the battle of Stalingrad

[VitaMan]

Before the battle in WW2, Stalingrad had a civilian population of 500,000. After the battle, 1,500. Hundreds of thousands of dead soldiers stacked like firewood.

Without this particular battle and sacrifice, Germany would likely have conquered the world.

How anyone could forgive and forget what the Germans did in WW2 is one of life's great mysteries.

[kehaar]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

Before the battle in WW2, Stalingrad had a civilian population of 500,000. After the battle, 1,500. Hundreds of thousands of dead soldiers stacked like firewood.

Without this particular battle and sacrifice, Germany would likely have conquered the world.

How anyone could forgive and forget what the Germans did in WW2 is one of life's great mysteries.

How anyone could forgive and forget what the Socialists/Communists did in the last century is one of life's great mysteries. The Continental Europeans(not just the Germans) behavior in the last century is beyond comprehension, and the left's lust for that path defies logic. Note the support for the Chavista's.

The German behavior in WWII was a natural outcome of the left's paradigm.

[VitaMan]

Of course there is the Americans and the Indians

[tbone2u]

OP....if you would take the time to read about history maybe you would understand it more.
It's nothing like getting cars unloaded off of a car hauler.

[BigLouie]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

Before the battle in WW2, Stalingrad had a civilian population of 500,000. After the battle, 1,500. Hundreds of thousands of dead soldiers stacked like firewood.

Without this particular battle and sacrifice, Germany would likely have conquered the world.

Germany would not have conquered the world. Their army was full of meth addicts. Their weapons were overly complex. The US won because of better management skills, better manufacturing

[VitaMan]

Originally Posted by tbone2u

OP....if you would take the time to read about history maybe you would understand it more.
It's nothing like getting cars unloaded off of a car hauler.

Many historians view Stalingrad as the pivotal battle of WW2. If the Germans had success there, they would have been able to take the oil fields in the south to continue fueling their mechanized army, as well as overrun Moscow in the spring. Instead, their entire 6th army of 300,000 soldiers was wiped out, and the first major German defeat. From that point on, it was realized that Germany could be beaten.

Previous to this, over 3.5 million Russian soldiers had been captured.

You are wise, and have a lot of free time to do postings, perhaps you could explain WW2 to us. But almost all of your postings are robotic, one line sarcasms.

[bigwill832]

Bad timing was also a major factor. The Germans were not expecting nor prepared for such a harsh winter. Their troops were not properly equipped and their tanks literally froze. The Russians lived in that type of harsh reality and were prepared.

[pyramider]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

Of course there is the Americans and the Indians

To the victors go the spoils ...

[DEAR_JOHN]

I didn't see anything about 6 million Jews being massacred. That's why the Israeli military is so good, because they will die with a rifle in their hands before their people would live through what their ancestors lived through.

[VitaMan]

That is another reason why it is hard to explain how the world ever embraced Germany back into the world of nations. If they had successfully developed the atom bomb, they would have used it. And they were not far off from developing one.

[Don T. Lukbak]

Uncle Joe inadvertently won that battle in 1925 when he renamed Tsaritsyn after hisownself, thereby baiting Hitler into his catastrophic detour in '42. Until Hitler committed 6th Army to it, Stalingrad had no strategic value for either side. The loss of the entire 6th Army was as consequential for the Nazis as the Battle of Midway was for the Japs.

Stalingrad must have been a nightmare for the grunts on both sides...poor bastards in Red Army punitive battalions ordered into the teeth of Nazi fire with machine guns aimed at their backs by the NKVD Rifle Division, and poor bastards in Wehrmacht unlucky enough to survive the battle marched off to perish in Siberia. Like Bloods vs Crips, the worst part is that both sides didn't lose.

Hitler promoted Paulus to Field Marshal 2 hours before surrender, expecting him to kill himself. Instead, Paulus fulfilled the Communist requirement of self-criticism, became an acolyte of Stalin and then an apparatchik in East German puppet government.

Germany has paid a steep price, justifiably, for its criminal government 1933-1945. Germans who hadn't even been born then continue to catch a ration of hell just for being German. As a nation, it has been held to account. The Soviet Union, however, had even more blood on its hands...much more...than did the Nazis, but is still adulated in some "progressive" circles. I haven't heard Bernie Sanders say one negative thing about his Heaven on Earth workers' paradise. Anyone?

