What is a Liberal? What is a Conservative?

[DNinja69]

I chose the words Liberal and Conservative as this is not a question about political parties. In my opinion most people hold beliefs that would potentially disqualify them from claiming to be one or the other.

If this is true would it not be an exercise in futility to attempt to establish a ruling body that could be considered either substantially Liberal or Conservative?

Let me use Covid as an example. In Aug 2021 over a year after the initial shutdowns polls showed nearly 60% of adults in the US were in favor of teachers and students in K-12 wearing masks. Another 15% or so expressed no strong opinion either way. I think it would be fair to say both Liberals and Conservatives largely agreed masks should be worn in schools. If 75% of do not oppose a measure to further a public health concern what does that mean with regard to Liberal v Conservative?

[tommy156]

I'm pretty much liberal in all walks of life, but where the far left loses me is the on the transgender issue. I'm a firm believer in there only being two genders. If you wanna change your gender, fine. Just don't expect to compete in sports (or any other field) against your opposite birth sex and be treated as an equal.

But yeah... science, personal freedom, free speech, legalization of all drugs, universal healthcare, common sense gun regulations, the welcoming of any immigrants seeking asylum or a better opportunity through legal means... all very important to me.

This shit that DeSantis is trying to pull in Florida with abortion bans, book bans and a highly edited and incomplete educational curriculum is the exact opposite of how it should be in a free country. And then for the asshole to turn around and claim to be against big government is just insulting to everyone's intelligence. He's a first rate, piece of shit, hypocrite.

[Jacuzzme]

Liberals don’t like the USA in general, and like the Constitution even less

LOL at banning abortion and books. You’re pissy about things that aren’t reality. You can buy as much gay porn as turns you on but, like other porn, it has no business in schools. Groom on your own time, responsible parents prefer keeping the innocent innocent until a time that they see fit.

And abortion isn’t banned in Florida, there’s a limit on how far along in a pregnancy it can be done. I realize democrats believe that’s age 10, but normal people disagree.

[Cody69]

Liberals, one word, Robin Hood. Problem is sometimes the Liberals get carried away sometimes and give the store away. You will have that.

Conservative's take (ROB) from the poor. In other words, minimum wage is $7.25 if that is not robbing the poor nothing is. They don't want the poor to have health insurance. If they entertain themselves by fucking there old lady cause that don't cost money at least they can do that. And if she gets pregnant they don't want her to get an abortion. Once she has that baby then they don't want to help the family out. They only care about before the baby is born not after the baby is born that they couldn’t afford.

They don’t want them to own a car this way they have to beg people to get to where they want to go. They differently don’t want them to organize unions that way there plan of taking all their money off of them wouldn’t work. The poor would have someone to help fight for their rights which a real conservative don’t want.

If they knew where Robin Hood lived they would cut him into pieces just like Trumps Idol Mohammed bin Salman Al Saud did. They want normal people to beg and they continually trying to take their retirement funds from them that they paid for all their lives. Senator Scott to be exact and his gang of conservative thieves.

[DNinja69]

Originally Posted by Cody69

Liberals, one word, Robin Hood. Problem is sometimes the Liberals get carried away sometimes and give the store away. You will have that.

Conservative's take (ROB) from the poor. In other words, minimum wage is $7.25 if that is not robbing the poor nothing is. They don't want the poor to have health insurance.

Good points. I like the Robin Hood analogy. There is value in the idea of letting truly wealthy people and businesses pay a for a large chunk of the costs involved but the 'we must have the money the checkbook still has check in it' mentality gets out of hand quickly.

The conservative approach let markets operate with little oversight and manipulation as possible is a solid approach but without some set guidelines and updates to those the working class will pay more than their share in the process.

Minimum wage is another good example of an issue that a vast majority of citizens believe needs to be raised yet the last time it happened was 2009. it does not make sense to bump it up near $20/hour and definitely unsound policy to ignore it altogether.

Do we not have enough sense as a nation to understand that many of these issues are not a war to wage against those who favor more liberal or conservative approach but actual issues that demand we work towards some workable solution?

