Sweden’s disease expert says just wearing face masks could be ‘very dangerous’

[dilbert firestorm]

Sweden’s disease expert says just wearing face masks could be ‘very dangerous’

By Jackie Salo
August 19, 2020 | 10:46am

Sweden’s top infectious disease expert has resisted recommending face masks for the general population — arguing it’s “very dangerous” if people believe the coverings alone will stop the spread of the coronavirus.

Anders Tegnell, chief epidemiologist at Sweden’s Public Health Agency, has repeatedly expressed skepticism that face masks will control virus outbreaks, the Financial Times reported.

“It is very dangerous to believe face masks would change the game when it comes to COVID-19,” said Tengell, who is considered the country’s equivalent of Dr. Anthony Fauci from the White House COVID-19 task force.

He noted that countries with widespread mask compliance, such as Belgium and Spain, were still seeing rising virus rates.

“Face masks can be a complement to other things when other things are safely in place,” he said. “But to start with having face masks and then think you can crowd your buses or your shopping malls — that’s definitely a mistake.”

He completely brushed off the prospect of wearing masks last month, saying, “With numbers diminishing very quickly in Sweden, we see no point in wearing a face mask in Sweden, not even on public transport.”

Tegnell has argued that evidence about the effectiveness of face mask use was “astonishingly weak.”

“I’m surprised that we don’t have more or better studies showing what effect masks actually have,” he told the UK Times.

The infectious disease expert has faced backlash after the nation controversially refused to lock down, leading to a higher death rate per capita than neighboring countries that took stricter approaches.


Sweden’s chief epidemiologist, Anders TegnellTT NEWS AGENCY/AFP via Getty Images

Sweden has recorded at least 85,000 cases, including more than 5,800 fatalities, according to the latest figures from Johns Hopkins University.

[oeb11]

Oh where are the DPST's - to whom Sweden is a socialist Paradise - and whom have made mask wearing a politicized matter that anyone with out a mask is beaten by DPST enforcers OBLM and Anti-Fa.



The usual hypocrisy - right 9500???


I personally think masks may slow the wuhan virus progression through the population - and ease the burden on our health care systems - but appreciate that people do this voluntarily - and not under the jackboot of socialist DPST controlling authoritarians governance.
many areas now it is a crime to appear in public - and maybe even in one's own home - without a mask. Given Biden's and the DPST love of Omar, tlaib , and their radical islam - next they will start amputations as punishment for not wearing a mask - whether hands, feet, noses, or perhaps tongues and eyes - they can set up empty NFL stadiums and bring the population in to watch the entertainment - as in Saudi Arabia.

of course - for such entertainment - the rules of social distancing must be 'relaxed"!



And Special box seats for Omar, Tlaib, and islamic mullahs.

[Strokey_McDingDong]

Fauci was saying the exact same thing before the politicization began. Fauci even criticized the Chinese lockdown early on.

Sweden's death rate is lower than Italy's, UK's and Spain's, which all locked down.

So, really, do lockdowns even work? Fauci had said, historically, they don't work. However, if you asked him now, I'm sure he'd say something different.

[bambino]

Biden wants to shut it down again.

[SecretE]

Sweden basically used the herd immunity strategy and they are already starting to get back to a somewhat-normal life. Granted, their population is a lot more homogeneous than a country like the United States, so perhaps certain genetics more-resistant to COVID-19 is more-widespread there...but some food for thought.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

Sweden’s disease expert says just wearing face masks could be ‘very dangerous’

By Jackie Salo
August 19, 2020 | 10:46am

Sweden’s top infectious disease expert has resisted recommending face masks for the general population — arguing it’s “very dangerous” if people believe the coverings alone will stop the spread of the coronavirus.

Anders Tegnell, chief epidemiologist at Sweden’s Public Health Agency, has repeatedly expressed skepticism that face masks will control virus outbreaks, the Financial Times reported.

“It is very dangerous to believe face masks would change the game when it comes to COVID-19,” said Tengell, who is considered the country’s equivalent of Dr. Anthony Fauci from the White House COVID-19 task force.

He noted that countries with widespread mask compliance, such as Belgium and Spain, were still seeing rising virus rates.

“Face masks can be a complement to other things when other things are safely in place,” he said. “But to start with having face masks and then think you can crowd your buses or your shopping malls — that’s definitely a mistake.”

He completely brushed off the prospect of wearing masks last month, saying, “With numbers diminishing very quickly in Sweden, we see no point in wearing a face mask in Sweden, not even on public transport.”

Tegnell has argued that evidence about the effectiveness of face mask use was “astonishingly weak.”

“I’m surprised that we don’t have more or better studies showing what effect masks actually have,” he told the UK Times.

The infectious disease expert has faced backlash after the nation controversially refused to lock down, leading to a higher death rate per capita than neighboring countries that took stricter approaches.


