Sober Healthcare Discussion

[lacrew_2000]

Well, I just read a report at the place I work at about the immediate impacts of the healthcare bill. BCBS of Kansas has put our company on notice that our rates will increase significantly, because of two provisions which kick in next year:

1. BCBS must insure children up to 26 years old

2. BCBS can no longer impose a lifetime limit on benefit

I don't mind the second one. When you buy insurance, you are supposed to be paying for BCBS to take on your risk. If you get cancer and need crazy expensive treatment, well that's what you've been paying insurance for.....but we are going to pay for it, for sure.

The first one...well I have problems with it. 26 y/o? And still on their parent's insurance? You can't keep a 26 y/o child on most auto insurance policies for sure. I know they are low risk, and not that expensive as insurance goes, but it will cost more....and I really don't think its right.

This is the year one impact. I'm giving it three years before my employer says screw it, and pays the fine, to cut us loose to the public system.

[BiggestBest]

Is it only children up to 26 who are in still in college? It would make sense to do that.

And to think, in some cultures, you become an adult at age 13...

[HeyMikie]

I believe the bill no longer has the college/school requirement. It is an attempt to address the high unemployment / low insured rate of this age group.

[vitokc]

My company covers dependent children up to 23. That seems more reasonable than
26 since they are usually done with school by then. By 26 many kids have their own kids. I know cause I see them at the store with grandma and grandpa sharing their food stamps, which now look like a credit or debit card. This is just an extension of the entitlement mindset that exists in this country.

[lacrew_2000]

There is no longer a requirement to be in school. Up until 2013, our company can at least ask for a statement swearing that the child would not otherwise be insured at their own work. After that, nope. So jr. may have a full time job, with health benefits available. But, rather than pay premiums on his own plan, he can stick with mom's for free...and mom's co-workers get to foot the bill.

We have alot of young people where I work..18, 19 y/o...who are now going to be paying for insurance for 26 y/o, who may have insurance available, but choose not to take it.

Our plan currently uses 23 as the limit, for kids still in school, and 18 for kids not in school. I thought 23 was too high myself. Alot of 'adulthood' happens at 18...courts try you as an adult, get to vote, get to join military...so 18 has always seemed more appropriate to me. But, our company made the decision to use 23 as the limit - so I live with it. Now they no longer have the ability to make that decision on their own.

These are only the year one changes. If you're on BCBS, your company is likely going through similar negotiations with them right now.

For those who supported the healthcare bill, because some people can't afford insurance, let me run this by you...

The increase in premiums will surely be larger than next year's raises...effectively reducing the wages for half of our company (and that's before inflation). What if the higher paid half of the company pays all of the premium increase, so the lower paid half of the company doesn't have to. Sure, its not fair, but the wealthier employees should be able to absorb the cost more easily than the lower paid ones...which is the spirit of the entire bill.

We actually had somebody ask this at a meeting we had about our projected increases. He was given a quick 'no'.

[dirty dog]

CHANGE aint it great!!!!!!

[Guest030911]

What impact will improved availability of healthcare have on the hobby?

[Guest052813-01]

This is why those of you who oppose this health care fiasco need to go to the polls and elect Senators and Representatives who are in the GOP. Wresting control of Congress is the first step in rescinding this madness. Second is getting rid of the Bamster in 2012, along with getting a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate in 2012. It's a longshot, and it requires the electorate to have a long-term memory instead of the normal short-term memory, but we can't affect the right kind of change unless we try.

Fuck you, Obama.

[lacrew_2000]

Fritz, I believe the bill has been designed to go in force incrementally...so people won't know how bad it is until its too late...the old boiling a frog scenario. I only wish the GOP has the gonads to defund and dismantle this...but I'm watching the court case in Florida as our best hope.

[Omahan]

If the idea is to insure your kids while they are in college then 26 is too old. Out of high schhool by 18 and out of college by 22. That is very easy to do if they just go to class every day it's scheduled and do a reasonable amount of homework. If they won't put forth that much effort they should be on their own.

