Does this in any way help you understand?

[JD Barleycorn]

It's recess for the Congress. GOP reps are catching some shit from the TEA party and other conservatives. They are being called out for their lack of backbone and inability to take the fight to Obama in the Chicago style.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...s-at-Town-Hall

Maybe this will help you understand there is a difference.

[timpage]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

It's recess for the Congress. GOP reps are catching some shit from the TEA party and other conservatives. They are being called out for their lack of backbone and inability to take the fight to Obama in the Chicago style.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...s-at-Town-Hall

Maybe this will help you understand there is a difference.

No, it doesn't help. It only further confirms ExNyer's original diagnosis of your problem. I like the clown suits in the photo though.

[CJ7]

no difference

[Old-T]

Actually, what it reinforces is that the majority of TP members have lost touch with reality and humanity.

Personally I agree with the starting premise: government is too expensive and too big.

The problem is that the TP approach of "confrontation" which they equate to grid-lock, sequestration (otherwise known as brainless budget cuts instead of thoughtful ones), etc. For the vast part, TP people are those who are currently least dependent upon the government--or at least believe they are. They see grid-lock as a definite inconvenience, but little more--and thus feel it is a worthwhile means to the end of smaller government.

Unfortunately most of them I have talked with are completely oblivious to the breadth of suffering that their approach will cause upon those who are far more vulnerable and far more dependent upon the gov't for literally their safety and life.

Real current example:
--A good friend and single mom of two is about to become homeless and go back on welfare because of the gridlock.
--She has spent the last 3 years trying to put her life together from some poor choices dating back to her crack-head mom tossing her out on the street as a 15 y/o.
--She had gotten sober all on her own. Seeing a psychiatrist for her mental issues--most connected to her own family life when young (passed from mom to aunt to mom to street...)
--Got some education while working a couple jobs. Moved out of a drug infested area to something a little safer for the kids, but 30 min outside of the city.
--She was still working 2 jobs, just managing to stay above water. I got her a car and it was the key to safe (not great by any means) environment for kids, ability to get to her two jobs, and getting off welfare about 2 years ago. With the psych help and meds she was getting better.

Then "sequestration":
--Cut from her psych help
--No more expensive (overpriced) meds that allowed her to be self supporting
--Off her meds led to manic episode led to car accident
--State psych eval said she could only drive if on meds; meds require prescription from psychiatrist; OOPS! sequestration cut her.
--No problem, she can get on a waiting list and get in around November.
--OOPS! Court says get the eval by August or lose the license.
--No license, no job (yes, budget cuts stopped the public transit that was one reason she signed the lease where she did--so she would have a fall back transportation)
--No job, no home for her and the two kids.
--Homeless shelters full.
--So in 6 days she'll be living out of her car (which she can't legally drive until at least November).

But to many TP types this is acceptable collateral damage to fix the budget.

It took us decades to get in this position, and to believe that we can "fix" it with mindless slogans and poorly thought out quick-fixes is stupid. They believe they can break things, hide in their well-stocked bomb shelter for a couple years, and when they come out all will be well. Everyone else can fend for themselves.

[JD Barleycorn]

The Sequestration was Obama's idea before he was against it.

The Tea party is not in favor of gridlock, it is in favor of winning and getting back to a limited government. You don't like confrontation, how do you propose getting someone to change their ways in DC; rational argument and discussion (like on this site). You see how that works. Obama has stated on more than one occassion that he wants to beat or destroy the GOP. He is not in this for philosophical debate and the GOP should not be either. He has broken the law and ignored his constitutional responsibilities.

Sorry about your friend but all this started before the Tea party arrived on the scene.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by Old-T

Actually, what it reinforces is that the majority of TP members have lost touch with reality and humanity.

Personally I agree with the starting premise: government is too expensive and too big.

The problem is that the TP approach of "confrontation" which they equate to grid-lock, sequestration (otherwise known as brainless budget cuts instead of thoughtful ones), etc. For the vast part, TP people are those who are currently least dependent upon the government--or at least believe they are. They see grid-lock as a definite inconvenience, but little more--and thus feel it is a worthwhile means to the end of smaller government.

Unfortunately most of them I have talked with are completely oblivious to the breadth of suffering that their approach will cause upon those who are far more vulnerable and far more dependent upon the gov't for literally their safety and life.

Real current example:
--A good friend and single mom of two is about to become homeless and go back on welfare because of the gridlock.
--She has spent the last 3 years trying to put her life together from some poor choices dating back to her crack-head mom tossing her out on the street as a 15 y/o.
--She had gotten sober all on her own. Seeing a psychiatrist for her mental issues--most connected to her own family life when young (passed from mom to aunt to mom to street...)
--Got some education while working a couple jobs. Moved out of a drug infested area to something a little safer for the kids, but 30 min outside of the city.
--She was still working 2 jobs, just managing to stay above water. I got her a car and it was the key to safe (not great by any means) environment for kids, ability to get to her two jobs, and getting off welfare about 2 years ago. With the psych help and meds she was getting better.

Then "sequestration":
--Cut from her psych help
--No more expensive (overpriced) meds that allowed her to be self supporting
--Off her meds led to manic episode led to car accident
--State psych eval said she could only drive if on meds; meds require prescription from psychiatrist; OOPS! sequestration cut her.
--No problem, she can get on a waiting list and get in around November.
--OOPS! Court says get the eval by August or lose the license.
--No license, no job (yes, budget cuts stopped the public transit that was one reason she signed the lease where she did--so she would have a fall back transportation)
--No job, no home for her and the two kids.
--Homeless shelters full.
--So in 6 days she'll be living out of her car (which she can't legally drive until at least November).

