City pays

[DTorrchia]

Who says Crime doesn't pay?
http://www.kvue.com/news/Council-vot...128392368.html

Nathanial Sanders, one of those shot and to whose family the City agreed to pay $750,000, had been arrested for among other things....attacking and robbing a wheelchair bound man at an ATM machine near 6th Street. He'd also been arrested in the past for Weapons violations, probation violations and had a gun on his person the night he was shot. He was listed as a suspect in a jewelry store theft that took place the same night he was shot as well.
Gotta love a city that pays out $750,000 just to "put it behind us".

[WyldemanATX]

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

Who says Crime doesn't pay?
http://www.kvue.com/news/Council-vot...128392368.html

Nathanial Sanders, one of those shot and to whose family the City agreed to pay $750,000, had been arrested for among other things....attacking and robbing a wheelchair bound man at an ATM machine near 6th Street. He'd also been arrested in the past for Weapons violations, probation violations and had a gun on his person the night he was shot. He was listed as a suspect in a jewelry store theft that took place the same night he was shot as well.
Gotta love a city that pays out $750,000 just to "put it behind us".

It is not his fault he is a victim of society....(this is called sarcasm)

Attacked a guy in a wheelchair. What a piece of shit.

[Booth]

I suppose y'all think liberals are happy about this. Not everything comes down to liberals vs. conservatives. I think this stinks.

[F-Sharp]

Alright, just for kicks I'll bite.

What difference does it make what this kid may or may not have done in the past? What difference does it make that he had a gun on his person? This officer knew none of this when he shot the kid to death. Half the backward-ass hillbilly pickup truck driving morons here in Texas are packing heat. Are only white folks allowed to carry in this state? Are you somehow insinuating that it's ok for police to shoot and kill anyone with a prior criminal record, or anyone who happens to be in the possession of a firearm? Last I heard it's not their job to be shooting and killing civilians who pose no immediate threat to themselves or others.

The officer that shot him was fired over a drunk driving charge seven months after shooting this kid. Who's to say he hadn't been drinking the night of the shooting? Someone too stupid or too careless to know better than to drink and drive is simply not to be trusted and is certainly not someone I want walking around with a badge and loaded weapon.

Mind sharing your source for this wheelchair incident and the kid's prior record? Did a quick search, but I can find no reference to it.

[S O B]

On the same day they paid out, city council gave themselves another raise.

[Booth]

The wheelchair incident was a completely different perpetrator. It occurred on 38th @ I35.

I agree with almost everything F said. I just don't agree with the settlement.

[DTorrchia]

Good grief, I don't mind people having different opinions. It's what makes this place fun. However, let's not completely loose sight of the very BASIC facts in this case.
No, it didn't occur at 38th/IH 35. It occurred downtown and NATHANIAL SANDERS was arrested for it.
http://www.txcn.com/sharedcontent/dw...b.2ca9eee.html

http://tinyurl.com/mqvwv6

Next...to F-Sharp's uninformed comments. The kid wasn't just "packing heat". It has nothing to do with his race. It's the fact that he reached for and attempted to draw and point the gun at the Officer which is when the Officer fired.
As far as what happened to Officer Quintana afterwards? You crack me up. You say on one hand that Nathanial Sanders prior Criminal Record shouldn't matter but what happened to the Officer later should? For the record, the day Quintana picked up that DWI was the same day he had to sit through an EIGHT hour deposition by the Sander's family attorney in regards to the civil lawsuit they were bringing against him and the city. Think that may wind someone up enough to where they go have a few beers after? I'm not saying what he did was right but to compare that to a thug robber? And then to insinuate that he was drunk during the Shooting? That shows your complete IGNORANCE. EVERY SINGLE TIME that an APD officer is involved in a shooting, there is an immediate blood test conducted for drugs and alcohol. It's mandated.
He came back 100% clean. Nice try though F-Sharp.

[nuglet]

I'm sure there are some "honest" cops, but in my life, I haven't met one. Not ONE. And I have met a few.
When I was a kid here in Austin, we used to joke about the whole group. If you knew a thug in high school, it was likely you'd see him a couple of years later, driving a police car, wearing a badge and still throwing his weight around, but with a gun on his hip.

