Tea Terrorists

[Colonel Jim]

Originally Posted by Doove

They do. A fact that's been pointed out to you on numerous occasions. A fact that you continue to ignore. A fact that's not going to go away simply because you refuse to acknowledge it.

Do all libs have cognitive problems? I'll type slower so you can keep up. The question referred to f-e-d-e-r-a-l i-n-c-om-e t-a-x-e-s. Payroll taxes, such as Social Security, Medicare, etc. were passed and sold the the public as "contributions" for a specified benefit. They are not supposed to be used for any other purpose. (You can thank Lyndon "Great Society" Johnson for any variation of that purpose.) Therefore payment of payroll taxes are not intended for the general maintenance of the government.

The lower two quartiles pay payroll taxes, but not federal income taxes. In fact they get back 5.6 percent more than they put in. You are obfuscating the issue with this continual reference to the irrelevant. If you want to change it, let's revise the entire tax structure and make it honest.

This is the last time I will honor this with an answer.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Colonel Jim

Do all libs have cognitive problems? I'll type slower so you can keep up. The question referred to f-e-d-e-r-a-l i-n-c-om-e t-a-x-e-s. Payroll taxes, such as Social Security, Medicare, etc. were passed and sold the the public as "contributions" for a specified benefit. They are not supposed to be used for any other purpose. (You can thank Lyndon "Great Society" Johnson for any variation of that purpose.) Therefore payment of payroll taxes are not intended for the general maintenance of the government.

The lower two quartiles pay payroll taxes, but not federal income taxes. In fact they get back 5.6 percent more than they put in. You are obfuscating the issue with this continual reference to the irrelevant. If you want to change it, let's revise the entire tax structure and make it honest.

This is the last time I will honor this with an answer.

Besides SS and Medicare WTF is the next big ticket item?

DEFENSE.

WE are not paying our military bill.

SS and Medicare are running a surplus. Where do you think that surplus went? IOU's to pay for DEFENSE and WARS.

So instead of raising FEDERAL INCOME TAXES on the rich, you want to raise them on the poor and middle class.

Do you also want to cut benefits to SS recipitants' so the military can keep being paid with surplus SS payments?

So call what ever tax is or benifit or wtf ever you want to call it. The tax for paying defense is a benifit. All taxes go to someone's benifit.

You get your talking points from the Heritage foundation? Rush? Hannity? Where did you get that BS from? Changing the name of a tax to a benifit? WTF? Who believes that BS?

[Doove]

Originally Posted by Colonel Jim

Do all libs have cognitive problems? I'll type slower so you can keep up. The question referred to f-e-d-e-r-a-l i-n-c-om-e t-a-x-e-s.

Funny, when you get called out on the carpet, you have no problem typing the words "federal income taxes". But unless that happens, you keep using only the word "taxes".

And i don't recall any "question" referring solely to federal income taxes. The discussion you and Olivia started is about 50% of people who supposedly don't pay any taxes. That's the claim you, Olivia, and wizardofahhhs have made. And while you clearly understand the distinction, i don't believe for a second that you care if the people reading your posts understand the distinction. In fact, i'm guessing you hope they don't. Which is why i'm here to remind them.

Semantics matters.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by Doove

…………..And if you would have accepted the fact that the whole scenario being suggested by the birthers was nothing short of utterly ridiculous, i wouldn't be able to knock you over the head with it every chance i get……………

Actually, it is weird for someone to go about changing their name, and it is also odd for a presidential candidate, let alone a American president, that is not an army brat to grow up over seas. In fact, when someone changes their name, one of the big questions is WHY? Are you attempting to get out from under debt or some other legal problems? No, it is a reasonable thing to have asked for.

Originally Posted by Doove

…………….Once you criticize left leaning ideas as being fringe, and wishing those who held them would simply shut up and go away, you made your birther beliefs germane to the discussion……………..

Then you aren’t listening to the things I say. I criticize Republicans and Democrats alike for being on the fringes of what the mainstay of Americans want or for being so far outside the mainstream that they can’t get anything done. I absolutely detested George II for being a partying-boy, dry-drunk, right wing Christian – I don’t even know how he fit all those ridiculous personalities into his little pin head. I am equally as distrustful and knock Obama for being the disappointment that he is.

Originally Posted by Doove

Funny, when you get called out on the carpet, you have no problem typing the words "federal income taxes". But unless that happens, you keep using only the word "taxes".

And i don't recall any "question" referring solely to federal income taxes. The discussion you and Olivia started is about 50% of people who supposedly don't pay any taxes. That's the claim you, Olivia, and wizardofahhhs have made. And while you clearly understand the distinction, i don't believe for a second that you care if the people reading your posts understand the distinction. In fact, i'm guessing you hope they don't. Which is why i'm here to remind them.

Semantics matters.

