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name me anyone in the Ukraine government that isn't considered corrupt?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lustylad
Is there anyone in Ukraine who ISN'T corrupt and doesn't just say whatever they think the person talking to them wants to hear, especially if that person looks like someone who might have mucho dinero in his pocket?
All I see are blurry shady shadowy creepsters everywhere. They almost seem interchangeable. The whole thing is giving me a headache!
Maybe someone can explain it to me after everyone gets their narratives straight. Or never.
Vitaly Kasko isn't in government and isn't corrupt. He was ideally placed as the deputy in the prosecutor's office responsible for asset recovery to know first hand that no action was being taken to pursue matters having to do with Burisma. (Hunter Biden was a director of Burisma.) Kasko resigned and became a whistleblower because of corruption and lawlessness in the prosecutor's office.
About the blurry, shady, shadowy creepsters, maybe this will help. Viktor Yanukovych was president of the Ukraine from 2010 until 2014, when he was removed as a result of a revolution and went into exile in Russia. Like many from eastern Ukraine, his sympathies lie with Russia.
Mykola Zlochevsky is a businessman who controls Burisma Holdings, a company that produces natural gas in the Ukraine. Zlochevsky was a minister in Yanukovych's cabinet. He's accused of stealing from the state owned natural gas producer, among other things. He's undoubtedly corrupt, and was (and probably still is) paying off politicians and bureaucrats. Again, Hunter Biden was a director of Burisma Holdings, his company.
Viktor Shokin is former Prosecutor General of Ukraine. After Yanukovych was overthrown, it was expected he would prosecute corrupt officials and businessman, particularly those who had ties to Yanukovych. That didn't happen. Furthermore, Shokin persecuted Ukrainian anti-corruption groups, and people in his department were arrested with stacks of cash they'd received as bribes. International pressure on Ukraine to kick out Shokin came not only from the USA, but also the European Union, the IMF, and others. Kasko, the only good guy in the cast of characters, says Shokin did not pursue investigations against Burisma and Zlochevsky. And Kasko is backed up by records from the prosecutors office.
The only scenario I can think of where you could pin blame on Joe Biden would be if Shokin was holding up Burisma, trying to get outrageous bribes, and so Joe Biden is enlisted to get rid of Shokin. This isn't backed up by the history on the U.S. end, given that the pressure on Ukraine to ditch Shokin originated in the State Department, not from Biden. The chances of Joe Biden having done something crooked here are about as great as the chances of Donald Trump having actively and directly colluded with the Russians to win the election. In other words, I think it's a ridiculous idea.
and i'm sure an avid reader of this forum like yourself knows that the US happens to have a treaty with Ukraine to cooperate on criminal matters. especially corruption. was it an abuse of power for Trump to invoke a standing treaty? it is if you ask Nancy and Adam Schitthead.
This looks like Neil Bush on steroids. You'll recall he was George H.W. Bush's son who was director of a Savings & Loan with shady loans that went bankrupt. Hunter Bush doesn't know shit about Burisma or the gas business and is given a $50,000 per month directorship by a crooked Ukrainian oligarch solely for the purpose of trying to make Burisma and the oligarch looking more respectable. He's trading on his father's good name. This stinks to high heaven. But it's very unlikely Hunter Biden did something illegal having to do with the Ukraine. And the idea that Joe Biden did something illegal, like I said above, stretches the limits of credulity.
Trump hasn't made the transition from successful real estate developer to president of the United States. In the days of old, when he had an opponent, he viewed it as fair game to file frivolous lawsuits and also throw mud and see what sticks. When you're the leader of the free world and you control the State Department and the Justice Department, the rules are different. If he'd left this in Giuliani's hand, said nothing about investigating Biden and neither he nor Giuliani had involved the State Department, I'd say what he's doing is fine. That's not the case.
The sad thing, this is hurting Trump and Biden and Elizabeth Warren is the beneficiary. The Wall Street Journal Editorial Board said today they think she's in top place right now to become President in the next election. You can argue, as I have, that this hurts Biden more than it hurts Trump. Well, so what. It looked like Biden was destined for second place in the Democratic Primaries in the first part of August, before the shit hit the fan.
Don't you think it needs investigated? What is wrong with asking for an investigation when probable cause that a crime has been committed appears to exist?
Would it be an impeachable offense to ask the FBI to investigate it?
