Welcome to ECCIE, become a part of the fastest growing adult community. Take a minute & sign up!

Welcome to ECCIE - Sign up today!

Become a part of one of the fastest growing adult communities online. We have something for you, whether you’re a male member seeking out new friends or a new lady on the scene looking to take advantage of our many opportunities to network, make new friends, or connect with people. Join today & take part in lively discussions, take advantage of all the great features that attract hundreds of new daily members!

Go Premium

Go Back   ECCIE Worldwide > Texas > Houston > The Sandbox - Houston
test
The Sandbox - Houston The Sandbox is a collection of off-topic discussions. Humorous threads, Sports talk, and a wide variety of other topics can be found here. If it's NOT an adult-themed topic, then it belongs here

Most Favorited Images
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
Most Liked Images
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
Top Reviewers
cockalatte 646
MoneyManMatt 490
Still Looking 399
samcruz 399
Jon Bon 396
Harley Diablo 377
honest_abe 362
DFW_Ladies_Man 313
Chung Tran 288
lupegarland 287
nicemusic 285
You&Me 281
Starscream66 278
George Spelvin 265
sharkman29 255
Top Posters
DallasRain70793
biomed163220
Yssup Rider60924
gman4453294
LexusLover51038
offshoredrilling48646
WTF48267
pyramider46370
bambino42569
CryptKicker37215
The_Waco_Kid36980
Mokoa36496
Chung Tran36100
Still Looking35944
Mojojo33117

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-08-2015, 06:43 AM   #1
Oralist
Premium Access
 
Oralist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 13, 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,498
Encounters: 128
Default Mass Shootings and Gun Control

Being a Republocrat, This makes more sense than anything else I've read on the subject.

Guns, Congress and Murphy’s Law

Matt Bai

October 8, 2015





Rep. Tim Murphy, R-Pa. speaking on Capitol Hill earlier this year. He is the author of a bill that addresses the mental health issues he believes are central to the mass shootings crisis. (Photo: Andrew Harnik/AP)
Chances are you’d never heard of Tim Murphy before last week, even if you follow politics pretty closely. Or maybe you just couldn’t keep him straight among the other Murphys in Congress. (There are three at the moment, including a senator from Connecticut.)
Suddenly, though, this Murphy, a Republican congressman from the Pittsburgh area, is on virtually every network. Reporters are lighting up the switchboard at his cramped office in the Rayburn Building, while presidential candidates line up to invoke his name — all because Tim Murphy has devoted the past few years of his life to writing an arcane, 153-page bill that’s gone exactly nowhere in Congress and may well die there.
It’s a story that says a lot about what’s wrong with our politics right now. You might call it Washington’s version of Murphy’s Law: Anytime politicians can choose a simple worldview over a complex solution, they will.
The issue here is gun violence. After another twisted, horrific mass shooting last week, this time in Oregon, Democratic leaders — led by President Obama and the party’s most likely nominee, Hillary Clinton — immediately reached for their dusty policy shelves and pulled down a bunch of longstanding proposals aimed at gun traffickers and criminals. These include cracking down on dealers at gun shows, banning high-capacity ammunition clips and revoking the protection of gun makers from liability suits.
I could make a persuasive case for most of these ideas (particularly the limit on ammunition), except that, taken together, they wouldn’t do very much to prevent the kind of shooting we saw in Roseburg — or in Newtown, or Tucson, or in name-your-blood-soaked-town. This Chris Harper-Mercer didn’t buy his guns at unregulated gun shows, nor did he spray large quantities of bullets indiscriminately.
The Democratic response brings to mind the memorable words of Rahm Emanuel, who, as White House chief of staff during the worst of the financial crisis, remarked that you should never let a good crisis go to waste. The underlying issue, as most urban Democrats see it, is the American gun culture itself, and shootings like the one in Oregon present an opening to press the larger case.
Then you have these Republican leaders — you know, in the Lord of the Flies sense of the word — whose responses mostly range somewhere between philosophical and callous. Jeb Bush despairs, clumsily, that people do crazy stuff and you can’t always stop them, while Ben Carson says it actually couldn’t happen to him because he’d swat the gun away and do some kind of ninja thing. Imagine being the grieving parent who had to hear that.

