Communities, and Charity!

[69er]

The recent thread here regarding a provider asking for help, as well as an event in my neighborhood with an individual asking for help, has me thinking about charity, and when we should and shouldn't be helping.

Certainly, there are times when strings of bad luck happen to good people, and events entirely beyond their control, force them into situations where they really get stuck. In such situations, I believe we should step in if we are able. I think it is much better for charity to be handled at a local level, rather than get government involved.

My issue, is that in many cases, I think the situation is a result of lots of poor money decisions on the part of the person seeking charity.

Let me give an example. A person in my neighborhood is looking for around $100,000 to cover medical bills. The individual lost their job about 3 months ago, and has no medical coverage. My issue with giving charity in this case, has to do with the fact that the person in question was probably pulling down a 6 figure salary each year. Why did they not have enough money saved to cover expenses for 6 months? Why did they not pay the money to get their medical through their old workplace via COBRA? (From the size, and knowing who the employer is, I know the employer had to offer coverage under COBRA.) Even if they made some really big mistakes, and just failed to do the above, I think they still have the means to bail themselves out. There are two very expensive luxury cars in the garage that are about 4 years old. They could certainly be sold and replaced with less expensive cars, and probably cover $50K minimum right there. I continue to see this family eating out at pricey restaurants, buy the newest cell phones for the kids, etc.

My issue is that it seems all too often, that American's have this view that once they have certain luxuries, that they are then owed the luxuries. People just seem to always expect some one else to bail their butt out of bad situations.

Am I being a "hard ass" here, or is this an all too common occurance in America today?

Now for the even harder questions... Asking everyone, not just providers!

Do you have money to cover 6 months of living expenses? (Including paying for major medical coverage.)

Do you have major medical insurance?

If you don't have one of the above, are all your expenses must have items? (You are making your own meals, don't subscribe to HBO, Cinemax, Have a minimal cable or Sat bill, Spending money on must have clothes only (No expensive purses, shoes, designer jeans/dresses/shirts), you get the idea: You're only spending what must be spent.)

I'll start:

6 months of expenses covered by savings: Yes, actually about a year.
Major medical: Yes, and I am self employed and my business is not yet producing income, and I'm taking no salary.

Expense reduction: I have reduced my expenses since deciding to start my business. Lots of things I've dedcided to put off, or do without for now. I could reduce further, but since I have things fairly well covered in my opinion, I'm not cutting further at this time.

[hd]

My wife and I have our retirement set up and savings to cover if one should loose our job. we each have insurance from work that can pick up the spouse should that be necessary. We are in better shape than many, but I remember when we made much less and lived check to check. Most still do and always will. people have to get their priorities in line and think about their future. Most only worry about today. And no matter what, you'll never change their thinking. people thinking social security is going to carry them comfortably through retirement are in for a big shock.

69er, you're saying what I think everyday when I watch the news about people who are down and out. Your nieghbor is probably one of those who spends every penny they get and don't consider what will happen tomorrow. Well, it's here.

Let me add that I never give money to panhandlers or even charities, I'll give clothing etc. to such places, I do give money and help to animal rescues, (my weakness). But I always figure people who are down and out are smart enough to know we have social services that offer aid to people in need, but not the aid that will make their Mercedes payment!

[Guest022712-3]

1. Do I have 6 months in reserve? I did until recently. Had a tree go through my roof which took a large bite out of my fund. Combine that with a minor medical emergency with one of my kids (and the deductible) and my fund is pretty much tapped. Am working on slowly building it back up.

2. Do I have major medical? Yes, and I pay through the nose for it. I have a blood disorder that I was born with, so coverage is always a PITA. But, I have to have it so that I can make sure I have the treatments I need. Plus, I have children to think about. While I know that I could be shady and put them on Medicaid, I prefer to be above board and pay my taxes and take care of my own.

As for reducing expenses... well, reducing expenses bit me in the ass in one area, the deductible for my roof repair. But, I do watch my expenses. I don't have designer clothing, nor do my kids. I'm fairly sure the most expensive pair of shoes in the entire house cost less than $30. We grocery shop in bulk so that the only things we have to go to the store for are perishables. We don't have cable at all, and we have an inexpensive cell plan for telephone. I drive a small, economical car that is paid off (has needed repairs this year though, yet another bite). Gas is killer for me, as I live outside the city and commute long distances, but I have land with a garden and chickens who give us lots of eggs! My biggest weakness IS the charity cases when they are legitimate. Just this past month I almost didn't have my OWN mortgage because I was helping a young lady and her children who were on the verge of eviction (non provider).

