Reinventing your self an inquiry into ethics

[Camille]

There's a lot of supposition in this thread but not a lot more.

For me, if it's just a price point issue I couldn't care less. Why do I care how another woman runs her business/markets herself? If she is hiding something more sinister then it usually comes out one way or another at some point even if only back channel. You can't control other people...only how you react to them.

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by Camille

I don't get this at all. Instead of all the coy comments why don't you just call the people out that you speak of? If you have proof that they are one and the same person what's the problem with doing so? Or am I missing something? If it bothers you that much go for it....assuming you know for sure!?!? There's a lot of supposition in this thread but not a lot more.

For me, if it's just a price point issue I couldn't care less. Why do I care how another woman runs her business/markets herself? If she is hiding something more sinister then it usually comes out one way or another at some point even if only back channel. You can't control other people...only how you react to them.

I think, after 105 posts, you are actually answering the OP's question: should you out the "name changer"???

Paraphasing, I'm hearing you, in your view, saying, "Sure"

[WTF]

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

I think, after 105 posts, you are actually answering the OP's question: should you out the "name changer"???

Paraphasing, I'm hearing you, in your view, saying, "Sure"

Should you out a crazy beeeetch?

At your own peril my friend at your own peril. That is what back channels are for and that is wtf the term 'live and learn' is meant for. Folks that ain't privy to the back channels gotta 'live n learn!'.

You can't warn the world about ever crazy MoFo, only your 'friends' , even then it is a catchy thing.

I'm not sure what Cammie was saying but I sure the fluck can not make a blanket statement on crazy folks...that'd be just crazy I say, craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazeeeeee!

You ever heard that BuckCherry song?

http://vodpod.com/watch/749168-buckc...tch-uncensored

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by Wayward

Nina that's a great point for a different threAD, this one is mine
?

sorry Wayward, didn`t mean to hijack..:-)

[Camille]

The reason I edited that post was two fold.

One of the reasons being (as my post now reads) if it's just a rates issue who cares? Spend time building your own business not tearing someone elses down.

Second and more important point...
I would think VERY carefully about outting anyone..even a nom de plume that is another nom de plume. Why? I just heard that a lady was outted last week (I don't know the details) and was consequently murdered by the person she was outted to...as were her children. I haven't had time to respond to the email I just got and I don't know the details of the outting but I would certainly not encourage anyone to out even a duplicitious nom de plume after hearing that. Frightening news regardless of why and how she was outted in my opinion. Terribly sad news. As much as I friggin hate coy comments that allude to stuff, I cannot support the rolling stone that has the potential to gather that kind of momemntum ending in such tragic circumstances. I think most women have been played by another woman at some point if they have been around long enough. When that happens, she will show her arse at some point without anyone needing to pull her knickers down.

C

[MaxiMilyen]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

I agree why? What sense does it make to maintain two identical brands. I can actually understand having a high-price and a low-price brand. Some people thinks that's wrong, but to me it makes good business sense.

Can anyone think of a good reason to do two identicals?

No, I don't understand doing that, nor can I think of a reason this would occur, unless the lady is just bored and enjoys having different names, sites, emails, etc. to keep up with. From what I've observed, offering different services and rates would be the most prevalent reasons a provider would have multiple names. Actually, I am creating a new persona to travel, just for rate purposes. I simply need to make a bit more to cover those expenses and be able to indulge myself a bit while away from home without taking away from my normal income. No biggie, or at least I don't think so.

As to those who just need to make a break from their old names due to mistakes they've made, sure, we all make mistakes. Depends on the sincerity of the individual in facing those mistakes whether they should be helped in starting with a new name, but we almost all have gents who are willing to help us when needed, no matter what we do. (Yet another chance to thank the many men who are supportive of what we do. Thank you.) I've seen and heard some wild and crazy things, since wandering into this community, that I never would have imagined providers or hobbyists would do.

IMO, outting someone is the worst thing a provider can do. Not sure that deserves another chance unless there are some very serious extenuating circumstances.

[NinaBrooke]

dp

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by WTF

Should you out a crazy beeeetch?

At your own peril my friend at your own peril. That is what back channels are for and that is wtf the term 'live and learn' is meant for. Folks that ain't privy to the back channels gotta 'live n learn!'.

You can't warn the world about ever crazy MoFo, only your 'friends' , even then it is a catchy thing.

I'm not sure what Cammie was saying but I sure the fluck can not make a blanket statement on crazy folks...that'd be just crazy I say, craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazeeeeee!

You ever heard that BuckCherry song?

http://vodpod.com/watch/749168-buckc...tch-uncensored

Originally Posted by Camille

The reason I edited that post was two fold.

One of the reasons being (as my post now reads) if it's just a rates issue who cares? Spend time building your own business not tearing someone elses down.

Second and more important point...
I would think VERY carefully about outting anyone..even a nom de plume that is another nom de plume. Why? I just heard that a lady was outted last week (I don't know the details) and was consequently murdered by the person she was outted to...as were her children. I haven't had time to respond to the email I just got and I don't know the details of the outting but I would certainly not encourage anyone to out even a duplicitious nom de plume after hearing that. Frightening news regardless of why and how she was outted in my opinion. Terribly sad news. As much as I friggin hate coy comments that allude to stuff, I cannot support the rolling stone that has the potential to gather that kind of momemntum ending in such tragic circumstances. I think most women have been played by another woman at some point if they have been around long enough. When that happens, she will show her arse at some point without anyone needing to pull her knickers down.