[Jacuzzme]

The freedom haters alliance on full display. If two people come to an agreement that one person will do work for the other, for a amount they both agree upon, that’s their business. It’s not mine, yours, and certainly not the government’s. This is a very simple concept. If you don’t want to work for a salary someone is offering, don’t. Get some skills that make yourself more marketable and negotiate a salary that you feel is reflective of your skill set. Either that, or sit around crying that The Man is keeping you down and go through life a loser.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by Cody69

Liberals, one word, Robin Hood. Problem is sometimes the Liberals get carried away sometimes and give the store away. You will have that.

Conservative's take (ROB) from the poor. In other words, minimum wage is $7.25 if that is not robbing the poor nothing is. They don't want the poor to have health insurance. If they entertain themselves by fucking there old lady cause that don't cost money at least they can do that. And if she gets pregnant they don't want her to get an abortion. Once she has that baby then they don't want to help the family out. They only care about before the baby is born not after the baby is born that they couldn’t afford.

They don’t want them to own a car this way they have to beg people to get to where they want to go. They differently don’t want them to organize unions that way there plan of taking all their money off of them wouldn’t work. The poor would have someone to help fight for their rights which a real conservative don’t want.

If they knew where Robin Hood lived they would cut him into pieces just like Trumps Idol Mohammed bin Salman Al Saud did. They want normal people to beg and they continually trying to take their retirement funds from them that they paid for all their lives. Senator Scott to be exact and his gang of conservative thieves.

amazing. everything you said is wrong. all of it.

the leftist media has told you this and you believe it. what you believe is wrong about conservatives.

prove conservatives rob from the poor when both the 2017 tax cuts and the 1986 tax cuts benefited the middle class the most not the rich. this is fact. the IRS's own data prove it.

prove in any way conservatives don't want certain people i presume you again mean the middle class to have a car.

[Cody69]

What you are saying sounds so easy. Just don't take the job. RIGHT. There are people in this world that don't have it mentally as in book smarts. Go pour cement, go put a roof on, operate a jack hammer, climb a 100' in the air and install or fix a crane. Walk the boom and fix it see how big your balls are then.

Those are all skills that don’t require books as much as muscle and special skills. Without muscle these houses wouldn’t be built nor would the bridges or anything else in this world.

The people that make the pay scale are book smart and couldn't change a tire if there life depended on it. So you say well go to school I did. Some people just don't have that type of intelligence. No difference not everyone has 4.2 speed.. Imagine how everyone would bitch about their pay scale then if they were deciding their pay.

No one should be making 15million a year when you have someone making less than 15 grand working there ass off and hurting themselves doing their job to feed their families and having their insurance taken away because a black man initiated it. Not that America is prejudice. We had slaves 200 years ago. How did that work out. I think we are still fighting that war. So go ahead fuck with the Mexican’s we will see how that works out 100 years from now.

[Cody69]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

amazing. everything you said is wrong. all of it.

the leftist media has told you this and you believe it. what you believe is wrong about conservatives.

prove conservatives rob from the poor when both the 2017 tax cuts and the 1986 tax cuts benefited the middle class the most not the rich. this is fact. the IRS's own data prove it.

prove in any way conservatives don't want certain people i presume you again mean the middle class to have a car.

The poor didn't get a 1.7 Trillion dollar tax cut. The rich did. Oh and the poor folk tax cut will go away in a few years. Read The Bill that Bone Spurs Signed.



So you say, well the rich will create jobs for the poor. Problem is not in the USA, in some country that don't speak English.


Oh and how did the economy do under Ronny Reagan 10% unemployment and got ride of all the steel mills and any kind of blue collar job in the US. So tell me how great the conservatives are. Problem is The liberals is just as fucked up in another direction.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by Cody69

The poor didn't get a 1.7 Trillion dollar tax cut. The rich did. Oh and the poor folk tax cut will go away in a few years. Read The Bill that Bone Spurs Signed.



