Screening Advice for Newbies... And Others.

[Natalie Reign]

I am quite confused.

There seems to be an upward trend in the number of hobbyists attempting to use providers whom they have never seen BCD as references. More than one member here seems to think that contacting a provider and saying he wants to see her = seeing a provider and earning her seal of approval.

That's not exactly the way it's supposed to work, guys. Perhaps I'm a bit presumptuous in assuming that most people will instinctively know how the reference system works... it's not much different than getting a letter of recommendation or a job reference. You don't ask for either of those from people that don't know you... right? Is there a particular reason the same rules don't apply here?

I encountered this strange phenomena four times today alone. FOUR TIMES.

(1) A member contacted me last week and said that his ATF found me for him, and he wanted to see me while he was in Austin. He requested three appointments with me within a four-day period, totaling 8 hours of my time. Because of the amount of time I would be setting aside for someone I hadn't met before, I requested my standard 25% deposit for appointments longer than 4 hours. He agreed, then cleverly strung me along until the last possible minute. By the time I realized he was manipulating me, I had turned away 5 appointment requests for the time frame he has reserved. He never explained or apologized. Then, this morning, I received a call from another provider stating the guy was using me as a reference. WTF.

(2) Another potential client provided the name of 2 local providers (Provider A and B) as references. I contacted them and was told, "Sure, he's fine." In the midst of trying to schedule a session with him, he slips and says, 'Man, I can't wait to meet Provider A and Provider B. They seem really fun." I interject with a "Wait... you haven't met them? How are they verifying you if you haven't met?" FAIL for the hobbyist, and EPIC FAIL for the providers. WTF.

(3) Had an appointment request, and had trouble getting the guy to be forthcoming with his references. Out of curiosity, I found the only 2 reviews he's written (on another board). I contacted both of the ladies reviewed, and found out that he had never met either of them, and they weren't even aware he had written reviews on them. Writing fake reviews then trying to sketch out of screening? WTF.

(4) And finally, just because a provider (like me) has agreed to see you because you've passed her screening DOES NOT mean it's okay to use that provider as a reference if you haven't actually seen her yet.

So, with all that in mind, some friendly advice:

Hobbyists: Please don't use me as a reference and put me into the position of having to point out that we haven't met BCD, because I don't want to give your potential playmate the impression that you're being dishonest with her from the very beginning. You're probably a very nice guy, but I wouldn't know that because we haven't met yet. It could be hard to recover from the uneasy feeling that knowing you lied about your references would probably give her about you.

Hobbyists: If you have wasted a provider's time, flaked on her, canceled on her, insulted her, assaulted her, or had any number of other negative interactions with a provider, you should probably choose someone else to use as a reference. Just sayin'.

Hobbyists: Get a P411 ID. Use it. Any provider member of P411 can invite you, vouch for you if she's seen you, and give you a 6 month free membership. P411. It saves time. It saves lives.

Hobbyists & Providers: Don't write fake reviews, about yourself or about others. You will eventually get caught. And it's back to the trust issues again.

Providers: If you're going to give references, then at least be sure you've got your facts straight before you say someone is alright. If you legitimately don't remember whether you saw someone, admit it. I won't be mad at you. If you're confused as to which Dave, Dan, Bill, Jack, John or Chris I'm talking about, ask me for more information instead of just saying he's fine. I won't be mad at you. But if I accept your reference, then get attacked by a lunatic that you said was fine, and later find out you've never even seen him, I will definitely, definitely, be very mad at you.

Am I losing my mind, or it this trend really disturbing and a bit insane? Has anyone else noticed it?

[Elephant]

Originally Posted by Natalie Reign

(3) Had an appointment request, and had trouble getting the guy to be forthcoming with his references. Out of curiosity, I found the only 2 reviews he's written (on another board). I contacted both of the ladies reviewed, and found out that he had never met either of them, and they weren't even aware he had written reviews on them. Writing fake reviews then trying to sketch out of screening? WTF.