I don't think Trump should or will be impeached as a result of this, unless it can be shown that he was requiring a Ukrainian investigation of the Bidens in return for U.S. aid to Ukraine. And I don't think that will happen.
I can't speak to China and Hunter Biden, I haven't spent any time looking at that. But with respect to Ukraine, this does not deserve to be investigated. Furthermore, this whole thing is hurting Trump and Biden and increasing the chances that our next president will be a socialist.
Well let's put it like this. Nobody ever sees a roach in the dark it's when you turn on the lights they all scramble for cover. Basically what Trump has done is hit the switch and the Roaches are every where. In order to make America great again you have to get rid of the vermin and they don't like it, lol.
Vitaly Kasko isn't in government and isn't corrupt. He was ideally placed as the deputy in the prosecutor's office responsible for asset recovery to know first hand that no action was being taken to pursue matters having to do with Burisma. (Hunter Biden was a director of Burisma.) Kasko resigned and became a whistleblower because of corruption and lawlessness in the prosecutor's office.
About the blurry, shady, shadowy creepsters, maybe this will help. Viktor Yanukovych was president of the Ukraine from 2010 until 2014, when he was removed as a result of a revolution and went into exile in Russia. Like many from eastern Ukraine, his sympathies lie with Russia.
Mykola Zlochevsky is a businessman who controls Burisma Holdings, a company that produces natural gas in the Ukraine. Zlochevsky was a minister in Yanukovych's cabinet. He's accused of stealing from the state owned natural gas producer, among other things. He's undoubtedly corrupt, and was (and probably still is) paying off politicians and bureaucrats. Again, Hunter Biden was a director of Burisma Holdings, his company.
Viktor Shokin is former Prosecutor General of Ukraine. After Yanukovych was overthrown, it was expected he would prosecute corrupt officials and businessman, particularly those who had ties to Yanukovych. That didn't happen. Furthermore, Shokin persecuted Ukrainian anti-corruption groups, and people in his department were arrested with stacks of cash they'd received as bribes. International pressure on Ukraine to kick out Shokin came not only from the USA, but also the European Union, the IMF, and others. Kasko, the only good guy in the cast of characters, says Shokin did not pursue investigations against Burisma and Zlochevsky. And Kasko is backed up by records from the prosecutors office.
The only scenario I can think of where you could pin blame on Joe Biden would be if Shokin was holding up Burisma, trying to get outrageous bribes, and so Joe Biden is enlisted to get rid of Shokin. This isn't backed up by the history on the U.S. end, given that the pressure on Ukraine to ditch Shokin originated in the State Department, not from Biden. The chances of Joe Biden having done something crooked here are about as great as the chances of Donald Trump having actively and directly colluded with the Russians to win the election. In other words, I think it's a ridiculous idea.
Mykola Zlochevsky was Ihor Kolomoyskyi's front man at Burisma. PrivatBank owned controlling shares in Burisma, and Kolomoyskyi owned PrivatBank.
Quid Pro Joe saw to it that $1.8 billion U.S. taxpayer dollars were deposited in PrivatBank. $1 billion of that money 'disappeared'.
If anyone wonders how Burisma could afford to pay two know-nothings like Devon Archer and Hunter Biden $50 K per month, you needn't look further than the missing billion.
Then there's the matter that Odumbo was advancing U.S. taxpayer dollars to foreign countries, such as Ukraine, in order to stimulate their fossil fuel industry while in the U.S., Odumbo was issuing Executive Orders and passing regulations to shut down those same industries in this country: Odumbo was making it a 'win-win' for Archer and Hunter as Odumbo reduced the competition.
Mykola Zlochevsky was Ihor Kolomoyskyi's front man at Burisma. PrivatBank owned controlling shares in Burisma, and Kolomoyskyi owned PrivatBank.
Quid Pro Joe saw to it that $1.8 billion U.S. taxpayer dollars were deposited in PrivatBank. $1 billion of that money 'disappeared'.
If anyone wonders how Burisma could afford to pay two know-nothings like Devon Archer and Hunter Biden $50 K per month, you needn't look further than the missing billion.
Then there's the matter that Odumbo was advancing U.S. taxpayer dollars to foreign countries, such as Ukraine, in order to stimulate their fossil fuel industry while in the U.S., Odumbo was issuing Executive Orders and passing regulations to shut down those same industries in this country: Odumbo was making it a 'win-win' for Archer and Hunter as Odumbo reduced the competition.