So you say, well the rich will create jobs for the poor. Problem is not in the USA, in some country that don't speak English.


Oh and how did the economy do under Ronny Reagan 10% unemployment and got ride of all the steel mills and any kind of blue collar job in the US. So tell me how great the conservatives are. Problem is The liberals is just as fucked up in another direction.

how was the economy under jimmy carter? "liberals" like to claim Democrats are always cleaning up the "republican mess". seems like this time it was Reagan cleaning up jimmy's mess.


Democrats always think more spending is the answer to everything. nonsense.it's why the debt is over 31 trillion dollars now.


the wealthy do create jobs in the US. the manufacturing move to outside the US was the result of the highest corporate tax rate in the G20 nations. this is directly due to liberals over-regulating and overtaxing corporate America. this is why all those manufacturing jobs left the US.

[Cody69]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

how was the economy under jimmy carter? "liberals" like to claim Democrats are always cleaning up the "republican mess". seems like this time it was Reagan cleaning up jimmy's mess.


Democrats always think more spending is the answer to everything. nonsense.it's why the debt is over 31 trillion dollars now.


the wealthy do create jobs in the US. the manufacturing move to outside the US was the result of the highest corporate tax rate in the G20 nations. this is directly due to liberals over-regulating and overtaxing corporate America. this is why all those manufacturing jobs left the US.

I am not one of you guys, I tell it like it is. I voted for Reagan and wow, did I fuck up. Jimmy Carter they say was one of the most honest presidents we have ever had. I think he is the one with the line item veto. The democrats wanted him gone just like the Republicans did. Jimmy Carter may have not been the greatest, but Reagan, baby Bush, fucked this country up more than Jimmy ever thought of doing.
Reagan was in there for 8 years, you can’t blame Jimmy for 8 years. As far as office jobs, maybe Reagan did good, not here. He fucked Pittsburgh up that it never has recovered as far as blue collar jobs.
If you read any of my comments I am not like you guys stick up with a gangster like Trump. He is an embarrassment. I don’t like Biden either, but he is still better than the Gangster.
We need new blood on both sides.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by Cody69

I am not one of you guys, I tell it like it is. I voted for Reagan and wow, did I fuck up. Jimmy Carter they say was one of the most honest presidents we have ever had. I think he is the one with the line item veto. The democrats wanted him gone just like the Republicans did. Jimmy Carter may have not been the greatest, but Reagan, baby Bush, fucked this country up more than Jimmy ever thought of doing.
Reagan was in there for 8 years, you can’t blame Jimmy for 8 years. As far as office jobs, maybe Reagan did good, not here. He fucked Pittsburgh up that it never has recovered as far as blue collar jobs.
If you read any of my comments I am not like you guys stick up with a gangster like Trump. He is an embarrassment. I don’t like Biden either, but he is still better than the Gangster.
We need new blood on both sides.

tell it like it is or as you think it is? yeah there's a difference. the Reagan killed US Steel is a debate where you'll find two stories to it. the steel industry killed itself with union crap long before Reagan was elected.

so you are saying the steel industry hasn't recovered for over 30 years just because Reagan? nonsense.

i voted for Reagan too and don't regret it at all. he was in fact my literal commander in chief from 1980-1984.

so just to ask, how did Reagan fuck up America? you do know he won both of his elections in landslides especially 1984 where he won 49 states a feat not likely to ever happen again for either party.

do you think Carter could have forced Gorby and the USSR into a nuclear arms treaty like Reagan did? Carter wasn't tough enough to pull it off. Reagan was.

[chizzy]

Originally Posted by Cody69

The poor didn't get a 1.7 Trillion dollar tax cut. The rich did. Oh and the poor folk tax cut will go away in a few years. Read The Bill that Bone Spurs Signed.



So you say, well the rich will create jobs for the poor. Problem is not in the USA, in some country that don't speak English.