Sweden’s chief epidemiologist, Anders TegnellTT NEWS AGENCY/AFP via Getty Images

Sweden has recorded at least 85,000 cases, including more than 5,800 fatalities, according to the latest figures from Johns Hopkins University.

How do these numbers compare to New York City? Sweden and NYC have about the same population. I haven't heard much about Tokyo Japan's Covid numbers. Tokyo is the most densely populated city in the world with about 15 million people. I think it takes much more than wearing a mask and Social Distancing, which has questionable effectiveness at best to thwart the spread of any virus or pathogen that may plaque the human being with a disease.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

How do these numbers compare to New York City? Sweden and NYC have about the same population. I haven't heard much about Tokyo Japan's Covid numbers. Tokyo is the most densely populated city in the world with about 15 million people. I think it takes much more than wearing a mask and Social Distancing, which has questionable effectiveness at best to thwart the spread of any virus or pathogen that may plaque the human being with a disease.

this is from the danes, washing hands seems to be the major factor in minimizing the virus. they weren't wearing masks except for when they're boarding public transportation.

[reddog1951]

Quotes from the same article cited by Dilbert, but not mentioned:

Mr Tegnell has been branded stubborn by some for again refusing to follow most of the continent. But infectious disease specialists say there are reasons why Sweden has so far resisted their use for the general population. Jonas Ludvigsson, professor of clinical epidemiology at Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, said one was the way the country was governed. In Sweden, independent bodies such as Mr Tegnell’s public health agency played a “very strong role” and elected officials listened to them, he said. “In Denmark and Norway, politicians have a stronger role. Politicians in this era of crisis want to look strong and don’t always take decisions that are evidence-based,” he added.

Another reason for Swedish reluctance, according to experts, is high trust in the authorities. “When the Swedish health agency says there’s no reason to wear face masks, people don’t wear face masks,” said Prof Ludvigsson. “In other countries, where there’s less trust and they don’t recommend wearing masks, people might do it anyway.”

I'm not going to bother doing the research to prove, but US, even in hard hit areas is nowhere achieving herd immunity, and may not even with a vaccine (depends on effectiveness, % vaccinated, number of doses needed, etc.). I doubt that Sweden is significantly further in achieving herd immunity than we; no one knows the true #, but 60-70 % immune population is in the ball park. Last time I researched a couple months ago, NYC was around 15%.

Finally some articles about effectiveness of masks below, for those that care to "bone up". Humor there, related to the theme of this site:

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/amp...or-not-to-wear

https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.or...s-droplets.amp

https://www.fox6now.com/news/doctor-...-spreading.amp

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/we...d9A?li=BBnb7Kz

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

this is from the danes, washing hands seems to be the major factor in minimizing the virus. they weren't wearing masks except for when they're boarding public transportation.

I agree, regular washing of the hands is definitely a major defense of virus and Bacterial infections. In fact whenever I am in a public restroom after I wash my hands and dry them with a paper towel, I use that same paper towel to open the door as I leave, I'll turn and toss it into the waste can. I've been doing that for years. I also line toilet seats with toilet paper before I plop my ass on a public toilet. Public facilities are breeding grounds for communicable diseases. Pathogenic Bacteria is what I concern myself with the most. A mask won't protect you against direct contact transmission of a pathogen.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by reddog1951

Quotes from the same article cited by Dilbert, but not mentioned:

Mr Tegnell has been branded stubborn by some for again refusing to follow most of the continent. But infectious disease specialists say there are reasons why Sweden has so far resisted their use for the general population. Jonas Ludvigsson, professor of clinical epidemiology at Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, said one was the way the country was governed. In Sweden, independent bodies such as Mr Tegnell’s public health agency played a “very strong role” and elected officials listened to them, he said. “In Denmark and Norway, politicians have a stronger role. Politicians in this era of crisis want to look strong and don’t always take decisions that are evidence-based,” he added.

Another reason for Swedish reluctance, according to experts, is high trust in the authorities. “When the Swedish health agency says there’s no reason to wear face masks, people don’t wear face masks,” said Prof Ludvigsson. “In other countries, where there’s less trust and they don’t recommend wearing masks, people might do it anyway.”

I'm not going to bother doing the research to prove, but US, even in hard hit areas is nowhere achieving herd immunity, and may not even with a vaccine (depends on effectiveness, % vaccinated, number of doses needed, etc.). I doubt that Sweden is significantly further in achieving herd immunity than we; no one knows the true #, but 60-70 % immune population is in the ball park. Last time I researched a couple months ago, NYC was around 15%.

Finally some articles about effectiveness of masks below, for those that care to "bone up". Humor there, related to the theme of this site:

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/amp...or-not-to-wear

https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.or...s-droplets.amp

https://www.fox6now.com/news/doctor-...-spreading.amp

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/we...d9A?li=BBnb7Kz

You are correct. Neither the USA or Sweden is anywhere close to herd immunity.