What if he uses another handle or name to post. Several guys do this. I normally use my p411 id and never mention "Elephant"

[Whispers]

Hobbyists: Just say No to any screening that involves providing any of your personal information.

Build References in other ways....

Do your Homework and it's not hard to build a rep without ever disclosing your personal information.

[Natalie Reign]

Most hobbyists who contact me are exceptionally good about providing their hobby handles, P411 ID and other screening info within the first or second email.

If I have trouble locating someone on a board, I'll ask better questions to find the information I need. In this guy's case, he claimed he found me through "the escorts site" so I had to ask which site he meant, and what his handle was on that site. I then went to the site he referenced (e.com) and found his only 2 reviews, which turned out to be fake. Not nice. (I'd like to send him an email that says, "Nice try, cop." but I think that might be a bit forward.)

But all in all, I rarely have a problem with screening or references. Few hobbyists refuse to provide them, so those that do are automatically eliminated from the potential client list. And luckily for me, I always verify references. If I had just taken the above-reference hobbyists' word for it, I could have found myself in a compromising position.

[Natalie Reign]

Originally Posted by Whispers

Hobbyists: Just say No to any screening that involves providing any of your personal information.

Build References in other ways....

Do your Homework and it's not hard to build a rep without ever disclosing your personal information.

Please don't turn this into another one of your "How to Avoid Screening" threads. We all know how you feel about screening, and you know how most providers feel about screening, so let's just revert back to the original purpose of the thread: making sure that if hobbyists do choose to provide references or providers do choose to provide verification, they offer real references and honest feedback. That's all.

[Rand Al'Thor]

Originally Posted by Natalie Reign

Please don't turn this into another one of your "How to Avoid Screening" threads. We all know how you feel about screening, and you know how most providers feel about screening, so let's just revert back to the original purpose of the thread: making sure that if hobbyists do choose to provide references or providers do choose to provide verification, they offer real references and honest feedback. That's all.

I think there's a compromise here. As Whispers urged, there are other ways to build references.

I, for one, don't make appointment requests through this board or my name. My P411 account would be tough to trace to my personal info or this handle. Otherwise, someone else who participates on the board could see some newbie friend provider, then build references associated only to his handle instead of his personal information. I'm just curious, Natalie, do you absolutely require personal information or would it be enough if I gave you my handle, PMed you from my handle through the board and gave you 3 or 4 verifiable references who can vouch that they have seen me?

[Natalie Reign]

A request through P411 or Date-Check with a couple of Okays will almost always suffice.

A PM on the board, from your handle, that allows me to see your reviews, and thus allows me to contact providers you've admitted to seeing, is pretty quick, too.

An email/PM/IM/text with your P411 ID and/or recent provider references with their contact info and as much info as you can provide about your meeting with them (to help jog their memories) is fantastic.

I don't disagree that it can be dangerous to give out personal information in the hobby. But my original post had nothing to do with providing personal information. All of the screening instances I mentioned were contacts through ECCIE or email from someone who claimed to have X board handle and had seen Provider Z. Or someone who claimed I saw him, and provider Y was checking on my recommendation.

The only time I ever ask for personal information is when someone claims they are a newbie or when I am given several references from providers I can verify as legitimate, but for one reason or another don't return my calls/emails/PMs about a reference check. This happens to me so rarely that when it does, my first suggestion is that I invite the gent to P411 and allow Gina to do the personal information screening for me, then decide whether I feel it's safe to see him. If I'm not comfortable with seeing a newbie for any reason, I refer him to one of several newbie-friendly providers that are more at ease with certain situations than I am. That system has never failed me thus far. She and her team are much more experienced at that aspect than I will ever be.

My career field would be rather unforgiving with regard to my participation in the hobby, so I have to be extra careful, and may ask what line of work a client is in, just so I'm prepared. And of course, if a client requests and outcall, I'm going to require his address. And if I don't know the client, I will search the address to ensure it's not a crack house, the home of a registered sex offender, in a sketchy neighborhood, or any number of unsavory things that you can find publicly available online.