[durango95]

I only help animals and animal rescue groups. The need is so great right now, so many people have lost their jobs and they are having to give up their animals. Plus you read about puppy mills and hoarders that have more animals than they can care for. I also go out and give dog food and things to the homeless people that have animals. Then you have the people that own horses and they cant care for them, it will tear at your heart to visit an animal shelter or rescue group. Please dont forget about the many dogs and cats that need your help. Most dogs and cats are left to abandoned homes and properties and they have no food or water and even more important no human interaction. My dogs are rescue animals, I will never purchase a dog again when there are so many great animals that need our help.

Now I would never put an animal in front of a human and their needs. But please remember our four legged friends and help them in any manner. Visit an animal shelter, bring along a bag of dog food, or treats and just spend a bit of time with the older dogs and cats. I only know one verse, it says:

"A wise man care for the needs of his animals"

[seventonine]

Originally Posted by 69er

...Why did they not have enough money saved to cover expenses for 6 months?....

...There are two very expensive luxury cars in the garage that are about 4 years old. They could certainly be sold and replaced with less expensive cars, and probably cover $50K minimum right there. I continue to see this family eating out at pricey restaurants, buy the newest cell phones for the kids, etc....

I think you summed up the reasons quite well. My guess is either the "Smith's are chasing the Jone's" or no one ever provided proper money management guidance.

In fairness, I have a nicer than average paying job, but I continued to drive my 10 yr old Honda to work while all my buds were spending their earnings on depreciating assets. It hasn't been easy and I've not always stayed the course, but now I am in a position to purchase what I want, when I want.

Beans and rice my friend. And, an attitude that I don't need to outwardly demonstrate to people my financial worth.

And yes, I have medical. I have the equivalent of 1 1/2 years annual salary stashed not including my investments and retirement accounts.

[TexTushHog]

Yes to both.

And all of my employees have very comprehensive medical insurance with low effective deductibles (a $1,000 deductible with me picking up all but the first $200 via a employee reimbursement plan) and a drug card. I pay all the premium for them. Covers their kids, too.

[hotlips_houlihan]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

Yes to both.

And all of my employees have very comprehensive medical insurance with low effective deductibles (a $1,000 deductible with me picking up all but the first $200 via a employee reimbursement plan) and a drug card. I pay all the premium for them. Covers their kids, too.

Dang, can I work for you?

[samantha thom]

Do I have Major Medical Insurance? YES
Life Insurance? YES
Critical Illness Insurance? YES
Full comprehensive auto insurance? YES
Savings for at least 6-months living expenses? YES
Great credit? YES
Retirement savings? YES, still in the accumulation process
Designer clothes or purses? NO, they're not important to me.
Credit card debt? UGH, NO
Shopping addiction? ONLY FOR TENNIS OUTFITS...HEHE

I guess I'm too responsible.

[2long]

69er I'm with you. I could have a really nice car if I did not have medical insurance. So I drive an old car not worth much. I know a few friends who drive flashy new cars and have no medical insurance. I feel no pity for them when they get hit with a big medical bill.

[69er]

I'm heartened to hear that so many out there are responsible! Great, keep up the good word. Be sure to teach the kids about money, starting at an early age. It's important for them to learn lessons like: I spent all my money on candy, so I don't have money for the new XBox game that just came out that I want.

My guess is that we are not hearing from those who don't have the savings and medical, as I know they are here as well.

[ItalianaPrincess]

Yes it baffles me too. Providers make well over twice the normal salary of a civi person. I understand we all have bills, etc. to cover because that is life. Why some ladies do not put back (for a rainy day) completely boggles my mind. Material things are nice, but you will regret them when the day comes that you have a real emergency. If you are throwing your hard earned $ out on boyfriends, pimps, or drugs...I cannot address those types of ladies because I will NEVER UNDERSTAND THAT SH*T!

Ladies, save, sock it back, dig a hole in the ground, do what you've gotta do. Save, save, save. This hobby (and $) will not last forever. If you're going to school, or have another job, that's awesome and keep up the good work & continue towards your goals. Don't depend on people involved in this "fantasy world" to be there to save you when you are REALLY needing help...there will not be the BIG BAILOUT...so Save, save, SAVE.