But to many TP types this is acceptable collateral damage to fix the budget.

It took us decades to get in this position, and to believe that we can "fix" it with mindless slogans and poorly thought out quick-fixes is stupid. They believe they can break things, hide in their well-stocked bomb shelter for a couple years, and when they come out all will be well. Everyone else can fend for themselves.

with the deficit on the decline the TP needs to rethink their spending cut mantra ... trying to come up with an actual plan for running the country should keep them busy for a couple of decades .. IF the party lasts that long.

[txrancher1]

The republicans have taken the fight to Obama. They have virtually slowed down the economy with their on again off again threats to close funding. Business and individuals are unsure how to invest. The problem with Obama is that he has let the minority party ACT like a majority. He needs to take a stand and don't compromise. When business stops, banks and wallstreet crashes, people will take notice and finally trash these tea party idiots.

[WTF]

These are the clowns JD wants to run the country?

Holy Fuck, how are they going to do that and continue with their Civil War reenactments?

[JD Barleycorn]

Civil War??? You ARE not too bright.

Ranch Dressing, exactly what has the Tea party, who has about 50 members in the house, done to hurt the economy? Come on, try to put a couple of good words together that accompanied by a thought. What legislation have they passed? What legislation that they stopped with all 50 votes? Be aware that many of our views are shared by the average American including smaller government, less wasteful spending, and more respectful politicians.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Civil War??? You ARE not too bright.

Ranch Dressing, exactly what has the Tea party, who has about 50 members in the house, done to hurt the economy? Come on, try to put a couple of good words together that accompanied by a thought. What legislation have they passed? What legislation that they stopped with all 50 votes? Be aware that many of our views are shared by the average American including smaller government, less wasteful spending, and more respectful politicians.

Yea Civil War. That is WTF southern Tea Turds like to do for fun.

You are the one not to bright, I asked are these the nuts you want to run the country? Notice, the question mark and the 'you want'.

[Old-T]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

The Sequestration was Obama's idea before he was against it.

Regardless of whose idea it was originally, both sides bought into the stupidity that is sequestration.

The Tea party is not in favor of gridlock, it is in favor of winning and getting back to a limited government.

Of course they are not in favor of gridlock, but they see it as not only a legitimate tool, but the tactic that they have adopted as their best chance of "winning". And "winning" is absolutely what they are about. My whole point is that they really don't care who gets seriously hurt along the way. To them it really is a game in the sense that they do not acknowledge that real people who have tried to live by the rules as they have been are getting their lives ruined to achieve this "victory". I am not necessarily against the TP's stated goals (at least a lot of them), but I am very much opposed to their disregard for other people paying the price along the way.

You don't like confrontation, how do you propose getting someone to change their ways in DC; rational argument and discussion (like on this site). You see how that works. Obama has stated on more than one occassion that he wants to beat or destroy the GOP.

He doesn't really have to--the TP is doing it for him.

He is not in this for philosophical debate and the GOP should not be either. He has broken the law and ignored his constitutional responsibilities.

When confrontation turns into obstructionism--which it has--then it is wrong. Both sides have forgotten that the purpose of government is not to "win".

Sorry about your friend but all this started before the Tea party arrived on the scene.

Not really. Yes, the roots of her problems go back pre-TP, but the real issue is someone who has tried to do everything "society" and the legal rules told her she should do--and now the rules abruptly change. They become completely Catch-22, and she gets categorized as "a necessary casualty for the better good of society". And THAT happened in this last 18 months of TP fueled gridlock.

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

What legislation have they passed?

None. That is the problem.

What legislation that they stopped with all 50 votes?

Plenty. Votes aren't even happening, and they are a major reason.

Again, the problem is not the goals, it is their irresponsible tactics.

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by WTF

These are the clowns JD wants to run the country?

Holy Fuck, how are they going to do that and continue with their Civil War reenactments?

The tea party has convinced people to come out of their double wides dressed like Ben Franklin shouting " Don't tax the rich" Louis Black

[Jackie S]

Tip O'neal said that all politics is local.

That is why the Tea Party will allow the GOP to retain the house, and possibly take the Senate.

One big factor is all of those young people who voted Democrat in the 2012 elections will realize that they will now have to buy health insurance that they feel like they do not need, and do not want.

[JD Barleycorn]

I guess I need to point out the obvious to an idiot. There is a difference between the REVOLUTIONARY WAR and the Civil War....except maybe in Texas. Maybe in Texas they think of the Civil War as the Second Revolutionary War which means that WTF is thinking like a nut.

The Tea Party is about intelligent government spending. This government is, and has, wasted billions of dollars every year. I am sure that everyone has seen the pro-Obamacare commerical on tv about getting rid of the fraud and waste. Think about that. This group did not find it necessary to find fraud and waste until Obamacare came along. This is the crux of the matter. People not doing the common sense things because it has not been a matter of importance.

[Old-T]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

Tip O'neal said that all politics is local.

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

This group did not find it necessary to find fraud and waste until Obamacare came along. This is the crux of the matter. People not doing the common sense things because it has not been a matter of importance.

No, the crux of the problem is that pork in your district is not pork if it's moved into my district. And that view doesn't matter what district you are talking about.