[VitaMan]

Not to mention it was dead of winter, something like 2 degrees. Those guys trying to fix their tanks - try working on your car on Monday, and then after that, you get to go crawl into your foxhole.

[htownhammer]

Originally Posted by BigLouie

The US won because of better management skills, better manufacturing

The Soviets played a huge role in the defeat of Nazi Germany.

[Don T. Lukbak]

Originally Posted by htownhammer

The Soviets played a huge role in the defeat of Nazi Germany.

The Russo-German War of 1941-1945 was the central struggle of WWII. Conflict in Western Europe, the Balkans, North Africa, and Italy was always strategically designed with regard to that central struggle. Even before Barbarossa, 22 June 1941.

Fun facts:

The Soviet chief political officer at Stalingrad: Nikita Kruschev; his responsibility was to assure the Red Army members thought correctly, with no taint of counter-revolutionary ideation.

The Soviet Dictator responsible for re-naming Stalingrad to Volgograd: Nikita Kruschev

Mamayev Kurgan was the strategic high ground; it changed hands multiple times. Today it is the site of the tallest statue of a female figure (as of 2016, at least) in the world, "Motherland Calls", and seems to be the Soviet, now Russian, equivalent of Arlington National Cemetery.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

Before the battle in WW2, Stalingrad had a civilian population of 500,000. After the battle, 1,500. Hundreds of thousands of dead soldiers stacked like firewood.

Without this particular battle and sacrifice, Germany would likely have conquered the world.

How anyone could forgive and forget what the Germans did in WW2 is one of life's great mysteries.

Stalingrad was a huge turning point but to say it was the deciding factor isn't accurate. there were several other events later that also compounded the eventual defeat of the Axis powers. The battle of Kursk was the true beginning of Germany's full retreat out of Russia.

the high command wanted to bypass and cut off all of these cities, as noted there wasn't much military presence in Stalingrad. Moscow of course is the capitol but in a nation as vast as Russia just taking Moscow isn't enough.

due to Hitler's interference and incompetence and likely insanity by then, he overruled his generals and ordered all 3 cities to be put under siege. a huge military mistake as history tells us. just ask that french guy .. Napoleon.

Had Hitler stuck to the plan, the German army would have used Blitzkrieg tactics to push into southeast Russia where the Japanese army would then link up from eastern China which they occupied. Hitler's ego as usual caused him to make a mistake yet again in military strategy

Originally Posted by BigLouie

Germany would not have conquered the world. Their army was full of meth addicts. Their weapons were overly complex. The US won because of better management skills, better manufacturing

perhaps. perhaps not. there were 3 very real possibilities at the onset of WW2 especially prior to Pearl Harbor with the US until then officially neutral. even after Pearl Harbor, there was a possibility of victory for the Axis powers. there was also the possibility of a stalemate. or losing. Victory was not assured even with the US fully committed.

Originally Posted by VitaMan

That is another reason why it is hard to explain how the world ever embraced Germany back into the world of nations. If they had successfully developed the atom bomb, they would have used it. And they were not far off from developing one.

so you are saying that even today, Germany is isolated and shunned? Ummm .. i don't think so. that Germany instigated WW2 is a fact. in the scope of history, is that any different from Genghis Khan? or the Roman Empire? the British Empire?

Germany certainly had the scientists to develop the atomic bomb. and they would have eventually if not for the Allies knowingly attacking their facilities over the course of the war. all the while, the US led Allied effort was untouched by the war with all the vast resources of America to use.

and speaking of the Atomic bomb, even today the US's use of it remains controversial to say the least. i generally agree with the decision to use it. twice. if Truman had real vision of the future Stalin was writing at the end of WW2 he should have threatened to nuke Moscow if Stalin didn't pull back. and do it if Stalin balked.

Imagine a Europe today where the Cold War never happened.

Originally Posted by htownhammer

The Soviets played a huge role in the defeat of Nazi Germany.

they did their part of it. just because they took the most losses doesn't make Russia the deciding factor. the true engine of the Allied victory was of course the United States. WW1 wasn't really a World War, it was a EuroWar. WW2 did touch all of the world in scope. the US has a huge strategic location factor .. two oceans. Europe can be in flames and North America is untouched.

so from this position, the US supplied all our allies including Russia, fully committed the US Army and Atlantic fleet to Europe and took on Japan with the Pacific fleet and Marines. the US was a war engine the Allies rode to victory.