Afghan massacre

[WTF]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

You need to quit making stuff up, knocking it down and congratulating yourself. I never said that, and they are two different situations. You must just enjoy being disagreeable, because you don't make much sense.

You said

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

The soldier who went crazy is neither criminal nor hero. .

I said with that kind of logic, everybody could have an excuse to murder women and children.

He is a criminal.

We can argue the why's but murdering 16 innocent people is criminal. If you do not believe me, ask the Army. There will be a trial soon enough.

Now it might be shown that he has a brain tumor much like the shooter in Austin Texas many moons ago but that still does not make the act less criminal. It would help us understand why but my guess is we will never understand the why. Time will tell. Tragic situtation for all involved.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by WTF

You said

I said with that kind of logic, everybody could have an excuse to murder women and children.

He is a criminal.

We can argue the why's but murdering 16 innocent people is criminal. If you do not believe me, ask the Army. There will be a trial soon enough.

Now it might be shown that he has a brain tumor much like the shooter in Austin Texas many moons ago but that still does not make the act less criminal. It would help us understand why but my guess is we will never understand the why. Time will tell. Tragic situtation for all involved.

I don't know about military law but the critical question for non military law is supposed to be the ability to know that what you're doing is wrong. That's supposed to be the standard for not guilty by reason of insanity.

It doesn't sound to be like he was so out of it that he didn't know what he was doing was wrong. But it does seem like he behaved in a way that was not consistant with prior behavior. It sounds to me like he snapped. I think the fact that he had some sort of brain injury will be enough for him to avoid the death penalty. I just hope they don't execute him to appease the Islamic mob.

[cptjohnstone]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

I don't know about military law but the critical question for non military law is supposed to be the ability to know that what you're doing is wrong. That's supposed to be the standard for not guilty by reason of insanity.

It doesn't sound to be like he was so out of it that he didn't know what he was doing was wrong. But it does seem like he behaved in a way that was not consistant with prior behavior. It sounds to me like he snapped. I think the fact that he had some sort of brain injury will be enough for him to avoid the death penalty. I just hope they don't execute him to appease the Islamic mob.

military law is more just than civil law, trust me, and no I will not swallow, I will bite it off

[I B Hankering]

ARTICLE 118. MURDER

Any person subject to this chapter whom without justification or excuse, unlawfully kills a human being, when he- -

(1) has a premeditated design to kill;
(2) intends to kill or inflict great bodily harm;
(3) is engaged in an act which is inherently dangerous to others and evinces a wanton disregard of human life; or
(4) is engaged in the perpetration or attempted perpetration of burglary, sodomy, rape, robbery, or aggravated arson;

is guilty of murder, and shall suffer such punishment as a court-martial may direct, except that if found guilty under clause (1) or (4), he shall suffer death or imprisonment for life as a court-martial may direct.

[Jackie S]

The Vietnam war gave us Lt William Calley and the My Lia Massacre.

Even though Calley was convicted of murder by a military court, he ended up spending what amounted to less than 4 years in prison. In the end, political pressure trumped everything. The American Public overwhelmingly felt that Lt Calley was as much a victim as were the 29+ dead Vietnamese he had ordered killed.

So don't just assume that this is a wrap.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

The Vietnam war gave us Lt William Calley and the My Lia Massacre.

Even though Calley was convicted of murder by a military court, he ended up spEnding what amounted to less than 4 years in prison. In the end, political pressure trumped everything. The American Public overwhelmingly felt that Lt Calley was as much a victim as were the 29+ dead Vietnamese he had ordered killed.

So don't just assume that this is a wrap.

Last man executed by the Army for desertion occurred during WWII, but murder is a different question.

BTW, the WO who landed his helicopter and intervened between Calley's platoon. He was a hero.

[I B Hankering]

He died six years ago -- his name was Hugh Thompson.

[JD Barleycorn]

Your Texas Tower sniper was named Charles Whitman.

Clause 1: Premeditation, a good attorney would use this approach to show that Bales was not right with himself and could therefore no use premeditation.

I would still like to hear an explanation before I condemn.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

ARTICLE 118. MURDER

Any person subject to this chapter whom without justification or excuse, unlawfully kills a human being, when he- -

(1) has a premeditated design to kill;
(2) intends to kill or inflict great bodily harm;
(3) is engaged in an act which is inherently dangerous to others and evinces a wanton disregard of human life; or
(4) is engaged in the perpetration or attempted perpetration of burglary, sodomy, rape, robbery, or aggravated arson;

is guilty of murder, and shall suffer such punishment as a court-martial may direct, except that if found guilty under clause (1) or (4), he shall suffer death or imprisonment for life as a court-martial may direct.

The definition of murder you site says "without jurisdiction or excuse"
I suppose that a defence attorney would argue that mental illness was an "excuse" or mitigating factor.

A paranoid schizophrenic that had a complete psychotic breakdown would have an "excuse". The possible mental impairment in this case does not appear to be that profound, but my guess is that's going to be his only possible defence.

I think that the brain injury aspect of his mental condition is probably less important than the effect of post traumatic stress disorder. Given his background and what happened it sure looks like he was basically driven mad by the enormous amount of suffering he had witnessed.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

The definition of murder you site says "without jurisdiction or excuse"
I suppose that a defence attorney would argue that mental illness was an "excuse" or mitigating factor. If he expects any clemency for the accused, he has to. The facts and evidence against him are too overwhelming.

A paranoid schizophrenic that had a complete psychotic breakdown would have an "excuse". The possible mental impairment in this case does not appear to be that profound, but my guess is that's going to be his only possible defence.

I think that the brain injury aspect of his mental condition is probably less important than the effect of post traumatic stress disorder. Given his background and what happened it sure looks like he was basically driven mad by the enormous amount of suffering he had witnessed.

.

[I B Hankering]

CORRECTION: "The facts and evidence against him *appear to be* too overwhelming.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Your Texas Tower sniper was named Charles Whitman.

Clause 1: Premeditation, a good attorney would use this approach to show that Bales was not right with himself and could therefore no use premeditation.

I would still like to hear an explanation before I condemn.

go back to sleep jd ...

[JD Barleycorn]

Ohh, is that a problem CJ? I want to hear the story, in keeping with American values, and you have a snarky remark. What do you have against American jurisprudence values?

[CJ7]

mea culpa JD

I forgot Chuck was a Marine

[dilbert firestorm]

I find this interesting.

according to reports, this sgt doesn't remember exactly what he did, has no memory of the shooting. I understand that he was drinking alcohol on the base and managed to slip out. his drinking apparently brought the worst out of him in the form of berserker rage.

best part is, is the afghanis, they have trouble accepting that 1 man killed 16 people, they insist that more than one soldier was involved. I guess they've never encountered one capable of berserker rage in their culture.