Most of the providers I know require similar info as I do. Out of curiosity, gents... what kind of personal information are providers asking you for that you're uncomfortable giving out?

[Rand Al'Thor]

Originally Posted by Natalie Reign

A request through P411 or Date-Check with a couple of Okays will almost always suffice.

A PM on the board, from your handle, that allows me to see your reviews, and thus allows me to contact providers you've admitted to seeing, is pretty quick, too.

An email/PM/IM/text with your P411 ID and/or recent provider references with their contact info and as much info as you can provide about your meeting with them (to help jog their memories) is fantastic.

I don't disagree that it can be dangerous to give out personal information in the hobby. But my original post had nothing to do with providing personal information. All of the screening instances I mentioned were contacts through ECCIE or email from someone who claimed to have X board handle and had seen Provider Z. Or someone who claimed I saw him, and provider Y was checking on my recommendation.

I know, I was just trying to find the common ground in what both you and Whispers said. You aren't really disagreeing.

The only time I ever ask for personal information is when someone claims they are a newbie or when I am given several references from providers I can verify as legitimate, but for one reason or another don't return my calls/emails/PMs about a reference check. This happens to me so rarely that when it does, my first suggestion is that I invite the gent to P411 and allow Gina to do the personal information screening for me, then decide whether I feel it's safe to see him. If I'm not comfortable with seeing a newbie for any reason, I refer him to one of several newbie-friendly providers that are more at ease with certain situations than I am. That system has never failed me thus far. She and her team are much more experienced at that aspect than I will ever be.

My career field would be rather unforgiving with regard to my participation in the hobby, so I have to be extra careful, and may ask what line of work a client is in, just so I'm prepared. And of course, if a client requests and outcall, I'm going to require his address. And if I don't know the client, I will search the address to ensure it's not a crack house, the home of a registered sex offender, in a sketchy neighborhood, or any number of unsavory things that you can find publicly available online.

Most of the providers I know require similar info as I do. Out of curiosity, gents... what kind of personal information are providers asking you for that you're uncomfortable giving out?

Personally, I've been asked my address for incall appointments, my full name, employer, and my number and extension at work.

[austinkboy]

Other than when joining P411, I have never been asked for personal information. I have also never provided my P411 ID diectly to a provider I don't know. I will always, as the rules say, send a request from P411. Otherwise, I have been asked for 2 to 3 provider references, but no personal info. I guess I must have enough review count on Eccie that more often, just sending an Eccie PM to confirm that I am really me and not just someone claiming to be me seems to be enough.

[eglrdr]

Originally Posted by Natalie Reign

Hobbyists: Get a P411 ID. Use it. Any provider member of P411 can invite you, vouch for you if she's seen you, and give you a 6 month free membership. P411. It saves time. It saves lives.

Just for the record, it takes two vouches for the 6 month free, that being said P411 was a painless way to dive in, and for the now I believe $85, is worth every penny. I was referred by the 1st provider I had seen, filled out the membership form, paid the fee, and within 10 minutes received a call at work(all of my calls are screened by the operator, not an issue), and was done. Basic +1.

Now I have a question in regard to checking references, if I give my P411 to a provider, its pretty easy to see in the tracking if my profile was checked, the question is this, does a provider have the ability to check my ok's without clicking thru to my profile?

The reason I ask is, I wonder sometimes if I'm even checked. Example, I was with a provider a couple of weeks ago that I gave my P411 info to, in the course of conversation during the session, she said, btw, who were your references again. To say I was a little taken aback would be an understatement. I give P411 info and references if requested because I WANT you to check, if you don't care enough about your safety, I'm pretty sure your not concerned about mine.