Publicly Tegnell won't admit that he's pursuing herd immunity. Privately he has:

https://nypost.com/2020/08/21/sweden...ity-rationale/

To esteemed poster Dilbert I'd say most epidemiologists, virologists and public health experts who work with Covid believe Tegnell is a Dumb Ass. And many ordinary Swedes do too:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...egy-poll-finds

At this point in time Sweden occupies 7th place in the world, out of 160 countries, in the race for most deaths from Covid per capita. Not an enviable position. Furthermore their response to Covid hasn't saved their economy. GDP was down by 8.6% year on year in the second quarter. Compare to:

USA: -9.5%
Netherlands: -9.3%
South Korea: -2.9%
Taiwan: -0.6%

I include the Netherlands 2Q GDP as I'd promised Dilbert that. I believe he was pointing to that country as an example to follow, like Sweden. I'm including South Korea and Taiwan because they had their acts together from the start and did things right, with masks, contact tracing and distancing, and without having to shut their economies down.

What sucks, the USA is probably going to blow by Sweden at some point in terms of per capita deaths from Covid. And you can't blame that on our government, as the Swedish government has been laxer with the masks and closings. You can blame it on people here taking the disease less seriously than the Swedes, and not taking precautions like social distancing and self-quarantine (when appropriate) when they should be. In our defense, the Swedes, like the New Yorkers, experienced carnage, especially in their old folks homes, early on, so they have reason to take the disease seriously. We've only recently reached that point in the South, Texas and California.

[sexykarma]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

I agree, regular washing of the hands is definitely a major defense of virus and Bacterial infections. In fact whenever I am in a public restroom after I wash my hands and dry them with a paper towel, I use that same paper towel to open the door as I leave, I'll turn and toss it into the waste can. I've been doing that for years. I also line toilet seats with toilet paper before I plop my ass on a public toilet. Public facilities are breeding grounds for communicable diseases. Pathogenic Bacteria is what I concern myself with the most. A mask won't protect you against direct contact transmission of a pathogen.

I do the same thing with washing hands and using the towel to open the door. Hate those air dryers so I learned to carry a few napkins in my back pockets to dry off and turn the door handle. Seemed pointless to wash hands then grab a damp door handle and wonder if that was water or piss and how many germs are on my hand now.

Of course the very first thing though is to check that there's toilet paper in the stall, then check the seat for drops. If you walk in and it looks like someone's ass exploded then move on to the next stall.

But....getting back to the topic, what can it really hurt to wear a mask if the alternative if openly breathing each others clouds? If masks filter and slow down the exhaust coming out of our lungs then isn't that a good thing? I understand masks don't filter 100% but aren't they better than wearing no mask at all?

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by sexykarma

But....getting back to the topic, what can it really hurt to wear a mask if the alternative if openly breathing each others clouds? If masks filter and slow down the exhaust coming out of our lungs then isn't that a good thing? I understand masks don't filter 100% but aren't they better than wearing no mask at all?

No, yes and yes. The evidence strongly favors wearing masks.

[friendly fred]

Originally Posted by bambino

Biden wants to shut it down again.

Fuck Biden and fuck lockdowns!

Numbers are coming down and we have opened up many places in Texas. We have more natural social distancing here of course, plus a better healthcare system.

Those idiots in Manhattan can't even eat inside a restaurant for the last month.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by sexykarma

I do the same thing with washing hands and using the towel to open the door. Hate those air dryers so I learned to carry a few napkins in my back pockets to dry off and turn the door handle. Seemed pointless to wash hands then grab a damp door handle and wonder if that was water or piss and how many germs are on my hand now.

Of course the very first thing though is to check that there's toilet paper in the stall, then check the seat for drops. If you walk in and it looks like someone's ass exploded then move on to the next stall.

But....getting back to the topic, what can it really hurt to wear a mask if the alternative if openly breathing each others clouds? If masks filter and slow down the exhaust coming out of our lungs then isn't that a good thing? I understand masks don't filter 100% but aren't they better than wearing no mask at all?

When you breath in the natural air it's the oxygen present in the air that your body utilizes for respiration. There is only about 22% Oxygen in the air we breath the other 78% is other gases our bodies really can't utilize for respiration. When we exhale we give off Carbon Dioxide which of course is waste product of respiration. Ok so with that out of the way, now you wear a mask to ward off contracting a virus. So now you are inhaling and exhaling through a mask which is commonly made up of synthetic fibers, cotton cloth ect. The mask is like a double edge sword. It may offer protection when in immediate contact of an infected person such as Health Care workers in a Hospital setting or caring for a loved one infected with the virus. On the flip side of that coin strolling through town or driving with a mask on for prolonged periods of time could lower your over all oxygen in take and could cause a dangerous condition known as Hypoxia which is an absence of enough oxygen in the tissues to sustain bodily functions. Also low oxygen levels in the body suppress the immune system and provide rather optimum conditions for many pathogens including viruses to thrive. So it's a matter of weighing out the pros and cons for what your individual needs might be.

[dilbert firestorm]

don't forget mask mouth. its condition where people who wear mask everyday have poor dental condition.