Of course I care Doove. I think most people when talking about “taxes” make an assumption that federal income taxes are what is being discussed. When George I said, “Read my lips. No new taxes.”, everyone, and I mean everyone, knew he meant federal income taxes. In this instance, we are talking about federal legislation and the federal debt ceiling, it is more than a fair assumption that we are talking about federal income taxes and not the $10,800 I pay annually in property taxes. It isn’t semantics; it’s logical, linear thinking.

Originally Posted by Laz

The market dropped because the economy sucks which can be directly attributed to the policies of the last 10 years. Obama ran as not Bush. What is funny is that he has continued Bushes policies in Iraq and Afganistan and upped the ante with Libya.

Econimically he took the worst of Bush's economic policy which was bailing out corporations that should have been allowed to go through bankruptcy and spending more than the government had and dramatically increased it.

Now he accuses the Tea Party of irresposibility when thay are the only group pushing for a solution and not a temporary bandaid that will leave an even bigger problem for the future. He and all of the people like him in both parties are the ones being criminally neglegent. I can only hope the next election cycle sends more Tea Party members to DC. Not Republicans or Democrats.

I couldn't agree with this more. These are my sentiments exactly.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Of course I care Doove. I think most people when talking about “taxes” make an assumption that federal income taxes are what is being discussed. it is more than a fair assumption that we are talking about federal income taxes and not the $10,800 I pay annually in property taxes. It isn’t semantics; it’s logical, linear thinking.

First, I'm not talking about property taxes, Olivia. I've made it perfectly clear that i'm talking about federal taxes that people pay, in spite of not paying income tax. So your rebuttal leads me to think you may have made my point. Not to be a snot, but it makes me wonder if even you realize that income taxes aren't the only federal taxes that people pay.

But more to the point, if what you say is true, that it's nothing more than your being lazy in your effort to spell out what you truly mean, why do you or Colonel Jim even care that i make the correction to your comment by filling in the blanks? I make a factual correction to your, taken literally, inaccurate statement. And your problem with that.....is????? As many times as you and Colonel Jim pushed back on this, you clearly do have a problem with your literal inaccuracy being pointed out to you. Again, i would ask, why? Why not just concede that, ok, pretty much everyone pays federal taxes but they don't pay income taxes. And then explain your problem with that concept.

I'll tell you why I think you and Colonel Jim have a problem with my correcting you. It's because as i've said once or twice already, the statement "50% of wage earners, while paying federal taxes, don't pay income taxes..." just doesn't have the same impact as saying "50% of wage earners don't pay taxes".

And lacking the rhetorical impact, your arguments fall apart. It's as simple as that.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Doove

I'll tell you why I think you and Colonel Jim have a problem with my correcting you. It's because as i've said once or twice already, the statement "50% of wage earners, while paying federal taxes, don't pay income taxes..." just doesn't have the same impact as saying "50% of wage earners don't pay taxes".

And lacking the rhetorical impact, your arguments fall apart. It's as simple as that.

I think the exact same thing.

Most people do not understand how taxes are garnered. That is why certain folks say that truly inaccurate statement.

At the end of the day, it really does not matter if the poor do not pay any Federal Income tax....they pay state and local taxes. They do not make enought to pay Federal. If the rich want them to pay more in Federal Income taxes.....PAY THEM MORE!

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by Doove

First, I'm not talking about property taxes, Olivia. I've made it perfectly clear that i'm talking about federal taxes that people pay, in spite of not paying income tax. So your rebuttal leads me to think you may have made my point. Not to be a snot, but it makes me wonder if even you realize that income taxes aren't the only federal taxes that people pay.

But more to the point, if what you say is true, that it's nothing more than your being lazy in your effort to spell out what you truly mean, why do you or Colonel Jim even care that i make the correction to your comment by filling in the blanks? I make a factual correction to your, taken literally, inaccurate statement. And your problem with that.....is????? As many times as you and Colonel Jim pushed back on this, you clearly do have a problem with your literal inaccuracy being pointed out to you. Again, i would ask, why? Why not just concede that, ok, pretty much everyone pays federal taxes but they don't pay income taxes. And then explain your problem with that concept.

I'll tell you why I think you and Colonel Jim have a problem with my correcting you. It's because as i've said once or twice already, the statement "50% of wage earners, while paying federal taxes, don't pay income taxes..." just doesn't have the same impact as saying "50% of wage earners don't pay taxes".

And lacking the rhetorical impact, your arguments fall apart. It's as simple as that.

Originally Posted by WTF

I think the exact same thing.

Most people do not understand how taxes are garnered. That is why certain folks say that truly inaccurate statement.

Sigh to both of you.

Doove, YOU are the one that keep rebutting into the inane. I am talking about federal income taxes not social security or medicare. I’ve not only paid the personal income taxes in a ridiculously high bracket juxtaposed to the ratio of the top 3%’s income vs their percentage paid in taxes, but I’ve paid for years 940 and 941 taxes. I am perfectly well aware of what kind of taxes are withheld from individual’s pay.