I believe the 1.8 billion dollars or Euros was either a loan from the International Monetary Fund or a loan guarantee, which is a far cry from $1.8 billion of aid paid for by U.S. taxpayer funds. And I have problems believing Biden had something to do with that, or that Burisma somehow managed to siphon off $1 billion.
I can't see how Zlochevsky could be a front man for Kolomoisky. They should be at each others throats. Kolomoisky financed death squads that killed Ukrainians of Russian ancestry, while Zlochevsky served as a minister twice in a strongly pro-Russian government. Kolomoisky's side is currently in power so he's very comfortable in Kiev. Zlochevsky on the other hand is hiding out, maybe in Monaco, as if he enters Ukraine he may be arrested.
The supposed ownership links are apparently mostly based a 2012 "investigation" carried out by an "investigative project that focuses on high scale crimes, political corruption and war crimes," slidstvo. They publish at slidstvo.info. I didn't try to find the purported 2012 source material, which apparently has some sketchy information based on ownership and an address which allegedly leads back to Kolomoisky. However, slidstvo.info is not onboard with this conspiracy theory. They say Shokin and Giuliani's accusations have been rejected by Ukrainian prosecutors as groundless. The two individuals who Giuliani got in bed with in the Ukraine to try and discredit Biden, Parnassus and Fruman, are a couple of crooks. They also have a feud going with Kolomoisky, which is perhaps why he's been drawn into this conspiracy theory. This is from the following. You can translate to English in Google Chrome
I believe the $1.8 billion was a loan from the International Monetary Fund, which is a far cry from $1.8 billion of U.S. taxpayer funds, and have problems believing Biden had something to do with that, or that Burisma somehow managed to siphon off $1 billion.
I can't see how Zlochevsky could be a front man for Kolomoisky. They should be at each others throats. Kolomoisky financed death squads that killed Ukrainians of Russian ancestry, while Zlochevsky served as a minister twice in a strongly pro-Russian government. Kolomoisky's side is currently in power so he's very comfortable in Kiev. Zlochevsky on the other hand is hiding out, maybe in Monaco, as if he enters Ukraine he may be arrested.
The supposed ownership links are apparently mostly based a 2012 "investigation" carried out by an "investigative project that focuses on high scale crimes, political corruption and war crimes," slidstvo. They publish at slidstvo.info. I didn't try to find the purported 2012 source material, which apparently has some sketchy information based on ownership and an address which allegedly leads back to Kolomoisky. However, slidstvo.info is not onboard with this conspiracy theory. They say Shokin and Giuliani's accusations have been rejected by Ukrainian prosecutors as groundless. The two individuals who Giuliani got in bed with in the Ukraine to try and discredit Biden, Parnassus and Fruman, are a couple of crooks. They also have a feud going with Kolomoisky, which is perhaps why he's been drawn into this conspiracy theory. This is from the following. You can translate to English in Google Chrome
the US does contribute to the IMF so some of that 1.8 billion did come directly from US taxpayers. since there are other IMF members one would think they contributed a share also. however the US is the largest stakeholder at 164 billion today. in most cases the money is repaid via interest. still, the initial seed money to start the IMF did come directly from US tax revenue. i'm assuming the interest on investments has recouped that .. however the CBO does say that given the risks that countries receiving IMF can't repay them the cost is stated at about 2 cents on the dollar.
"Since 1945, when the International Monetary Fund (IMF) was established to promote global economic cooperation and stability, the United States has been its largest contributor. Today, the United States’ financial commitment to the IMF totals approximately $164 billion; that is the maximum amount that the IMF can draw from the United States to make loans to other IMF members.
The budgetary cost of participation in the IMF is, however, significantly smaller than the amount of that commitment. The United States and other countries earn interest on the portion of their commitment held by the IMF, and the IMF’s assets, including loans to other members, gold, and financial securities, are sufficient to allow it to return those funds to members in most circumstances. Nevertheless, a small risk remains that the IMF could incur losses on its lending so large that it could not repay the United States the full value of its commitment. Because of that risk, participation in the IMF has a cost to the United States, which CBO currently estimates to be about 2 cents per dollar committed."
everyone in Ukraine should be considered corrupt and everyone is going to take sides that either confirm or deny both sides of the story. this is why it was completely appropriate for Trump to temporarily hold back the aid until he had a chance to speak to the new president. if the current Ukraine president hadn't just been elected and thus the US had an established relationship you might make a case that Trump withheld the aid until Ukraine agreed to investigate Biden's son's role in Marissma but it's clear that's not what happened, Trump did not directly tell Ukraine "no investigation, no aid". He ASKED where of course the press in general and of course Schitthead Schiff et el want to misrepresent it as a demand. his "parody" bullshit was a classic example of trying to spin it that way like Trump is some Mob Boss. i've read several news reports stating Trump TOLD Ukraine's president to investigate however the Ukraine president himself has directly stated that he was not ordered or pressured to do so in order to get the aid.