Oh and how did the economy do under Ronny Reagan 10% unemployment and got ride of all the steel mills and any kind of blue collar job in the US. So tell me how great the conservatives are. Problem is The liberals is just as fucked up in another direction.

cody........... completely wrong about reagan, first off the crazy inflation and unemployment was there when ronald took office from carter. carter was a horrible president and it took several years to bring the economy back mainly because of the tax cuts reagan brought in that fueled the economy. as stated earlier, why did you think he gor reelected in 1984 by winning virtually every state?? he brought this country back from a horrible time

and your remarks about him killing the steel industry are utter bullshit. I worked with the steel industry for over 45 years. I was in those plants everyday. I worked with corporate and the unions. I was there when the coffin was done. The unions were offered a new contract which included spending millions to upgrade the plants and modernize them. the unions turned it down
the all in one plants were doomed cody, they couldnt compete with the more modern plants abroad. The union killed themselves.
why do you think the nucors of the world came about? the smaller mini mills could produce steel alot cheaper than the old bof or open hearth plants across the usa. I know, I was there.

[Jacuzzme]

Originally Posted by Cody69

What you are saying sounds so easy. Just don't take the job. RIGHT. There are people in this world that don't have it mentally as in book smarts. Go pour cement, go put a roof on, operate a jack hammer, climb a 100' in the air and install or fix a crane. Walk the boom and fix it see how big your balls are then.

I did pour cement, and operate a jackhammer. Every summer in high school. My paycheck was a little under $300 every 2 weeks. Can’t say I’ve crawled out on a 100’ crane, although I’d imagine someone doing so is probably paid pretty well. You’re barking up the wrong tree. Very few days in the past 40 years that I haven’t had to wash up with Lava.

Those are all skills that don’t require books as much as muscle and special skills. Without muscle these houses wouldn’t be built nor would the bridges or anything else in this world.

So? I somehow disparaged blue collar workers? Far from it. The guy who cleans my sewer charges $250 for an hours work. He’s well into the 6 figures with a van, cell phone and a couple relatively inexpensive pieces of equipment. Granted he constantly smells like a buffalo’s ass, but no job is perfect. A good plumber can make more than a vascular surgeon.

The people that make the pay scale are book smart and couldn't change a tire if there life depended on it. So you say well go to school I did. Some people just don't have that type of intelligence. No difference not everyone has 4.2 speed.. Imagine how everyone would bitch about their pay scale then if they were deciding their pay.

Now you’re just making shit up out of whole cloth. I didn’t say that, likely because I’ve never stepped inside a university as a student.

No one should be making 15million a year when you have someone making less than 15 grand working there ass off and hurting themselves doing their job to feed their families and having their insurance taken away because a black man initiated it. Not that America is prejudice. We had slaves 200 years ago. How did that work out. I think we are still fighting that war. So go ahead fuck with the Mexican’s we will see how that works out 100 years from now.

You ok? There were a couple, although incorrect, coherent thoughts there but all the sudden it went completely off the rails.

[DNinja69]

Originally Posted by Cody69

We need new blood on both sides.

I agree 100% and that is exactly why I posed the question... What does it mean to be Conservative? Liberal?

The idea of freedom appeared here and that is a foundational element of our nation. Whatever side you fall on our rights and freedoms being held intact is a primary purpose of government.

The younger me heard the word 'values' spoken from Conservative viewpoints in ways that make sense to me as a person. Male. Hetero. Come from a home where Mom and Dad were raising the family together. The idea of a lean efficient government with reasonable tax rates makes sense.

The Liberal conversation often went to social programs ways to tax the wealthy in support of them. The idea of everyone being able to access basic healthcare and education without incurring life changing expense makes sense to me but at some point I heard a lot about funding wants and whims in ways that did not.

I believe that freedom includes being able to make personal choices on issues that don't affect others directly without much oversight. This means I would have to allow others to do the same which is not an endorsement of their choices but their right to make them. That is a Conservative value I hold in high regard I usually refer to it by using the word Liberty.

From time to time I am told this is a Liberal way of thinking. How so? Should we not embrace Liberty whether Conservative or Liberal?