Originally Posted by WTF

At the end of the day, it really does not matter if the poor do not pay any Federal Income tax....they pay state and local taxes. They do not make enought to pay Federal. If the rich want them to pay more in Federal Income taxes.....PAY THEM MORE![IMG]file:///C:/Users/JANEGR%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

I flat disagree, ALL Americans should pay federal income taxes no matter how small except those on social security or some other such already-taxed income.

Peace on this one boyz.

[Jackie S]

How much in TOTAL fees and taxes does an individual pay through the calender year. That means every dollar that is given to any Government Entity, whether it be City, County, State, or Federal.

I think I will go to my accountant and see if he can help me figure it. I bet it tops 60 percent of my gross income.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

How much in TOTAL fees and taxes does an individual pay through the calender year. That means every dollar that is given to any Government Entity, whether it be City, County, State, or Federal.

I think I will go to my accountant and see if he can help me figure it. I bet it tops 60 percent of my gross income.

I wouldn’t be surprised – at all.

Income tax – 25% for the bell curve bulk of the nation’s earners
SS and Medicare – 5% or so on just the employee’s contribution
Property tax – Personally, mine is about 8% of my income
Sales tax – In Houston, Texas that’s 8.25% of everything I spend retail, restaurant, etc. type of things. So I’ll ballpark it at 15% of my gross. I’m sure it’s a lowball number.
Tolls, car registration, wine, no cigarettes for me, airline, utilities, cell phone, no cable for me, hotels, car rentals, etc. – I’d guess about 2%. I’m sure this is a low ball too.

Without my company’s employer’s taxes and just quickly and off the cuff, I’ve come up with 55%. I’ll bet it’s more.

[CPT Savajo]

In some cities where I live sales tax is as high as 10%, were tithing and I don't even go to church. Americans are getting raped by all of these taxes and I know the majority of us are fed up with it. Especially while these BIG bankers get the special treatment and get bailed out, while everyone else has to take it up the ass. Where's the fairness?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w-en...layer_embedded

[Doove]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Without my company’s employer’s taxes and just quickly and off the cuff, I’ve come up with 55%. I’ll bet it’s more.

Interesting. I pulled this year's tax return out and ran the actual numbers, as opposed to guestimating based on the 25% bracket i fall into.

I came up with a total of 28.5% before sales taxes and fees. And that includes a 5% state tax you're not paying. And in order to get to 15% in sales taxes at the 8% sales tax rate i pay, i'd need to spend 1.8X per week in sales taxes alone, what i typically budget myself for spending money in total. In other words, there's not a chance in hell that it's 15% of my gross.

By the way, i'm drawing a blank. At an 8% sales tax rate, in order to spend 15% of your gross income in sales taxes, wouldn't you need to spend 200% of your gross income on taxable items alone? Or am i factoring that all wrong?

Anyways, subtracting what i need to pay my mortgage, insurances, car payments, etc, let's figure i pay 4% in sales taxes. An additional 2% for fees (which sounds high, but whatever) brings my total to 34.5%. A far cry from 55%.

By the way, i noticed you included SS and Medicare taxes as taxes paid by yourself. As did I.

[IIFFOFRDB]

Originally Posted by Doove

Interesting. I pulled this year's tax return out and ran the actual numbers, as opposed to guestimating based on the 25% bracket i fall into.

I came up with a total of 28.5% before sales taxes and fees. And that includes a 5% state tax you're not paying. And in order to get to 15% in sales taxes at the 8% sales tax rate i pay, i'd need to spend 1.8X per week in sales taxes alone, what i typically budget myself for spending money in total. In other words, there's not a chance in hell that it's 15% of my gross.

By the way, i'm drawing a blank. At an 8% sales tax rate, in order to spend 15% of your gross income in sales taxes, wouldn't you need to spend 200% of your gross income on taxable items alone? Or am i factoring that all wrong?

Anyways, subtracting what i need to pay my mortgage, insurances, car payments, etc, let's figure i pay 4% in sales taxes. An additional 2% for fees (which sounds high, but whatever) brings my total to 34.5%. A far cry from 55%.

By the way, i noticed you included SS and Medicare taxes as taxes paid by yourself. As did I.

You make no sense.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by IIFFOFRDB

You make no sense.

Which part went over your head?

[IIFFOFRDB]

The part where you opened your mouth. LOL

[Laz]

Did you use the actual percent of income you paid in income taxes or your marginal tax rate for the calculation? If you used your marginal tax rate your numbers do not add up. 25% income tax + 7% SS + 2% approx Medicare + 5% state equals 39% taxes on every additional dollar earned. That ignores the 7% SS your employer pays, sales tax, property taxes, gas taxes, taxes paid on products you purchase that are built into the price and god knows what else you pay that the state and federal politicians have created.