Very enlightening article. What a fucking cesspool. These two businessmen, Fruman and Parnas, are the same people described in my slidstvo.info link above. They're Giuliani's clients and also his point men in the Ukraine in his attempt to get the Ukrainian government to dig up or fabricate dirt on Joe Biden. These fuckers are trying to replace the head of the Ukrainian national oil and gas company with someone they think they can control and Rick Perry is helping them along. Their plan is to then sell LNG to the Ukraine. This sounds like fucking Africa, meaning out-in-the-open, extreme corruption. Instead of buying LNG from companies like Chevron and Exxon, Ukraine's going to buy it through a couple of shady Ukrainian/American businessmen.
Apparently Giuliani, Parnas and Fruman are also the main reason our Ukrainian ambassador was replaced - they couldn't have someone in that position who was fighting corruption. Trump said the reason he was on the call with the Ukrainian president Zelensky was because of Rick Perry. Well, it sounds like what Perry (and Giuliani) wanted him to do on the call was potentially worse than what the Democrats believe actually happened. Trump didn't take the bait. He needs to fire Giuliani, stop the Biden obsession and get on with running the country and campaigning for re-election. Giuliani's main interest in the Ukraine likely isn't "helping" Trump, but rather making money, for himself and/or his clients.
If you can put up with reading an English translation of Ukrainian language text, you should take a look at my link. Do it in Google Chrome, and right click on your mouse and translate to English. It tells another side of the story, what these two jokers, Parnas and Fruman, were up to with Giuliani's "investigation" of Biden and their contact with the most powerful and corrupt of the Ukrainian oligarchs, Ihor Kolomoisky. No wonder Kolomoisky kicked them out of his office. They wanted to use Kolomoisky's pull with the Ukrainian president to put their plan into place to control the national oil and gas company.
I believe the 1.8 billion dollars or Euros was either a loan from the International Monetary Fund or a loan guarantee, which is a far cry from $1.8 billion of aid paid for by U.S. taxpayer funds. And I have problems believing Biden had something to do with that, or that Burisma somehow managed to siphon off $1 billion.
I can't see how Zlochevsky could be a front man for Kolomoisky. They should be at each others throats. Kolomoisky financed death squads that killed Ukrainians of Russian ancestry, while Zlochevsky served as a minister twice in a strongly pro-Russian government. Kolomoisky's side is currently in power so he's very comfortable in Kiev. Zlochevsky on the other hand is hiding out, maybe in Monaco, as if he enters Ukraine he may be arrested.
The supposed ownership links are apparently mostly based a 2012 "investigation" carried out by an "investigative project that focuses on high scale crimes, political corruption and war crimes," slidstvo. They publish at slidstvo.info. I didn't try to find the purported 2012 source material, which apparently has some sketchy information based on ownership and an address which allegedly leads back to Kolomoisky. However, slidstvo.info is not onboard with this conspiracy theory. They say Shokin and Giuliani's accusations have been rejected by Ukrainian prosecutors as groundless. The two individuals who Giuliani got in bed with in the Ukraine to try and discredit Biden, Parnassus and Fruman, are a couple of crooks. They also have a feud going with Kolomoisky, which is perhaps why he's been drawn into this conspiracy theory. This is from the following. You can translate to English in Google Chrome
I said "U.S. tax dollars" and you're quibbling and deflecting to the word "aid" -- which I did not use.
Quote:
U.K. Court Freezes Assets of Ex-Owners of Ukraine's Top Bank
December 20, 2017
Justice Christopher Nugee in the U.K. High Court granted a worldwide freezing order against billionaires Igor Kolomoisky and Gennady Bogolyubov, including six companies they’re believed to own or control as of Dec. 19, Privatbank said late Wednesday by email. The bank said the two men used a “series of dishonest transactions” to transfer almost $2 billion to themselves. The order also covers interest on the allegedly misappropriated assets.