That way, when you are older & sipping fruity beverages through an umbrella straw on an island somewhere, you will pat yourself on your old arthritis-ridden back and be proud of yourself that you (literally) WORKED YOUR ASS OFF to have a nice life for yourself!

If you are living the provider life and have nothing to show, confuscious say "you are an idiot". And it's extremely hard to feel sorry for people who don't plan ahead or help themselves, when given AMPLE opportunity to do so.


Amen, as I jump off of my soap box now... everyone have a good day & stay naughty!!

[Chevalier]

Originally Posted by 69er

My issue, is that in many cases, I think the situation is a result of lots of poor money decisions on the part of the person seeking charity.

It's difficult to judge based solely on anecdotal evidence of the few situations any of us observe directly. There are a lot of people unemployed or underemployed or earning not much more than minimum wage. They might have been able to save more than they did, but it still might fall far short of emergency costs. In particular, health care costs are extremely high and in some instances not covered by insurance, e.g., pre-existing conditions. The government steps in at times, but it can't cover everything either. I certainly don't deny that there are some abuses, but I'm not sure whether it's "in many cases." Perhaps; perhaps not.

With respect to your questions: I have very good medical insurance, although we set the deductible a bit higher than the most expensive option. I have much more than six months of living expenses set aside; six months' worth is really not very much, particularly when you're getting closer and closer to retirement. If I lost my job tomorrow, we wouldn't even have to cut back much on our spending.

I also contribute a sizeable chunk to various charities, and volunteer with a couple of non-profits. But I generally don't contribute directly to down-on-their-luck individuals.

[hotlips_houlihan]

That is all good and well.....I planned for the future, yadda yadda. But it didn't mean a hoot when something came along and smacked me in the face like an F5 tornado. Rebuilt, got smacked. Rebuilt, got smacked-that's my life. I seem to be on the Murphy's Law end of things every time lol. They say bad shit comes in 3's. I have proof that is a crock of crap. I think mine comes in 9's. Am I done yet?

I have a regular job (that insurance pretty much takes 95% of my paycheck), drive a much older car (16 years old to be exact), haven't shopped in oh probably 15 years, but I don't have a penny to my name. Every time I get on my feet, something worse than the previous hell buries me-and buries me deeper.

Sooner or later I will find a way out of this thing I call the never ending black hole of life. Until then, I can only hope that I can get at least a months worth of expenses. Save up-6 months worth? Yea, I could only wish!

Meg

[seventonine]

Meg, I see your point. We shouldn't create a stereotype that fits everyone's bad luck into the same mold.

However, the info 69er provided didn't include the type of catastrophic scenario you are describing. That would have created a reasonable explanation as to why the neighbor may be having a hard time. On the contrary, the OP suggests that the neighbor isn't adjusting his/her standard of living in spite of the hard luck.

It appears, on the basis of your explanation, that you have adjusted your lifestyle. I'm willing to provide charity to folks that take your approach because they are legitimately trying to dig out of the hole and making the sacrifices necessary to do it.

[69er]

Meg,

I certainly hope you don't feel accused by my thread. Take this quote from my original posting.

Originally Posted by 69er

Certainly, there are times when strings of bad luck happen to good people, and events entirely beyond their control, force them into situations where they really get stuck. In such situations, I believe we should step in if we are able. I think it is much better for charity to be handled at a local level, rather than get government involved.

I've also seen instances, where people are so deep into doing something that doesn't work, that they don't take the time to change what they're doing. As an example, I have some family with a small business, that would make just enough money, that they couldn't really get by. Both the husband and wife are hard working people, but the business consumed them, and was making them less money, than if they got a job working for someone else. It took them 7 years before they decided to shut down the business, and go get jobs. They were happier and had more time after doing so, and are making more money!

I don't know if this fits your situation or not, but is something to think about. If what you are doing, can't pay the bills, perhaps it is time to change what you are doing. If you don't feel your skills are good enough, perhaps it would pay to get further education. There are always options. I know things can be tough at times. I remember when the big decision was could I afford hot dogs to go along with the Mac & Cheese. Sometimes just having a plan and moving toward your goal makes getting by more palatable.