[kcbigpapa]

Originally Posted by Omahan

If the idea is to insure your kids while they are in college then 26 is too old. Out of high schhool by 18 and out of college by 22. That is very easy to do if they just go to class every day it's scheduled and do a reasonable amount of homework. If they won't put forth that much effort they should be on their own.

If they go for a Masters, JD, or MD, then I don't have a problem with extending coverage. Many schools encourage student to NOT work when obtaining JD's and MD's. Hard to get coverage if they don't work. Like Crew mentioned, this is a low-risk age group and shouldn't cost the the insurance companies much.

[Adrielle]

I have my own insurance, so this is a moot point for me, but I think in the case of extending insurance longer you guys would feel differently if you were a college/grad student unable to afford individual insurance.

And I say this only in reference to being a student and being allowed on your parents insurance. Since I'm not working a full time square job, I have no experience trying to afford insurance with an entry level job fresh out of school.

You can't say, well all college students are graduated by 22 so they should get their own insurance. Most college students don't graduate in 4 years. According to USA Today only 53% of students graduate in 6. And that's not even including graduate school. I know many people who go straight from their undergrad to their Masters. If an 18 yr old graduates, takes 5 years to get their BS, that makes him 23. It takes him another 2 years going to school full time to get his Masters, making him 25. Extending the age limit to 26 no longer seems all that ridiculous.

I'm 23 and haven't finished my BA yet. So, if I needed an MRI but had no insurance, would I bankrupt myself to get it? Hell no. I'd rather be able to eat and afford to pay my rent, and I'd just cross my fingers and hope that the problem goes away. Which sadly, is what many college students I know that don't have insurance do when they get sick.

I know plenty of students who would like nothing more to have insurance, but after feeding themselves with ramen everyday are unable to afford it. The clinic at my school, luckily, is very well stocked and able to handle most medical issues, including rehab. Students don't use the services as often as they should because the cost is still high to them, but it's a start. But at smaller schools, where they only have 1 nurse practitioner on duty and are unequipped to handle anything serious, students are out of luck.

You guys won't agree with me, I'm sure. Because all most of you care about is the amount of money coming out of your pockets or the fact that Obama is associated with it. But extending the age limit to 26 is benefiting more people then you can imagine, and they're not all lazy young adults who don't have a job and sleep on their parents couch.

[vitokc]

If one makes a choice to go to school full time, be unemployed, live with mom & dad,
that is their choice. Others should not be expected to pick up the tab for health
insurance. There are many adults working full time, carrying a full load of coursework,
and still providing for their family. Whether this was Obamas or anyone elses idea, it stinks, in my opinion. Btw, I was 35 when I got my bachelors. Used my GI bill benefits I earned by serving my country. So I can appreciate the sacrifice one makes by earning a degree while working full time.

[lacrew_2000]

Believe it or not, every person on this board was 18 once...and they probably didn't have much money.

Now I'm going to say something that gets me in trouble:

Nobody deserves free healthcare.

It gets me in trouble, I know. I have had this discussion with several people I know. People who drive a newer car than me (and usually two), who have a fancier tv than I do, who pay for a cell phone (I don't), who go on vacation at least once a year (I don't), who pay for cable tv (I don't), complete with premium channels, who eat out for lunch every day (I don't) tell me that they can't afford health insurance....and all I care about is the money coming out of my pocket, when I protest against the healthcare plan (because I'm the dumbass who pays $3,000 a year for healthcare instead of cable tv, etc. etc.)

What they really mean to say is, I don't want to have to keep driving an older car, give up my cell phone, give up cable tv, give up internet, quit going out to eat, or quit going to school, just to pay for my healthcare...because somebody else should pick up that tab (read dumbasses like me)

Its a matter of priorities.

When I was 18, I looked around, and nobody felt like giving me anything, whodathunkit...so I joined the Army. It was tough. It consumed 9 years of my life. But I managed to find a way to help myself. I think most people on the boards fall into that category.

There is a difference between people who genuinely are destitute, and people who have prioritized healthcare out of their lives.

Now I am going to let some people in on a secret: The college student eating ramen, who doesn't think he can afford health insurance...he will have to pay for health insurance under the Obama plan.

Thats right. Before Obama gives you free insurance, he is going to make you pay for it.

