Disturbing Video of Fort Worth Arrest.. WTF?

[Scribe]

CT- seriously?

You think there is no "prejudice of the upcoming event" on behalf of that group?

They were there with zero prior expectation and anticipation?

Really? They were there (HAPPY) that the police were coming and had a 100% positive, supportive view of the police prior to that cop saying "Why don't you teach your kid not to litter"?

Had he not said that... had that event NOT started... these people would have written a piece on "We love and respect the Ft Worth police... they are great, honest, fair officers who do nothing but good deeds and they are never wrong"?


BTW the Arlington event (with links) is in post #110
Still want to hear your view on how that went down.

[grean]

Originally Posted by Scribe

grean - I think you're under the misconception that some things can be de-escalated. What makes you feel (if the daughter, who knew her own mother) knew it wasn't going to de-escalate... that an outside, white cop, had ANY chance of de-escalating the situation?

You ever been with a "mean drunk"? Someone who is hell-freakin-bent on getting into a bar fight or trouble? Have you NEVER walked away from something saying "I'm outta here" because you saw "it was going south in a hurry"?

Well, as you all like to point things out about the police, lets point this out... they don't have that luxury either/ A civilian (neighbor, lets say) trying to clear up the feud between two other neighbors could be a freakin therapist... but when they see it getting out of control they can always say "see ya!' and walk away... cops can't.

If they could you'd hear SCREAMS from the public.
"He he he he just WALKED AWAY! He can't DO THAT?!?"

So because they are obligated to serve us, its ok we treat them like SHt just because we can without recourse, grean?

(That was my point CT - slavery wasn't right "just because you could" (at the time))

Scribe,
You are absolutely correct. Sometimes you can't. My point is that he never tried. His choice of words made it worse.

It certainly is not okay for us to treat police like shit. However, in this case, the officer could have at least tried to handle it better, first. He brought it on himself. If after he tried to de-escalate it and the mother still did not calm down, then he could treat the situation a little more aggressively. Right off the bat though, he started ramping up her anger.

[Chung Tran]

Originally Posted by Scribe

Had he not said that... had that event NOT started... these people would have written a piece on "We love and respect the Ft Worth police... they are great, honest, fair officers who do nothing but good deeds and they are never wrong"?


BTW the Arlington event (with links) is in post #110
Still want to hear your view on how that went down.

Ha! no, I'm sure they did not have the most favorable view of the Cops before the incident.. and why would they? there has been many cases of police abuse of power, especially towards blacks.. but Mom felt like she could call the Cops and receive justice, so that counts for a lot.. she stopped the enraged black guy from opening a can of whoop-ass on the alleged white choke artist, so she obviously felt like the law would do its proper duty.. she didn't expect to be Mrs. Rodney King as the video rolled.

the Arlington Cop did well, he handled the pot incident rationally. reminded me of an incident in my youth, when I wrote "fuck" on the street with a chalk-like stone. my elderly neighbor saw it, and gave me 2 choices: he would tell my parents when they got home, or I could wash off the street, and we would forget it ever happened.. I chose #2, he got a bucket of soapy water, and I cleaned the street.. I was, ahem, fucking tired after, but I was glad to get that option. the white choke artist should have done something similar.. told Mom when the 7 year old refused to pick up the litter.

[Scribe]

Originally Posted by grean

Scribe,
You are absolutely correct. Sometimes you can't. My point is that he never tried. His choice of words made it worse.

It certainly is not okay for us to treat police like shit. However, in this case, the officer could have at least tried to handle it better, first. He brought it on himself. If after he tried to de-escalate it and the mother still did not calm down, then he could treat the situation a little more aggressively. Right off the bat though, he started ramping up her anger.

grean - thank you. Now all there is between us (and between many people out there) is a "difference of opinion".

We BOTH agree that it could have been handled better.
I AGREE that officers have a responsibility to de-escalate a situation when possible.
We BOTH agree that didn't happen. (Officer failure)
We BOTH agree, it's not (right... and by right I mean "proper" or "beneficial to your standing in a situation") to treat the police without respect.

So, we're down to a disagreement over our opinion on how much involvement of the others and prejudiced bias of the civilians influenced the outcome of events...

I say "some"
You and CT say "zero"

So I go back to my platform. It's everyone's DUTY to act responsibly and respectfully to other regardless of the fact that they are civilians or police. (Even though the Police are more obligated by their station).

