier therefor government bureaucracy and the IRS could be eliminated or at least drastically reduced.

In some circles it is called a "fair tax" because it imposes more tax on those that are able spend more.
There are even provisions that would allow for a prebate of taxes to those that fall below a certain income level to offset the cost of necessities like food and housing.

http://geekpolitics.com/10-pros-and-...-the-fair-tax/ has a listing of pros and cons. You can also Google "fair tax pros and cons" There are any number of sights that list them some have spin, some don't

[Don T. Lukbak]

Originally Posted by boardman

It's a consumption tax. It would replace all other forms of taxes, no more income tax, no more withholdings.

With all due respect, Boardman, FAT CHANCE. You must have forgotten who will be continuing to write tax law. The only way to assure that tax on income won't be added to the Fair Tax would be to a Constitutional amendment to repeal the 16th. And that's just the income tax. No way will the varmints stop levying Social Security Tax, Medicare Tax, Unemployment Tax ... on income, and God knows how many additional ad valorem taxes they will impose on gasoline, tobacco, and on and on. You know the thieving varmints will tax the air we breath just as soon as they figure a way to measure it.

The "Fair Tax" would be a good idea only IF Congress were trustworthy, and that ain't gonna happen. The federal system of taxation has much more to do with using other people's money to buy votes than it does with raising revenue for legitimate, Constitutional government spending. Excessive spending by government is the problem, not the taxing mechanism that raises 58 cents of each buck spent (the other 42 cents is borrowed).

[PSD]

Can you say "threAD"?

..and you bitched about Tiffany? HA!

Originally Posted by Sweet Heather

I've heard many things about it, but I know the political whizes here could explain it in detail .Thanks.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by boardman

Businesses would no longer have to pay any form of tax because taxes would be collected at the final retail purchase by the consumer of the product or service.

Enforcement of the tax law would be much easier therefor government bureaucracy and the IRS could be eliminated or at least drastically reduced.

In some circles it is called a "fair tax" because it imposes more tax on those that are able spend more.

There are even provisions that would allow for a prebate of taxes to those that fall below a certain income level to offset the cost of necessities like food and housing.

So.....

#1: You say there will be a "business exemption" on business purchases.
#2: Who is going to verify that all consumer sales are "rung up"?
#3: And it is not "fair" .... lower income folks get a "prebate"!

And what makes anyone think that taxes on liquor, smokes, and twinkies ... will be "REDUCED"?

Heather, can you visualize a four-year-old with his lips all puckered up and the lower lips extended out, with watering eyes, and running nose .... saying .....

".... that's not FAIR"..............?

Then say ..... "labor unions" repeatedly while thinking of the child.

[boardman]

Originally Posted by Don T. Lukbak

With all due respect, Boardman, FAT CHANCE. You must have forgotten who will be continuing to write tax law. The only way to assure that tax on income won't be added to the Fair Tax would be to a Constitutional amendment to repeal the 16th. And that's just the income tax. No way will the varmints stop levying Social Security Tax, Medicare Tax, Unemployment Tax ... on income, and God knows how many additional ad valorem taxes they will impose on gasoline, tobacco, and on and on. You know the thieving varmints will tax the air we breath just as soon as they figure a way to measure it.

The "Fair Tax" would be a good idea only IF Congress were trustworthy, and that ain't gonna happen. The federal system of taxation has much more to do with using other people's money to buy votes than it does with raising revenue for legitimate, Constitutional government spending. Excessive spending by government is the problem, not the taxing mechanism that raises 58 cents of each buck spent (the other 42 cents is borrowed).

Originally Posted by LexusLover

So.....

#1: You say there will be a "business exemption" on business purchases.
#2: Who is going to verify that all consumer sales are "rung up"?
#3: And it is not "fair" .... lower income folks get a "prebate"!

And what makes anyone think that taxes on liquor, smokes, and twinkies ... will be "REDUCED"?

Heather, can you visualize a four-year-old with his lips all puckered up and the lower lips extended out, with watering eyes, and running nose .... saying .....

".... that's not FAIR"..............?

Then say ..... "labor unions" repeatedly while thinking of the child.

You obviously haven't done any meaningful research on it or you would already know the answers to your questions.
I'm not the one writing the law just trying to give a reasonable answer to a reasonable question.
Why the fuck are you so spring loaded?