It kicks in for real in 2016. If the cost of insurance would be less than 8% of income, and you don't purchase it, you pay a penalty. Thats right, part of the ramen fund gets confiscated by uncle sam. It will be $695 a year, or 2.5% of income, whichever is higher. So if you make more than $540 a week, you'll pay the full $695.

Now thats just a penalty, that doesn't get you insured.

If you make over 133% of the poverty level, you'll have to buy it yourself. So, lets say you make 133% of the poverty level - $14,844. You have to buy your own insurance. You probably can't afford it...so you pay the fine...or $371 per year right out of the ramen fund.

Remember, that's just the penalty you pay. You still don't have insurance. If you don't want to pay the fine, you have to shop at the health exchange. I got quotes for a healthy, non tobacco using, 19 y/o college student. One company had 69 plans!?!?...so this won't be confusing, now will it. Its hard to compare, but most plans ran $120 a month, but if you are willing to have a ridiculous deductable, you could get it for $80.

So, if you make $14,844 a month, rather than pay the fine, which gets you nothing, you can pay $960 a year for health insuarance. Thats less than the 8% threshold, btw, so if you chose not to buy this 'available' insurance, you'll pay the fine.

So there you have it, starting in 2016, a starving college student will get health insurance under Obamacare. Yeah!! He only has to pay $960 a year to get this freebie...and pay $5,000 deductible and 25% copay after that.

Or, if you aren't very interested in insurance...if your priorities cause you to buy cable tv instead, you can fork out $371, and get nuttin in return.

Wow, this free healthcare is great right? Wonder why this all kicks in in 2016, instead of say...now? Not really.

Now back to the 26 y/o getting insurance. Will that help the generationally poor. People who are 18-26 y/o, but have parents who don't have full time work or insurance? Nope. Or people who just plain don't have parents when they are 18? Nope. In fact, if you're 18, just out of high school, and working part time making more than $285 a week, you get to participate in the fines and/or purchase of insurance.

Who does it help? Largely middle class 20 somethings, whose parents have full time work, and may be capable of helping them financially in other ways already. Yep, those guys can hang out until they are 26 years old, and not personally pay a dime. No penalty. No cost for individual insurance.

Doesn't seem fair or right to me. Seems like people who start life a few feet behind the start line are gonna get tripped halfway through the race, and pushed farther behind.

Thats just me though.

[Adrielle]

Did I say that anyone deserves completely free health care? No.

What I did say is that I think it's a damn good thing to extend the age limit to 26, provided that the person is in college. To be on a family health plan, it costs money. I'm not talking about free insurance to everyone, I'm talking about a student being able to be covered on their parents plan until they finish school.

I've been a full time student and worked 2 part time jobs equaling about 35 hrs a week total before. After about 2 months I was so run down that I had to quit one. And even though I was working all those hours, and living in a dirt cheap home with multiple roommates, there is no way I would have been able to afford health insurance. I had food, books, what part of my tuition I could pay, utilities, gas, regular toll charges to get to work, rent, and dues for some campus clubs I was a member of to boost my curriculum vitae to pay for before I would even be able to consider paying for insurance.

More power to the people who work full time and can take 16 hrs a semester. But it's not a realistic option for most students, when many classes aren't offered online or in the evenings, making it conducive to having a full time job.

Do I wish more students would get jobs? Hell yes, because I'm tired of seeing so many spoiled sorority girls on campus carrying Gucci bags that their parents bought them. It'd be nice if every student was required to have some sort of job, even a work study position on campus would be fantastic. But thinking that all students can carry a full course load and a full time job is not realistic. And even further, thinking that any full time student with a job also has enough money in the bank to afford health insurance, is also not reasonable.

The rule of thumb is that a student should study 2 to 3 hours for every credit hour they take to ensure good grades. So I student taking 16 hours should study an additional 48 hours a week. So 64 hours a week of school, plus an additional 40 a week for work. 104 hours a week, not including any sort of free time, commuting time, sleep, or anything not involving work or school. That's incredibly difficult for me even to imagine living like for 4 years, let alone actually doing it. Like I said, because it's suitable for some adults, doesn't mean it's a realistic option for all students.