We may have finally gotten down to the real issue - Is there innate responsibility for respect of BOTH civilian liberties, AND legal authority by which all US citizens must abide?

If you say "No", then my feeling is you're basically siding with those "sovereign citizen" nut-jobs.

[Scribe]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

Ha! no, I'm sure they did not have the most favorable view of the Cops before the incident.. and why would they? there has been many cases of police abuse of power, especially towards blacks.. but Mom felt like she could call the Cops and receive justice, so that counts for a lot.. she stopped the enraged black guy from opening a can of whoop-ass on the alleged white choke artist, so she obviously felt like the law would do its proper duty.. she didn't expect to be Mrs. Rodney King as the video rolled.

the Arlington Cop did well, he handled the pot incident rationally. reminded me of an incident in my youth, when I wrote "fuck" on the street with a chalk-like stone. my elderly neighbor saw it, and gave me 2 choices: he would tell my parents when they got home, or I could wash off the street, and we would forget it ever happened.. I chose #2, he got a bucket of soapy water, and I cleaned the street.. I was, ahem, fucking tired after, but I was glad to get that option. the white choke artist should have done something similar.. told Mom when the 7 year old refused to pick up the litter.

CT - thank you. There was bias, and it was painfully obvious for me (and many others) to see. I totally agree with your statement above (although, I feel had she not known her daughter was filming - she would have let the guy get his ass kicked... which, as a Parent, I could have understood and probably applauded had someone laid their hands on my child. (Scribe has no kids, just saying "I could get it")

Now... I explained my reasoning in the last post I did to 'grean'; but...

Had the Arlington Mother been as out of control as the Ft Worth mother; had she been upset, had there been a bunch of bystanders interfering, and yelling... do you thing the ARLINGTON event would have transpired the way it did? (Which - BTW - is what I would have LIKED to see the Ft Worth cop do... That's why I wanted the 7 year old THERE...)

See, that guy that had you scrub the sidewalk; that worked CT because you (and I and probably grean) grew up with a certain respect for authority, and definitely a respect for the fact that "if we did something and got caught, we were going to get far worse than 'grabbed by the collar, so we felt choked' by our parents... Our parents (mine, at least) would have had no issue 'tanning our hide" if I did any vandalism or threw trash in a neighbors yard.

This is why society worked.

If we start promoting "civilians have zero responsibility to respect authority" - it will never be a good situation for police / civilian interaction. It's "checks and balances" that make any system work.

[grean]

I cannot remember how long ago it was when during my interactions with police officers, I began to address officers with a "yes or no officer" , instead of "sir, yes sir or sir, no sir". It wasn't out of a loss of respect just that when they started becoming 10 or 15 or even 20 years younger than I.......

I've never had a single officer ever treat me with disrespect. Even as a young man, they always addressed me with courtesy. I responded in kind.

I totally agree that if the mother did not react as she did to his line of questions, the situation would have been different.

However, I'm not certain from the time he arrived if he ever gave her an ounce of respect. Her reaction was a bit baited. She shouldn't have ever been asked those questions. What cause did the officer have to ask her those questions?

And yes, Scribe, my neighbors busted my brothers and I on a regular basis. We usually got busted again after dad got home, just for doing something so stupid that made the neighbors give us the first whoopin'. Rowdy bunch, we were.

Different times.....

Today, we wouldn't dream of touching a kid in the neighborhood. The police would come and haul any one of us straight to jail if we did. The mother who called would probably be outside of her mind and yelling at anyone and everyone, including the police. The police would understand why she was upset. They would not question her parenting. They would not ask her why she felt whoever hit her kid did not have a right to do so.They would not arrest her. Any guesses why?

I'm still scratching my head as to why it didn't happen that way in ft. Worth. Today you just don't touch kids that aren't your own. Hell, you can get in hot water for busting your own kids in today's society.

The mother in ft. Worth probably had some preconceived notions about police and probably does usually shy away from calling them, like you said. She probably thought this was such a cut and dry case, though that surely they could even get the police to make it right. Whoops!

[Chung Tran]

Originally Posted by grean

I totally agree that if the mother did not react as she did to his line of questions, the situation would have been different.

However, I'm not certain from the time he arrived if he ever gave her an ounce of respect. Her reaction was a bit baited. She shouldn't have ever been asked those questions. What cause did the officer have to ask her those questions?

the Cop absolutely gave her zero respect.. it is clear from beginning to end, in posture and words. yes, it is a good idea for citizens to show respect to the Officers.. just as it is a good idea in human interaction of all kinds.. but..

