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cowboy8055 · 02-12-2013, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drluv1

The facts don't lie, more restrictive gun laws lead to less gun related homocide. I guess the other industrialized countries aren't too worried about their governments becoming tyrannical. Or maybe they realize, That you're probably a million times more likely to kill a loved one with a gun in your house than you are to stop a tyrannical government.Also, if you look, these other industrialized counties have more sensible PT laws which are the major driver of violence in the US.

Chicago has very tough gun laws and parts of that city are a war zone. Stricter gun laws only impact law abiding citizens. It will have little impact on gang bangers. Not sure how changing our illicit drug laws would turn out. Seems to me all drugs would have to be legalized to have any real effect on drug cartels. Don't think having more drug using citizens is a good thing.

GP · 02-12-2013, 02:01 PM

It would certainly thin out the gene pool.

Doove · 02-12-2013, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drluv1

Or maybe they realize, That you're probably a million times more likely to kill a loved one with a gun in your house than you are to stop a tyrannical government.

Great point. Can't wait for an opportunity to use it.

Doove · 02-12-2013, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboy8055

Chicago has very tough gun laws and parts of that city are a war zone.

So what? The problem with this argument is that the people who use it totally ignore the reality of the fact that with respect to gun laws, Chicago is pretty much beholden to the laws of the areas surrounding it. Tough gun laws in Chicago won't do much good if the people in Cicero can buy a gun from a vending machine. Not that they can, but you get my point.

As far as it being "a war zone", doesn't that pretty much refute the argument that a proliferation of guns will keep everyone on the straight and narrow?

drluv1 · 02-12-2013, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboy8055

Chicago has very tough gun laws and parts of that city are a war zone. Stricter gun laws only impact law abiding citizens. It will have little impact on gang bangers. Not sure how changing our illicit drug laws would turn out. Seems to me all drugs would have to be legalized to have any real effect on drug cartels. Don't think having more drug using citizens is a good thing.

Yes, Illinois has tough gun laws, BUT neighboring states don't, much to the disappointment of chicago residents. Without national background check standards and limits on purchases no policy will be very effective. In texas you are twice as more likely to get killed by a gun as you are in New york. Why would you expect that if PTs were legalized, use would go up, that hasn't been the case in places where it has been legalized? Moreover do you think the current "wars zones" in our innercities is acceptable? Please explain, other than outright prohibition, "stricter gun laws only impact law abiding citizens ".

GP · 02-12-2013, 02:52 PM

I have an idea, lets make a bunch of laws making PT's illegal. That will solve most of our problems. Then we can make a bunch of laws making guns illegal. That will definitely solve the rest of the problems.

drluv1 · 02-13-2013, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GP

I have an idea, lets make a bunch of laws making PT's illegal. That will solve most of our problems. Then we can make a bunch of laws making guns illegal. That will definitely solve the rest of the problems.

Mr. ambASSador , LOL, please learn how to read,LOL. Do you have ADD ?(forget to take your medicine ? LOL) or some other mental problem that doesn't allow you comprehend? Your thought process is so warped (LOL), paranoid (LOL) and out of touch (LOL) that you think your gun(s) are going to stop a tyrannical government. Also your avatar shows what a complete ambASSador you are, LOL.

cowboy8055 · 02-13-2013, 06:55 AM

If you really want to reduce gun violence you need to change the behavior of our culture. Creating stricter gun laws won't do that. You can't legislate a society into behaving better.

Doove · 02-13-2013, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboy8055

If you really want to reduce gun violence you need to change the behavior of our culture. Creating stricter gun laws won't do that. You can't legislate a society into behaving better.

While i agree on the first part of your comment, i think the remainder is yet another red herring, because yes, you can.

Cigarettes used to be so common and popular that you'd see late-night hosts and their guests smoking on TV. People would smoke in nearby cubicles at work. But over time, taking cigarette ads off TV, forcing no-smoking sections in restaurants, then ultimately banning smoking in restaurants and bars, and limiting where people can smoke at work, and now smoking is no longer so common or popular. It's still legal, but it's frowned upon and smokers are looked down on in ways they weren't before.

Laws can and do change culture.

offshoredrilling · 02-13-2013, 08:33 AM

Sell 'Em if You Got 'Em: Cigarette Taxes Help Make Smuggling ...

reason.com/blog/2012/09/.../cigarette-taxes-subsidize-the-black-mark
Sep 26, 2012 – Most of the cigarettes were sold in New York. ... Military commissaries and PX stores—where no federal tax ($1.08 per pack) is assessed—and ...

NEW YORK State is a enemy

offshoredrilling · 02-13-2013, 09:14 AM

GP · 02-13-2013, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drluv1

Mr. ambASSador , LOL, please learn how to read,LOL. Do you have ADD ?(forget to take your medicine ? LOL) or some other mental problem that doesn't allow you comprehend? Your thought process is so warped (LOL), paranoid (LOL) and out of touch (LOL) that you think your gun(s) are going to stop a tyrannical government. Also your avatar shows what a complete ambASSador you are, LOL.

my previous post was an attempt at humor lol

HlavinKitheri · 02-13-2013, 10:48 AM

Tough gun laws in municipalities like New York and Chicago are a response to - rather than a cause of - gun violence. They get passed because urban residents become deeply unhappy over being shot so often.

Unfortunately it's about as effective as having a "No Smoking" section on one side of a big restaurant dining room. Effective legislation would have to be nation-wide. Whole nations with tough gun laws enjoy very low homicide rates so long as they patrol their borders.

Mexican gun laws are somewhat stricter than those in the US, but they lack good interdiction at the border. That's why they're neck-deep in smuggled American firearms.

GP · 02-13-2013, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HlavinKitheri

Whole nations with tough gun laws enjoy very low homicide rates so long as they patrol their borders.

I liked all of your post except this part. I'm not so sure it is completely accurate.

cowboy8055 · 02-13-2013, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doove

Cigarettes used to be so common and popular that you'd see late-night hosts and their guests smoking on TV. People would smoke in nearby cubicles at work. But over time, taking cigarette ads off TV, forcing no-smoking sections in restaurants, then ultimately banning smoking in restaurants and bars, and limiting where people can smoke at work, and now smoking is no longer so common or popular. It's still legal, but it's frowned upon and smokers are looked down on in ways they weren't before.

Laws can and do change culture.

What you say regarding smoking probably has more to do with much better awareness of the health hazards associated with smoking. Public attitudes towards smoking changed before laws were enacted limiting public smoking. Smoking laws didn't change our behavior. The change in behavior already happened. The change in behavior created the need for new laws. Too bad many of our young people don't get it. Still way too many underage smokers.

Just don't see how laws change a culture. Most people don't need the penal code shoved in their face in order to behave properly. Now when you talk about reckless people with a violent tendency it's a different story. Do you think they give a hoot about what's in the law books. Changes in laws won't change them. In fact, criminal laws do a poor job of deterring crime. They just make for craftier criminals. And when it comes to crimes of passion everything goes out the window. Laws reflect the beliefs of a culture. Laws are created because of the beliefs of society demand it. Laws don't change people; people change the laws.