Republicans in Congress and on the campaign trail uniformly reject any problem with the guns themselves and point, instead, to some vague and ethereal concept of “mental illness” in the society. The implication being that even if you could wave a magic wand and disappear all of the 300 million-odd guns in the country tomorrow, tormented 20-somethings would still be bursting into classrooms armed with Ginsu knives or cat-o’-nine-tails.
I kind of doubt it.
The truth, of course, is that these kinds of shootings have nothing to do with the firearms enthusiasts you find at gun shows, or the millions of Americans who get treatment for some form of mental illness and pose a danger to no one. What’s at issue in these isolated cases is how to keep guns away from a very small number of profoundly sick individuals (and in some cases from the parents who, for reasons I find impossible to fathom, actually encourage their disturbed kids to use firearms, as happened in Newtown and Roseburg).
This is where Murphy, a seventh-term congressman and clinical psychologist of 40 years, comes in. As a commander in the Navy Reserve, he still treats traumatized soldiers at Bethesda Naval Hospital.
After the shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012, Murphy, who leads a subcommittee on government oversight and investigations, asked the Republican leadership if he could look into government programs that are supposed to address the most severe and violent kinds of mental illness. His investigation led him to write the Helping Families in Mental Health Crisis Act, known familiarly in the Capitol by its bill number, 2646.
Murphy’s sprawling bill would amend the existing federal privacy laws, so that in cases of serious mental illness (and only in those cases), a consulting doctor would have the ability to call the patient’s parent or caregiver and share information about medications and follow-up treatment. Not incidentally, that’s when a doctor might also learn something about guns in the home.
That same loosening of the privacy laws would apply to universities and other institutions, so that administrators could let parents know if a student had been treated for an acute bout of mental illness.
Under 2646, Medicaid would no longer deny reimbursement for hospitals with more than 16 psychiatric beds — a decades-old rule meant to shut down hospitals of the One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest variety. Nor would the program prohibit urgent-care doctors from immediately handing off a patient to a psychiatrist without having to wait a day, as it does now.
If you try to buy a gun tomorrow, the federal database for background checks will flag you as a threat only if you’ve been given involuntary treatment for mental illness — that is, if you’ve been forcibly brought to a hospital or committed against your will. Murphy wants to increase the number of therapists and available beds in rural communities, to make involuntary commitment a more practical option for judges.
The bill would modestly fund a series of pilot projects for programs that have succeeded in the states, like a telepsychiatry hotline for primary care doctors, while steering money away from federal priorities like the one advising stressed kids to drink fruit smoothies. (Seriously. Read the General Accounting Office’s full report.) And 2646 would create a new assistant secretary at the Department of Health and Human Services to oversee all federal programs dedicated to mental health.
No one is suggesting that Murphy’s proposals, many of which I’ve elided here, would magically transform the culture or prevent more heartbreaking mass shootings. But it’s fair to say that it would give doctors, judges, families and schools more tools to work with when they come in contact with a severely disturbed kid who might be armed.