[boardman]

Originally Posted by Don T. Lukbak

With all due respect, Boardman, FAT CHANCE. You must have forgotten who will be continuing to write tax law. The only way to assure that tax on income won't be added to the Fair Tax would be to a Constitutional amendment to repeal the 16th. And that's just the income tax. No way will the varmints stop levying Social Security Tax, Medicare Tax, Unemployment Tax ... on income, and God knows how many additional ad valorem taxes they will impose on gasoline, tobacco, and on and on. You know the thieving varmints will tax the air we breath just as soon as they figure a way to measure it.

The "Fair Tax" would be a good idea only IF Congress were trustworthy, and that ain't gonna happen. The federal system of taxation has much more to do with using other people's money to buy votes than it does with raising revenue for legitimate, Constitutional government spending. Excessive spending by government is the problem, not the taxing mechanism that raises 58 cents of each buck spent (the other 42 cents is borrowed).

Absolutely correct!

Originally Posted by LexusLover

So.....

#1: You say there will be a "business exemption" on business purchases.
#2: Who is going to verify that all consumer sales are "rung up"?
#3: And it is not "fair" .... lower income folks get a "prebate"!

And what makes anyone think that taxes on liquor, smokes, and twinkies ... will be "REDUCED"?

Heather, can you visualize a four-year-old with his lips all puckered up and the lower lips extended out, with watering eyes, and running nose .... saying .....

".... that's not FAIR"..............?

Then say ..... "labor unions" repeatedly while thinking of the child.

You obviously haven't done any meaningful research on it or you would already know the answers to your questions.
I'm not the one writing the law just trying to give a reasonable answer to a reasonable question.
So.....Just, why the fuck are you so spring loaded?

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by boardman

So.....Just, why the fuck are you so spring loaded?

Having spent some part of my life in a rural, farming environment the quality of being "spring loaded" is an advantage when navigating through "cow patties" and "bull shit" .... saves time cleaning up the mess later on.

For instance, it does not take ANY RESEARCH to figure out who is going to collect taxes on services for "cash only" ... or is "the law" going to exempt "services" from taxes also? Who does it now?

[seanes]

A "Fair Tax" is a perpetual motion machine.

To adapt a well-worn phrase:
"You can 'be fair' to some of the people all of the time
and you can 'be fair' to all of the people some of the time,
but you can't 'be fair' to all of the people all of the time."

[Don T. Lukbak]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Who does it now?

Uh.....the states. They seem to be pretty thorough in taxing goods and taxable services. In Texas I believe, but could be wrong, that it's a tax administration division of the Office of the Comptroller of Public Accounts. Unless I disremember. Which is always possible.

Sproooiiiiiiiiiinnnggggg!

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Don T. Lukbak

Uh.....the states. They seem to be pretty thorough in taxing goods and taxable services. ....

How many restaurants/bars have you been in when the "drawer" is left open .... or do you just hand the cash over to the server?

Laundry mats, car washes, gum/favor machines, ... uhhh .... providers?

The government does a lousy job of collecting taxes on cash transactions.

What it takes is a natural disaster or an unnatural one, like a oil gusher in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico, for the "cash" and "barter" businesses to come out of the "wood work" filing claims for "reimbursement" of lost income with tax returns (state, federal, and local) that fail to support the claims ... ala .... what is happening right now ... to figure out that all income is not taxed ... and all sales are not either.

Or to put in a "country" sort of way:

The taxes are not collected, or they are collected and not reported.

So, now one gets rid of the IRS and expands the Texas Comptroller?

Is it "fair" for the "poor" person not to pay taxes for governmental services when their Escalade burns up the infrastructure and requires "protection" the same as an F150?

Saying that someone "taxes" goods and services is one thing ...

... collecting the taxes is yet another. Isn't that the purpose?

Collections?

[Sweet Heather]

Originally Posted by PSD

Can you say "threAD"?

..and you bitched about Tiffany? HA!

What a tool. HA!

[simpleton]

just a ploy to get more money out of the working man.

[JoeDelt]

oh boy.
This subject is a landmine.

Here is the 16th Amendment.

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."


You see it's like a farmer milking his cow.
We are the cow and the government is the farmer.
And he's always looking for better ways to milk his cows.

Also, when we die, they will take our meat in form of death tax.

If you think you're more than that, it's called herd mentality.

"flame on!"