Victimless Crimes

[charlestudor2005]

PJ's thread about the crackdown on gambling HERE caused me to wonder what the attitude is on this board to the so-called victimless crimes. If I remember correctly, some are:

• gambling
• prostitution
• edited for reference to topic not permitted.
• pornography
• any thing else you might consider covered by this umbrella

So, what is your position? Are these crimes truly victimless? Should society have laws regulating this kind of conduct?

[Whirlaway]

-Driving over the speed limit

-Owning an assult weapon (fully auto); heck, owning a bazooka, land mines or any other defensive weaponry that is illegal to possess.

-prayer in school

[Doove]

I don't think there should be laws against any of them. But i also think it's utterly stupid to complain when laws that exist, for better or worse, are enforced.

Yeah, PJ, i'm talkin' to you.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

-
-prayer in school

I don't wanna have to pray in school or listen to a bunch of folks doing it during school.

Isn't that what that tax exempt church is for?

[JohnMacnab]

Government should prove that everything on your list is harmful to society or else repeal the laws. Laws should not regulate morals which is what victimless crime laws are all about.

[Marcus Aurelius]

We would need someone who is well versed in spotting hypocrisy to keep things straight and level though.

Sort of like how N.O.W. says women should have a right to control their bodies when it comes to abortion but when it comes to being an escort they can't.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius

We would need someone who is well versed in spotting hypocrisy to keep things straight and level though.

Sort of like how N.O.W. says women should have a right to control their bodies when it comes to abortion but when it comes to being an escort they can't.

Women are hell bent on keeping other women down IMHO. N.O.W. is just being judgmental. I think all the topics that Charles and everyone brought up, just like all vices, are judged. If people would concern themselves more with what they themselves are doing and drop the judgments of others, they would be much happier.

Gambling – I for one don’t. I also don’t consider it a victimless crime for those that are addicted to it. I also wouldn’t want a casino in my back yard. But if people want to – as far as I’m concerned, have at it.

Prostitution – I think is completely victimless and it should be decriminalized.

Pornography – As far as I know isn’t a crime unless minors are involved. In that case bury the offenders under the jailhouse.

Breaking the speed limit – I don’t feel is victimless at all. Cars are lethal weapons and speeding should be at the violator’s (s’) own risk. Having said that, I almost never drive the speed limit. I love speed and have owned fast cars since I started buying them.

Gun Control – I am pro gun, but I am not in favor of citizens owning military grade weapons.

Prayer in School – Is without a doubt not victimless. It would be a cold day in hell before my child would pray in school.

[charlestudor2005]

Interesting observations, OH, and gave rise to a couple of thoughts:

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Women are hell bent on keeping other women down IMHO. N.O.W. is just being judgmental. I think all the topics that Charles and everyone brought up, just like all vices, are judged. If people would concern themselves more with what they themselves are doing and drop the judgments of others, they would be much happier. I think groups are more judgmental on their own (i.e. women about women). When I was in college, I served on a "student court" that handled student discipline issues. There were two tracks for imposing discipline: student and school (administrators). Invariably, students chose the student track. Invariably, and with few exceptions, they received a harsher punishment than they would have had they chosen the school track.

Gambling – I for one don’t. I also don’t consider it a victimless crime for those that are addicted to it. I also wouldn’t want a casino in my back yard. But if people want to – as far as I’m concerned, have at it. I don't either. All I have to do to cure any temptation is to stand at the roulette table for five minutes and see how long it would take me to lose a $100 chip.

Prostitution – I think is completely victimless and it should be decriminalized. +1

[Guest083011]

prostitution:
Obviously, I enjoy partaking in it.

edited for reference to topic not permitted.

pornography:
Fun at home!!!

[Guest083011]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Breaking the speed limit – I don’t feel is victimless at all. Cars are lethal weapons and speeding should be at the violator’s (s’) own risk. Having said that, I almost never drive the speed limit. I love speed and have owned fast cars since I started buying them.

I luv Olivia.

[Sidewinder]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Gun Control – I am pro gun, but I am not in favor of citizens owning military grade weapons.

The problem here is that the 2nd Amendment specifically allows precisely that, but you have to look really closely to realize it.