Burisma changed owners last year: instead of Zlochevsky and Lisin, the company was taken over by a Cypriot off-shore enterprise called Brociti Investments Ltd. Pari and Esko-Pivnich also changed their address: they moved from Kateryny Bilokur Street to 10a Rylyeyeva Stree in Kyiv. A third company was already waiting for them in the same building – the above-mentioned Ukrnaftoburinnya.
If these three companies were brought together under one roof, it’s logical to assume that they were all owned by one person. At least “Slidstvo.Info” managed to find out the name of the owner of Ukrnaftoburinnya. According to the SMIDA state system, 90% of Ukrnaftoburinnya is owned by a Cypriot company, Deripon Commercial Ltd. With the help of our colleagues from the International Fund OCCRP (Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project), we learned who “derypons” the largest gas field in Ukraine.
In fact, the end owner of Deripon Commercial Ltd. is a company based in the British Virgin Islands – Burrad Financial Corp. This company has often been involved in various financial schemes of the Privat Group and especially with Ihor Kolomoisky.
the US does contribute to the IMF so some of that 1.8 billion did come directly from US taxpayers. since there are other IMF members one would think they contributed a share also. however the US is the largest stakeholder at 164 billion today. in most cases the money is repaid via interest. still, the initial seed money to start the IMF did come directly from US tax revenue. i'm assuming the interest on investments has recouped that .. however the CBO does say that given the risks that countries receiving IMF can't repay them the cost is stated at about 2 cents on the dollar.
"Since 1945, when the International Monetary Fund (IMF) was established to promote global economic cooperation and stability, the United States has been its largest contributor. Today, the United States’ financial commitment to the IMF totals approximately $164 billion; that is the maximum amount that the IMF can draw from the United States to make loans to other IMF members.
The budgetary cost of participation in the IMF is, however, significantly smaller than the amount of that commitment. The United States and other countries earn interest on the portion of their commitment held by the IMF, and the IMF’s assets, including loans to other members, gold, and financial securities, are sufficient to allow it to return those funds to members in most circumstances. Nevertheless, a small risk remains that the IMF could incur losses on its lending so large that it could not repay the United States the full value of its commitment. Because of that risk, participation in the IMF has a cost to the United States, which CBO currently estimates to be about 2 cents per dollar committed."
everyone in Ukraine should be considered corrupt and everyone is going to take sides that either confirm or deny both sides of the story. this is why it was completely appropriate for Trump to temporarily hold back the aid until he had a chance to speak to the new president. if the current Ukraine president hadn't just been elected and thus the US had an established relationship you might make a case that Trump withheld the aid until Ukraine agreed to investigate Biden's son's role in Marissma but it's clear that's not what happened, Trump did not directly tell Ukraine "no investigation, no aid". He ASKED where of course the press in general and of course Schitthead Schiff et el want to misrepresent it as a demand. his "parody" bullshit was a classic example of trying to spin it that way like Trump is some Mob Boss. i've read several news reports stating Trump TOLD Ukraine's president to investigate however the Ukraine president himself has directly stated that he was not ordered or pressured to do so in order to get the aid.
+1
Quote:
U.S. Obscures Foreign Aid To Ukraine, But Here’s Where Some Goes
03/07/2014
WASHINGTON — As the United States readies $1 billion in loan guarantees to the new government in Ukraine, along with even more aid for reforming elections and cleaning up corruption, one thing is clear: The public is unlikely to know where that money is going for some time, if ever.
Since 1992, the U.S. has sent $3 billion to $5 billion in aid to Ukraine, with only cursory public disclosure. The U.S. State Department operates an online database, ForeignAssistance.gov, but names of foreign recipients are often left out, and entire sections are blank. Furthermore, the disclosure often comes long after the money has been distributed....
The USAID Country Development Strategy 2012-2016 for Ukraine explains that the agency provides extensive funding to support the Ukrainian Parliament (Verkhovna Rada) and “is also the largest donor in providing support to political parties and election observation.”
"Risky" is a euphemism. The money was stolen while Hunter and Devon were being paid $50 K per month to act as conduits for influence to key American politicians.
Do you believe the time and money spent by the Ukrainian government to investigate and prosecute a Biden more important than using their limited resources to combat an invasion by Russia.
absolutely - Russia is just the JV....
Biden abused his power as Vice-President but he can no longer be impeached for it...