I go back to the idea that Mom did not escalate, nor did her daughters.. Mom called the Cops, thinking that LE would help her.. she kept the enraged man at bay, to let LE handle the matter.. she respected the system, if she did not, she would not have called the Cops, and she would let the pissed off guy apply his standard of justice.

the Cop baited Mom, taunted her.. she responded by raising her voice and telling the Cop he did not know how she raised her son.. that's it.. the Cop had a power trip going, and could not stand for a black woman he disrespected, to raise her voice in defiance of his opinion.

the daughters were not interfering.. the videographer stood back to film, the 15 year old tried to calm her Mom.. she probably sensed the Cop was about to go ape shit, that's the vibe I got watching.. sure enough he did.

to Scribe's point.. the Civilians did show some respect to the Officer, it broke down (obviously) after he went berserk.. it was only then that the profanities began.. the Cop was so out of control, he didn't care he was filmed, or how bad he looked.. he was whooping 3 bad black women.. what could be wrong about that?

[Scribe]

Again, because we discussed things we all can see each others points and opinions.

I think a lot of angles were examined and discussed.

It will be interested in seeing the outcome - particularly for the neighbor, and the officer.

[Chung Tran]

2 weeks since the incident.. no movement yet. maybe the City is waiting to announce the results at one time.. the charges (or not) against the white guy, dropping the charges (or not) against the ladies, and firing (or not) the Officer.. kind of hard to announce one outcome and not the others, without fueling unrest.. in the meantime, the City Council should worry about this..

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/mckin...city-5-million

[grean]

Well as far as charges against the women, by the letter of the law, so to speak, what did they actually do that warranted an arrest?

The cop said that he was going to arrest her if she pissed him off. I'm no legal expert, but I don't think pissing off the police is an arrestable offence.

I know they were charged with resisting arrest but what is the charge that got them arrested in the first place?

[grean]

Is there a good chance the three of us have given this more attention that it will ever receive in the media?

[mediavolume]

I would like to chime in since No One else has made the observation that even the kids know the mom is hot headed and is going to cause an issue.
1: warning her not to yell
2: the child gets between the mom and the police officer

THE KIDS KNEW SHE WAS DOING WRONG.


This observation is completely unbiased (from me) since it is their actions not mine.

Now for my opinion. Anything less than civil discourse when dealing with the police will have consequences. I have done hot headed things when i was younger and had similar results. And guess what... i am white.

By the moms logic i shouldnt be able to give her child a high five because i put my hands on her child. Talking in that manner is vague and tries to conjure an image of assault when there probably was none.

I had a friend whose girlfriend did the same to him. Police came and she was yelling similar crap. "He put his hands on me and threw me down". To which i told the police the truth. "Yes because she was hitting him"

How about instead of
hands up dont shoot
Mouth shut dont pollute

[Chung Tran]

Originally Posted by grean

Is there a good chance the three of us have given this more attention that it will ever receive in the media?

probably so.. the "story" didn't have legs.. Fort Worth is hardly known for advanced social thought, and I think people just didn't give a shit after 2 days.

Originally Posted by mediavolume

I would like to chime in since No One else has made the observation that even the kids know the mom is hot headed and is going to cause an issue.
1: warning her not to yell
2: the child gets between the mom and the police officer

THE KIDS KNEW SHE WAS DOING WRONG.

I disagree completely, and your statement goes back to my theory about "not getting it", based on different background and world view.. the Kids did not know Mom was wrong (nor was she), but they understand the history (much of it recent and local) of negative encounters blacks and police have had.. that's why they wanted to calm Mom, so the Cop would not go rouge.. the daughter got between the Cop and Mom only after the Cop threatened to arrest Mom for pissing him off.. you and Scribe, me and grean see the same video, and interpret it very different..

why didn't you answer grean's question? I assume you think it's okay that the Cop arrested Mom for pissing him off? for being too loud? that's what I gather from your statement.

[Chung Tran]

damn.. North Carolina too..

at least that Cop is Hispanic.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nor...cid=spartandhp

[Recurve Jones]

You people have no idea of what cops have to go through during the normal course of their job, they take the most shit from people like that. Of course they will have their moments, but it's nothing to lose their job over. We need more cops as it is.