[WyldemanATX]

I would say most cops are honest and a few are dishonest. I do not particularly like the police especially when they give me a speeding ticket. I am always polite with yes sir and no sir to them regardless of how they are towards me. You try having a job that you do not know when you approach someone that they have a gun or not.

[nuglet]

True. The road rules are different than they used to be. It was a simpler time.

[DTorrchia]

Originally Posted by nuglet

I'm sure there are some "honest" cops, but in my life, I haven't met one. Not ONE. And I have met a few.
When I was a kid here in Austin, we used to joke about the whole group. If you knew a thug in high school, it was likely you'd see him a couple of years later, driving a police car, wearing a badge and still throwing his weight around, but with a gun on his hip.

That's a shame. I've met many who were/are great guys. What struck me is your experience about them having been "thugs" in high school.
The urban legend in many communities is the opposite. It's usually thrown around that they were the "weaklings" in High School and were picked on so that they overcompensate by wearing a badge and gun. I've found both analogies to be untrue with most cops I've known. That's just my personal experience. I've certainly known some bad/corrupt ones as well but that goes for every single profession. In the end, I believe they're simply a slice of the population that make up our communities.

[Billy_Saul]

Dash cam of shooting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzOecK1uNUA


Independent report:
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/news/2010...is_5_11_09.pdf

Ultimately it is our finding that significant tactical errors that rose to the level of recklessness were made by the involved officers, and that but for this recklessness the use of deadly physical force might very well have been avoided. While we have also found that the use of deadly physical force by Office Quintana was not justified, as any belief that there was an imminent danger to himself or others was not objectively reasonable, it was ultimately the reckless tactics employed by Officer Quintana in the first place that directly led to his use of deadly force and ultimately the taking of the life of one individual and seriously wounding of another.

Based on Independent analysis, the settlement was not unreasonable. However, if I was a felon, currently committing additional felonies, in violation of my probation, ripped on multiple drugs, suspected in multiple violent robberies within a car associated with those crimes, having a pistol discovered on my person, and beginning to make rapid fleeing actions, I would not be surprised at all if I ended up getting shot upon any police interaction..

[Booth]

Originally Posted by Wyldeman30

I would say most cops are honest and a few are dishonest. I do not particularly like the police especially when they give me a speeding ticket. I am always polite with yes sir and no sir to them regardless of how they are towards me. You try having a job that you do not know when you approach someone that they have a gun or not.

The rare Wyldeman post I can agree with.

[DTorrchia]

Originally Posted by Billy_Saul

Dash cam of shooting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzOecK1uNUA


Independent report:
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/news/2010...is_5_11_09.pdf

Ultimately it is our finding that significant tactical errors that rose to the level of recklessness were made by the involved officers, and that but for this recklessness the use of deadly physical force might very well have been avoided. While we have also found that the use of deadly physical force by Office Quintana was not justified, as any belief that there was an imminent danger to himself or others was not objectively reasonable, it was ultimately the reckless tactics employed by Officer Quintana in the first place that directly led to his use of deadly force and ultimately the taking of the life of one individual and seriously wounding of another.

Based on Independent analysis, the settlement was not unreasonable. However, if I was a felon, currently committing additional felonies, in violation of my probation, ripped on multiple drugs, suspected in multiple violent robberies within a car associated with those crimes, having a pistol discovered on my person, and beginning to make rapid fleeing actions, I would not be surprised at all if I ended up getting shot upon any police interaction..