Faculty members embrace before returning to Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Ore., on Monday. (Photo: John Locher/AP)
And it’s worth noting that 2646 could have a real impact on suicidal patients, too, who account for the vast majority of gun-related tragedies in America.
“The federal policies toward serious mental illness are abusive and neglectful and make it even worse for people who are minorities or low income, plain and simple,” Murphy told me when we sat down in his office earlier this week. He is brisk and businesslike, in the manner of a psychologist, although he looks a bit like Steve Carell.
Murphy is a loyal Republican, with the standard-issue bust of Ronald Reagan sitting on an end table. But he steadfastly refused to get into a dead-end conversation about the Second Amendment or gun ownership generally.
“I’m focused on what’s in their head, not in their hand,” he said. “I want to prevent the problems, and when they emerge, I want to ensure that we do the proper risk assessment, and that persons who have a tendency toward violence, if they are seriously mentally ill, should not be able to attain weapons. That’s what I’m focused on cleaning up. That’s what I can do.”
Only he can’t — or not without some support from his own party’s leadership, anyway. At a minimum, you’d think Murphy’s bill would spark a long overdue conversation about the balance between civil liberties, on one hand, and public safety from gun violence on the other.
That’s a debate we’ve been having when it comes to Islamic terrorism for years now. It’s a good bet that most parents worry more about some psychotic shooter in their kids’ school then they do about the Islamic State, and yet there’s virtually no discussion in the country about when we sacrifice medical confidentiality to get guns away from those who are clearly dangerous.
But while more than a dozen lawmakers have signed on to Murphy’s bill since last week (he has, at last count, 97 Republican co-sponsors and 40 Democrats), 2646 may well remain stuck in the purgatory of the Energy and Commerce Committee, which has been focused on other worthy initiatives, like investing in cures for rare diseases.
When I asked Murphy why he thought his bill hadn’t come up for a vote, he shrugged and said he didn’t know.
What we do know is that Republicans are generally wary of anything that runs afoul of libertarians or gun-loving conspiracy theorists, or any bill that expands the reach of government. Just as the White House — which could be jumping on this bill as a consensus measure to address the shootings — doesn’t want to do anything that might be seen as blaming mental illness, rather than blaming the gun.
And so the sad fact is that a sensible bill that actually might begin to do something about this sickening entanglement of guns and delusion has about as much chance of reaching the president’s desk as we do of getting through the next six months without another classroom slaughter.
Washington already has its Murphy’s Law, and it’s not the one that could save some lives.
Oralist is offline   Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 12:57 PM   #2
Fishpie
Valued Poster
 
Fishpie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 26, 2012
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,058
Default

When people bring stuff like this up I don't think they think this fully through. If someone is mentally unstable do people really think they're going to reach out for help? A high level of pride among other things stops them from reaching out.
Fishpie is offline   Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 01:48 PM   #3
Trey
Valued Poster
 
Trey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 25, 2010
Location: The rising sun
Posts: 9,925
Encounters: 70
Default

Thing is you don't have to be crazy to do crazy shit. Many of us have guns and if we just one day start blasting folks it really don't mean I'm crazy just because I did crazy shit. People got off, snap, break bad (I miss that show) a mental test won't solve the problem. Only way to slow it is make and sell less guns to everyone. That ain't gonna happen, even if it did people would find a new way to do mass killings.
Trey is offline   Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 04:23 PM   #4
O'Mike
Premium Access
 
O'Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 25, 2009
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,870
Encounters: 57
Default

The mental health issue is a very slippery slope.

Any and all rights that are going to be denied a person must always go through a court of law, and have the option for appeal/repeal of the judgement. Biased mental health professionals could impose their own personal agenda at will on any person that is placed in front of them. Trying to figure out what level of mental illness, and establishing a fair standard for proceeding with the forced loss of a persons liberties must be taken very seriously and should not be left to some bureaucrat or non-judicial process.

I personally know some practicing mental health professionals that believe that anyone that wants a gun has an issue. (Just to be fair I also know folks in that same field that C-Carry and are strong supporters of our 2nd amendment liberties.)

