Covert Operation 'Blown'?

[I B Hankering]

Some here were debating this topic a few days ago in another thread. It seems this revelation was inappropriate and did endanger an ongoing operation.


White House Conference Call On 'Underwear Bomb' Plot May Have Disclosed Covert Operation

Reuters | Posted: 05/18/2012

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/18/john-brennan-underwear-bomb-aqap_n_1527451.html

[JD Barleycorn]

Just one more intelligence failure brought to us by the White House. Making politics at the expense of people's lives and national security. What is really amazing is that some people will accuse other administrations of this crime (yes, I called it a crime), watch corrupt presidents do this on film and hiss at the villain but when they see it in real life and it is their guy, they have so little character that they can't call it.
Just add this to the list of;
killing rather than capturing Bin Laden
Not destroying the stealth helicopter remains with a cruise missile
Not destroying the stealth drone with a cruise missile

Yes, I was on Bush's case for not destroying the P-3 that was forced down by the Chinese early in his presidency.

[i'va biggen]

wonder if you have thought out the ramification of having a Bin Laden alive?

[JD Barleycorn]

I have (silly ninny). We do not have to announce that we have Bin Laden. Unless you are more interested in publicity than intel. The bad guys (you know, muslim terrorists) would not know what had been revealed. They would have to cancel operations, move agents around, and generally duck until the dust cleared. With Bin Laden dead they know that he can't be pumped for information. Of course, maybe Bin Laden is still alive and singing. That whole death thing was fakery. That is why we can't see the body. So tell me, do you think Obama is that smart and would forego the publicity.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

I have (silly ninny). We do not have to announce that we have Bin Laden. Unless you are more interested in publicity than intel. The bad guys (you know, muslim terrorists) would not know what had been revealed. They would have to cancel operations, move agents around, and generally duck until the dust cleared. With Bin Laden dead they know that he can't be pumped for information. Of course, maybe Bin Laden is still alive and singing. That whole death thing was fakery. That is why we can't see the body. So tell me, do you think Obama is that smart and would forego the publicity.

The pictures will probably show up in the Press in October.

[Old-T]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Just one more intelligence failure brought to us by the White House. Making politics at the expense of people's lives and national security. What is really amazing is that some people will accuse other administrations of this crime (yes, I called it a crime), watch corrupt presidents do this on film and hiss at the villain but when they see it in real life and it is their guy, they have so little character that they can't call it.
Just add this to the list of;
killing rather than capturing Bin Laden
Not destroying the stealth helicopter remains with a cruise missile
Not destroying the stealth drone with a cruise missile

Yes, I was on Bush's case for not destroying the P-3 that was forced down by the Chinese early in his presidency.

Sadly, ALL administrations have blown sources and methods because they were too stupid or too greedy--or both. This was wrong, as were things I have personally seen going back to the 70s from every administration. Generally the Dems do it more often--and it seems out of stupidity. The Reps do it less often, but (especially with GWB) with far more intentional vindictiveness.

I'm not sure if it's a greater indictment to be a stupid politician or an amoral one. It would be nice if those were not our only choices, but the last presidential candidate who I felt avoided both those traits was Bush #1.

As far as your cruise missile comments, let's just say you don't know what you are talking about.

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

I have (silly ninny). We do not have to announce that we have Bin Laden. Unless you are more interested in publicity than intel. The bad guys (you know, muslim terrorists) would not know what had been revealed. They would have to cancel operations, move agents around, and generally duck until the dust cleared. With Bin Laden dead they know that he can't be pumped for information. Of course, maybe Bin Laden is still alive and singing. That whole death thing was fakery. That is why we can't see the body. So tell me, do you think Obama is that smart and would forego the publicity.

sure silly ninny we could send helicopters in to Pakistan take him out and no one would know about it.you watch too much TV,

[JD Barleycorn]

It is called denial. Who are you going to believe (I know who you believe) a bunch of terrorists or the White House. Of course it is not in the best interest of the terrorists to show that their great leader can be caught. They won't want that. So if we had kept our mouth shut (and not endangered SEAL team six) I don't think they would have talked either. Then it would have been a contest to who could move faster to roll up agents.

[JD Barleycorn]

Yes, sending cruise missiles into Pakistan, Iran, or an island off China would have been problematic but I don't think any of them would have gone to war over it and we would have demonstated our resolve. We would have also protected our secrets.

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

It is called denial. Who are you going to believe (I know who you believe) a bunch of terrorists or the White House. Of course it is not in the best interest of the terrorists to show that their great leader can be caught. They won't want that. So if we had kept our mouth shut (and not endangered SEAL team six) I don't think they would have talked either. Then it would have been a contest to who could move faster to roll up agents.

you should be a expert on denial you live in it most of the time

[Munchmasterman]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Just one more intelligence failure brought to us by the White House. Making politics at the expense of people's lives and national security. What is really amazing is that some people will accuse other administrations of this crime (yes, I called it a crime), watch corrupt presidents do this on film and hiss at the villain but when they see it in real life and it is their guy, they have so little character that they can't call it.
Just add this to the list of;
killing rather than capturing Bin Laden
Not destroying the stealth helicopter remains with a cruise missile
Not destroying the stealth drone with a cruise missile

Yes, I was on Bush's case for not destroying the P-3 that was forced down by the Chinese early in his presidency.