The privateers, who operated during the Revolution under letters of marque and reprisal, owned their warships, and all their cannon, outright.

The cannon used by the Colonial militia, in the early days of the Revolution, were privately owned guns.

NEVER forget: the 2nd Amendment was never about "hunting" weapons, or "sport", or "collectibles". It was about putting real weapons in the hands of real citizens, so that when and if it AGAIN became necessary for the people to throw off the yoke of tyranny, they would have the weapons to do it. The gun-grabbers REALLY wish this aspect of American History would just go away.

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Women are hell bent on keeping other women down IMHO. N.O.W. is just being judgmental. I think all the topics that Charles and everyone brought up, just like all vices, are judged. If people would concern themselves more with what they themselves are doing and drop the judgments of others, they would be much happier.

Gambling – I for one don’t. I also don’t consider it a victimless crime for those that are addicted to it. I also wouldn’t want a casino in my back yard. But if people want to – as far as I’m concerned, have at it.

Prostitution – I think is completely victimless and it should be decriminalized.

Pornography – As far as I know isn’t a crime unless minors are involved. In that case bury the offenders under the jailhouse.

Breaking the speed limit – I don’t feel is victimless at all. Cars are lethal weapons and speeding should be at the violator’s (s’) own risk. Having said that, I almost never drive the speed limit. I love speed and have owned fast cars since I started buying them.

Gun Control – I am pro gun, but I am not in favor of citizens owning military grade weapons.

Prayer in School – Is without a doubt not victimless. It would be a cold day in hell before my child would pray in school.

Interesting. Kind of a contrdiction if you ask me. What about people addicted to sex? Surely prostitutes enable many of them. I think addiction to anything is a bitch. But should we outlaw something because a small minority of the populace will be addicted to it? I say no.

Re: CT's list - I agree - I thought with the exception of access to or involvement of minors, porn was legal at least in most jusridictions.

As an aside, regarding gambling, I find it sad and ironic that in many areas the only legal gambling is run by the state (lotto, keno, pull tabs, scratch cards) or church/non-profits (bingo, wagering at festivals)

[Iaintliein]

First, I think it's pretty clear that none of the so called "social issues" which includes all of the "victimless crimes" Charles listed are any of the federal government's business. While I personally oppose laws against any of these, at any level, the fight needs to be at the state and local level as per the tenth amendment.

As for the praying and spraying (as in full auto weapons). The term "arms" was used at the time of the Constitution's writing to mean any and all weapons commonly carried by an infantryman. Crew served weapons such as cannon, were and are referred to as "ordinance".

In this regard I must oppose the lovely Olivia's view. The second amendment actually is geared toward the people having military grade weapons (at least those that can be carried (bore) and used by individual citizens). Had they meant to limit the people to lessor weapons, I think they would have specified it. It can be argued that the difference between civilian and military "arms" was bigger then, than it is now.

Sure a 30 rd magazine is an advantage compared to a hunting rifle with 10 rounds. But it's no where near the advantage a bayonet was at the time the Constitution was drafted. If, after each man fires his one shot, one is left holding a six foot club while the other is holding a six foot club with a two foot knife on the end of it. . . well, it's a much bigger deal than reloading more often. As for full auto, I don't think that's an advantage in a shoulder fired rifle due to accuracy concerns.

[Whirlaway]

WTF; stop being such a true blue liberal........if you don't want to pray you don't have to... I didn't say mandatory prayer for every body....right now its against the law in many school districts to even wear a religious symbol like a cross.................

Originally Posted by WTF

I don't wanna have to pray in school or listen to a bunch of folks doing it during school.

Isn't that what that tax exempt church is for?

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

Interesting. Kind of a contrdiction if you ask me. What about people addicted to sex? Surely prostitutes enable many of them. I think addiction to anything is a bitch. But should we outlaw something because a small minority of the populace will be addicted to it? I say no. Agreed. Then it becomes a "where do we stop" kind of argument. Food for obese people? Something else for the O/C folks? Shoes for the shoeless? Cigarettes?

As an aside, regarding gambling, I find it sad and ironic that in many areas the only legal gambling is run by the state (lotto, keno, pull tabs, scratch cards) or church/non-profits (bingo, wagering at festivals) Don't leave out the native american tribal casinos.

.