Anti gunners can not understand the failures of the racist gun laws that they have been promoting since the troubles in the 60's. It is a shame that some of the folks that most need effective and reasonable priced personal protection have been denied that choice for so long by the community leaders that claim to have their best interests in mind.
O'Mike is offline   Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 05:15 PM   #5
Wakeup
Valerie's Mod Husband
 
Wakeup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 13, 2010
Location: Houston
Posts: 28,030
Encounters: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trey View Post
Only way to slow it is make and sell less guns to everyone. That ain't gonna happen, even if it did people would find a new way to do mass killings.
Yes...they would find a new way...and most of the time, that new way is so much more difficult than grabbing their mom's semi-automatic and blasting away that they end up not doing it...as other countries have proven...
Wakeup is offline   Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 05:59 PM   #6
Slitlikr
Valued Poster
 
Slitlikr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 28, 2014
Location: Whiskey Flats
Posts: 5,175
Encounters: 72
Default

Mass shooting statistics have been flat since 1976.
Modern media hype has created the hysteria.
Slitlikr is offline   Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 06:08 PM   #7
GlobeSpotter
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Sep 28, 2012
Location: Houston
Posts: 17,384
Encounters: 43
Default

Yeah and don't forget about that dude in satx that ran over a bunch of people with is pickup truck.

And that mass school killing (the largest ever) where the dude blew up the school.
GlobeSpotter is offline   Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 06:09 PM   #8
Wakeup
Valerie's Mod Husband
 
Wakeup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 13, 2010
Location: Houston
Posts: 28,030
Encounters: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slitlikr View Post
Mass shooting statistics have been flat since 1976.
Modern media hype has created the hysteria.
Heh, this is funny...
Wakeup is offline   Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 06:50 PM   #9
Guest021824
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Jan 5, 2010
Posts: 25,367
Encounters: 102
Default

Ultimately, they want to take away everyone's guns. It's all about control, the gov'ts control over your ability to own a gun. So, if they keep up the hysteria over publicized shootings (real or not) the public will willingly give up their guns. That's when the real trouble starts......
Guest021824 is offline   Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 08:20 PM   #10
Wakeup
Valerie's Mod Husband
 
Wakeup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 13, 2010
Location: Houston
Posts: 28,030
Encounters: 4
Default

I'm an avid firearm owner. I say make it extremely hard for me to get a firearm. Make me register it with every agency under the sun. Require me to to take 40 hours of training on every firearm before I'm allowed to purchase it. Require me to take refresher training on every firearm I own every year. Make me buy insurance against improper use of my firearm. Outlaw gun show and personal gifts/sales of firearms. Make me undergo personal FBI, ATF, local cop interviews before every purchase. Complete background checks every year. Come up with more shit, and even more shit for me to do to get one. Any violation requires the forfeiture of my weapons.

Wont stop me from getting a firearm, because I'm a responsible gun owner. In 50 years or so when every idiot owning a gun is a thing of the past, then we check and see what making it hard to acquire a gun does to these statistics.
Wakeup is offline   Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 08:36 PM   #11
pyramider
El Hombre de la Mancha
 
pyramider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 30, 2009
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 46,370
Encounters: 10
Default

Gun control works ... check out the stats in Chicago ...
pyramider is offline   Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 08:39 PM   #12
Wakeup
Valerie's Mod Husband
 
Wakeup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 13, 2010
Location: Houston
Posts: 28,030
Encounters: 4
Default

Check out the stats in Texas...
Wakeup is offline   Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 09:06 PM   #13
Slitlikr
Valued Poster
 
Slitlikr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 28, 2014
Location: Whiskey Flats
Posts: 5,175
Encounters: 72
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakeup View Post
Heh, this is funny...
It's also true.

NRA lifer since 81.
Benefactor since 01.
Slitlikr is offline   Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 09:11 PM   #14
Wakeup
Valerie's Mod Husband
 
Wakeup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 13, 2010
Location: Houston
Posts: 28,030
Encounters: 4
Default

As with any stat you specifically choose to support your argument...

Wakeup is offline   Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 09:30 PM   #15
Slitlikr
Valued Poster
 
Slitlikr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 28, 2014
Location: Whiskey Flats
Posts: 5,175
Encounters: 72
Default

Facts don't lie.
We are on the same page WU.
Supporters of the 2nd ammendment should argue with the opposition.
Slitlikr is offline   Quote
Reply



AMPReviews.net
Find Ladies
Hot Women

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright © 2009 - 2016, ECCIE Worldwide, All Rights Reserved