I had read the report you posted before. It's hard for people to understand when they read a report like this, but things don't always play out quite so neatly and controlled as the report indicates they should have. In any use of force, when you look at the situation after the fact, it's easy to dissect what someone could have done differently.
The report makes clear that Officer Quintana was trying to find and apprehend wanted felons that he had every reason to believe were a menace to the community. Sticking a gun in someone's mouth and making them beg for their life, robbing a man in a wheelchair, actions like that put a criminal in the dangerous category, meaning, you want someone like that off the street as soon as possible.
Would a picture perfect felony stop of this vehicle and it's occupants have prevented this shooting?
Maybe, maybe not. There's nothing to prevent people from running during a felony car stop and Officer Quintana made it clear that based on what these guys were alleged to have done, he didn't want them to get away. That's why he approached and apprehended the driver and that's why he went back to the car to make contact with Sanders.
He felt that if they were asleep, maybe that was their best chance to take them into custody without them escaping. Once the struggle ensued in the car over the gun that Nathanial Sanders had in his waistband, things went downhill from there.
It's true that hindsight is always 20/20. Tactically, things could have been done better. No doubt about it.
Would that have changed the outcome? We'll never know. Should the city pay out $750,000 based on this? I simply don't agree.
If cities and counties start paying out every time an Officer makes a tactical error, the general funds of those cities and counties will soon dry up.
Did Officer Quintana act within the law? Yes he did. A Grand Jury certainly thought so.
Chief Acevedo gave Quintana a 15 day suspension for not turning his lights/camera on.
The rest is certainly open for panels and investigative bodies to come in and pick apart after the fact as this report did.
It wasn't like he was trigger happy. He took the driver into custody without incident before the shooting. But when you're leaning into a car and a suspected robber tries to fight with you over a gun in his waistband, well, like you said Billy Saul, one shouldn't be surprised if you wind up shot.

[F-Sharp]

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

No, it didn't occur at 38th/IH 35. It occurred downtown and NATHANIAL SANDERS was arrested for it.
http://www.txcn.com/sharedcontent/dw....2ca9eee.html.

I hate to burst anyone's bubble with the obvious, but it says here this crime was committed on May 7th, 2009. Nathaniel Sanders was shot and killed by police on May 11th, 2009. Are we to believe he was arrested on a Thursday morning on a felony robbery by assault charge and was back out on the streets by Monday evening when he was shot? It also states that your Nathanial Sanders was 19 years old. The Nathanial Sanders in question was 18 when he was shot. I'm not saying it's the wrong guy for certain. I am saying I have questions.

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

http://tinyurl.com/mqvwv6

I have similar issues here. This completely unofficial site has a "Nathanial Sanders" listed for some arrests and traffic voilations. I've been arrested a few times myself and have had plenty of traffic violations in my lifetime. Does that make me a "thug robber" too? Would it be okay if the police shot and killed me too?

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

Next...to F-Sharp's uninformed comments. The kid wasn't just "packing heat". It has nothing to do with his race. It's the fact that he reached for and attempted to draw and point the gun at the Officer which is when the Officer fired.

Oh did he now? So you were there? Too bad Nathanial isn't alive to speak in his own defense.

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

As far as what happened to Officer Quintana afterwards? You crack me up. You say on one hand that Nathanial Sanders prior Criminal Record shouldn't matter but what happened to the Officer later should?

I didn't make any such statements. Show me the official criminal record of the Nathanial Sanders in question and we'll talk then.

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

Think that may wind someone up enough to where they go have a few beers after? I'm not saying what he did was right but to compare that to a thug robber?

In my eyes it makes Quintana worse. He was an adult police officer and should be held to a higher standard than an 18 year old child. Bet you'd have a very differnt take if Quintana had killed your wife and children while driving drunk. Assuming you have any children of course.

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

And then to insinuate that he was drunk during the Shooting? That shows your complete IGNORANCE. EVERY SINGLE TIME that an APD officer is involved in a shooting, there is an immediate blood test conducted for drugs and alcohol. It's mandated.
He came back 100% clean. Nice try though F-Sharp.

Again, you saw his test results personally? I make no assumptions here.

Sorry, but having had police pull guns on me twice in my lifetime (once when I was 14, and again when I was 18) for absolutely no reason, and having been placed in jail for four days as an adult for a crime I did not commit leaves me very suspicious of police and the system in general. I personally despise people like yourself who somehow have made up your minds that this kid deserved to be shot and killed. Were you there? Did you witness what happened personally? Did you know Nathanial Sanders? He was a fucking kid for Pete's sake. You came to this conculsion based on what? Nothing more than he was a black kid with a record? Shall I pull you some statistics on how many black kids with records there are in this country? Is it okay with you with you if they all get unjustifiably shot and killed by police too?

Police officers have no right to shoot and kill ANY civilians without some immediate threat. I fail to see there was one here, and I don't care if this kid was a "thug robber" or not, he deserved his day in court. We simply don't live in some third world shithole where it's okay for police to be dishing out their own form of justice.