[Natalie Reign]

I know of providers that will simply see the number of Okays in the P411 request that shows up in their inbox (P411 shows your status as something like, Basic Plus (41 Okays) and just count the member as verified. I don't personally see a problem with that if it works for them, because a guy with 5, 11, or 41 Okays is likely to I like to read through the hobbyist's profile, make sure we're compatible according to his Likes/Dislikes and Comments section, and then gloss over who his Okays were from. If his Okays are from providers that I know, often have clients in common with, or have heard from multiple clients that we deliver similar experiences, then I can be pretty sure we're going to click. If I don't know the providers, I'll contact them to get a little info on turn ons, turn offs and anything I may need to know, i.e., "He's in recovery, so you shouldn't offer him an alcoholic drink."

Honestly, once you're over the P411 hurdle, the number of references I need may be subjective. Not to single anyone out or be "cliquish" (because we're really not like that, despite how it may appear), but I can pretty much bank on the fact that if you've Sophie, Sophia, Tess, Ella, Liv, Taylor or Brit, and they've given you an Okay, then we're going to get along wonderfully. That's simply because I'm familiar with the ladies and their style, and know that we seem to have multiple mutual regulars. I'm sure other providers have certain groups of providers that they do this with.

Thor, everyone employs different screening methods. As a provider, I've heard stories of men who were perfectly behaved with 3-4 ladies, earned their references, and then went crazy on the next one. I've also had instances where I refused to see someone because something about them rubbed me the wrong way... and then they contact me a year later with references from ladies I know well, and we meet, and have a great time. Unfortunately, the hobby can take its toll on ladies, and if someone without extensive hobby experience contacts a provider during a time frame where LE seems to be pretty active (like now, with the e.com debacle - I'm refusing to see a client off e.com just because I'm weirded out about the raid), or providers have reported an increased number of alert-worthy threads, or one of the infamous provider stalkers has come out of hiding... we all tend to get a bit more paranoid. And that's okay; it's nothing personal. Just the way things go.

[bestoralntexas]

Originally Posted by Whispers

Hobbyists: Just say No to any screening that involves providing any of your personal information.

Build References in other ways....

Do your Homework and it's not hard to build a rep without ever disclosing your personal information.

I agree for the most part. Providers have game, that is what we called it when we began and picked our 1st alias, and that is where alot of the GFE comes in, it's manufactured-"game".
There is to much either side for anyone to have your real information. I see Newbies, and I tell them exactly this: Dont bring your cell phone that you call your wife on! Don't give us your real and whole name! Or any other real details, Learn to lie, and that is to individuals.
As far as P411, Date Check, etc.. Even the forums like Eccie, consider where the site is, meaning there server. And the laws in that country. I know Gina at the P, is clear there, but obviously any U.S. based site is bound by the State and Federal Law. I do recommend P411 to my clients,and I give them a 90 day reference, with there little speeches. So many of them bring there phones, email me from the family account, come in with there wallet and credit cards. Then I say let me show the restroom and shower, they say "No Thank you"; and the next speech on how to not get robbed at an in call begins. Guys, always say ok, even if you just use that time to scope out theres no Pimps hiding in the shower! And only see reviewed girls, I recommend at least 3 reviews, and she is probably not gonna rob you-hope not anyway. Just kidding,she won't.LOL

But the aliases with aliases...thats too much. Yall know what i am talking about. Have a lovely day, and I will see you even if you tell me your name is Davey Jones

[blenderhead]

Most providers don't check my P411 profile these days (even you, Natalie!), and nobody asks me about my handle. Only two girls know who I am on here because they asked me after I posted a review, but most don't seem to care. Which is fine with me. The more anonymity I have in this hobby, the safer I feel.

If for some reason I contact a provider through ECCIE PM because I can't find them on P411, I'd hate for them to automatically contact providers I have reviewed because they will have no clue who I am.

[MarleyMonroe]

Great post girl! Very valid points!! I've had a few guys lately trying to use references that were over 8months old. A lot can happen in 8months!

[MarleyMonroe]

Now I have a question in regard to checking references, if I give my P411 to a provider, its pretty easy to see in the tracking if my profile was checked, the question is this, does a provider have the ability to check my ok's without clicking thru to my profile[/QUOTE]

yes, when u send an apt. Request the # of okays shows up in the email