This is an instance of you slinging bullshit that is an attempt to confuse the real issues,


This OP is a valid fuck up by the Obama administration. But that's not good enough for you.

You include:
Kill instead of capture: Everything you said was a benefit from his capture was achieved by his death. What could be in his head that wasn't in the mother lode of data? Obviously everything and nothing. Neither you or al Qaeda had a clue exactly what had been found. Bin laden would not know the location of every safe house, the people involved in all operations, account numbers, etc. If bin Laden had not been home, the data haul made the raid a huge success. Capturing him would have created far more problems than killing him. He was not worth the life of a single SEAL.

He reached, they shot, they came back, he did not.

Burial at sea, no "sacred plot of Earth for a martyr’s shrine”. Simple.
End of story.

As far as destroying the drone or helicopter, thank God you had no say in the options: If it is important enough to destroy by performing an act of war, how many missiles should we launch to insure a hit? 2? 5? 10? 1000? Like many people who only have rush-like sources, they don't realize the key issues. The secrets of stealth aren't, at this point, to be found in the recovered items. A few methods of the use of RAM and some other things but the main thing is they can't possibly duplicate the processes to manufacture and assemble the RAM itself. Or have equipment to work the materials. Not for some time. The Russians knew how to make much quieter propellers for their nuclear subs. But they didn't have the needed machine tools or computers to manufacture them....until the Japanese sold them to the Russians.
The codes? You change them. It wasn't good they recovered the items. But what we lost was not worth a possible war over. The command structure and the civilians in charge determined the cons far outweighed the pros. Simple.
You don't agree? So?

The P3 during Bush's presidency? A none issue. I don't know why the pilot didn't give the crew more time to drop system modules into the sea but a P3 is an Electra airliner from the 50s. The Chinese could have removed every sensitive item in less than an hour. The decision to launch and the flight time for a cruise missile would be several hours.

[JD Barleycorn]

You know munchie I don't think you were in the military. You don't sound like it. I remember three years... you really didn't have time to figure out what you were doing before you left and it shows when you talk.

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

This is an instance of you slinging bullshit that is an attempt to confuse the real issues,


This OP is a valid fuck up by the Obama administration. But that's not good enough for you.

You include:
Kill instead of capture: Everything you said was a benefit from his capture was achieved by his death. What could be in his head that wasn't in the mother lode of data? Obviously everything and nothing. Neither you or al Qaeda had a clue exactly what had been found. Bin laden would not know the location of every safe house, the people involved in all operations, account numbers, etc. If bin Laden had not been home, the data haul made the raid a huge success. Capturing him would have created far more problems than killing him. He was not worth the life of a single SEAL.

He reached, they shot, they came back, he did not.

Burial at sea, no "sacred plot of Earth for a martyr’s shrine”. Simple.
End of story.

As far as destroying the drone or helicopter, thank God you had no say in the options: If it is important enough to destroy by performing an act of war, how many missiles should we launch to insure a hit? 2? 5? 10? 1000? Like many people who only have rush-like sources, they don't realize the key issues. The secrets of stealth aren't, at this point, to be found in the recovered items. A few methods of the use of RAM and some other things but the main thing is they can't possibly duplicate the processes to manufacture and assemble the RAM itself. Or have equipment to work the materials. Not for some time. The Russians knew how to make much quieter propellers for their nuclear subs. But they didn't have the needed machine tools or computers to manufacture them....until the Japanese sold them to the Russians.
The codes? You change them. It wasn't good they recovered the items. But what we lost was not worth a possible war over. The command structure and the civilians in charge determined the cons far outweighed the pros. Simple.
You don't agree? So?

The P3 during Bush's presidency? A none issue. I don't know why the pilot didn't give the crew more time to drop system modules into the sea but a P3 is an Electra airliner from the 50s. The Chinese could have removed every sensitive item in less than an hour. The decision to launch and the flight time for a cruise missile would be several hours.

You really believe whatever the Administration wants you believe, don't you, Munchie? Truly sad. True definition of an Obamazombie.

[ForumPoster]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Just one more intelligence failure brought to us by the White House. Making politics at the expense of people's lives and national security. What is really amazing is that some people will accuse other administrations of this crime (yes, I called it a crime), watch corrupt presidents do this on film and hiss at the villain but when they see it in real life and it is their guy, they have so little character that they can't call it.
Just add this to the list of;
killing rather than capturing Bin Laden
Not destroying the stealth helicopter remains with a cruise missile
Not destroying the stealth drone with a cruise missile

Yes, I was on Bush's case for not destroying the P-3 that was forced down by the Chinese early in his presidency.

It is sad but it seems that "look at me" mentality has spread from teenagers to the people in charge of our safety and future.

What happened to getting things done and not worrying about recognition? Every single thing has to be spinned for publicity and brownie points.

Lina

[i'va biggen]

everyone want's to SPIKE THE BALL when the play is over.