C

I was not expressing my own view but noting that Camille finally answered the OP's ?

That said she changed her mind

Tomorrow morning? Who knows.

And yes WTF, my sig line is available for rent....

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by Camille

I would think VERY carefully about outting anyone..even a nom de plume that is another nom de plume. Why? I just heard that a lady was outted last week (I don't know the details) and was consequently murdered by the person she was outted to...as were her children.

C

Oh my god!!!!!!!!!!!! That is horrible horrible!!!!!!! Well my best girlfriend and best working collegue was stalked by a client all over the place and finally ended up in a coma and thrown out the window in germany. Court is still proceeding, the trial was recently, its not over yet. It happened in 2009 and she is lucky to be alive, and due to some miracle she can walk and is not as badly injured as one might suspect. He kept her hostage in his apartement, threatened to cut her in pieces if she made a peep and abused her in the most horrible way, she tried to flee by jumping out of the 4th floor appartement. What crazy people are around. Unbelievable. The guy has already murdered one woman (not in red light district , so no one can say this happens to escorts only) and was set free after serving 6 years... Its crazy....

Who was that guy? Was he a stalker?

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by WTF

Should you out a crazy beeeetch?

d

I require heavy screening and as a result avoid most of the crazy beeeetches.....

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by Camille

T
One of the reasons being (as my post now reads) if it's just a rates issue who cares? Spend time building your own business not tearing someone elses down.

correct :-) who cares?

[Camille]

Nina, that's awful. Thrown out of a window? Jesus Christ.

I don't know much more at the minute about this incident, it was essentially a 'Did you know this lady?" question as I have traveled to where she was located a couple of times. I didn't know her..but I'm still completely shocked at this.
Having never really cared that much about whether other women have multiple id's I have never really given thought until posting in this thread about how outting two nom de plumes as one person could realistically be a starting point for something like that to happen. I feel shit actually now for making my initial suggestion. I guess I had only really thought about outting as in outting real info..and how dangerous that is...not really about how it could all start with something less nefarious. Ugh. And you are absolutely right Nina, it doesn't just happen to the crazy women. I don't believe that for a second.

xx

[Sisyphus]

Originally Posted by Wayward

Reinventing your self an inquiry into ethics.

This issue was touched on in Austin and the agenda got in the way of what seemed to me to be a very interesting topic. Most of us believe in second chances, hell third chances and even more sometimes. But at what point do the transgressions of the past become serious enough to warrant being linked to a new identity.

It's an interesting question & probably an even tougher call on a case-by-case basis. This tends to be a rather spirited & independent-minded community that functions best on a live & let live mentality under most circumstances. If a provider wants to manage multiple personas with different target markets, that just goes with the territory. There are also risks that are run on both sides of the equation. Lines get blurred...someone gets indiscreet...and the only way to return to the playground is as a new persona. I think it happens a lot more often than anyone cares to admit.

Originally Posted by Wayward

Instead I would like to focus on pretty serious mistakes, which are of ones own choosing. At what level do they become serious enough to where most or at least a significant portion of the people here believe it is acceptable either in a back channel or more openly to link those acts or former nom de guerre with the new persona.

Again, it's damn tough to find much of a consensus as to what constitutes a "serious" mistake. Somewhere is a line between being stupid & being dangerous...good luck on getting a majority to agree where it is!

Presuming that could be done, I would suspect that those who are infatuated/inthralled/engaged with someone's persona du jour would want to know that it's a "reincarnation" of one with a troubling past. I would imagine the ladies would want to know that this year's Prince Charming is last year's shorter, stalker...or worse. Likewise, I would suspect the fellas would want to hear that this year's hot lick is last year's blackmailer or thief.

The problem, as I see it, is that putting those kinds of allegations out there is pretty serious as well. If it can't be proven, it can harm reputations needlessly...not to mention the reputation of the one who makes the allegation without being able to back it up.

An ethical quandary as well...

[Wayward]

Originally Posted by Wayward

Nina that's a great point for a different threAD, this one is mine

Originally Posted by ninasastri

sorry Wayward, didn`t mean to hijack..:-)

As you'll almost always see in the OP of any threAD we start, I don't believe there is really an off topic post or a hijack. Sometimes the best point is made going off topic and yours was a great one.

That being said I also believe the threAD starter bears some responsibility to steer the conversation back on to some topic even if it isn't the original one. That's all I was trying to do. No harm, no foul on your part. Plus I wanted to thank you for letting me quote myself and OHW again.

Originally Posted by onehitwonder
...if someone knowingly commits an act such as Dannie has mentioned in the above quote, should they be allowed to remain a member of this board? To socialize, advertise and quite possibly use it to do harm to someone else? So do they get to change their name, their location, maybe their look, hang up a new shingle and back to business as usual while some poor guy is somewhere trying to put his life/family/job back together?

Originally Posted by Wayward

That is the topic perfectly distilled in OHW clarity. What I was trying to get from everyone and we seem to lack some Diamond ovaries and Tuxedo testicles, is what to do next? If that is the bar who holds it and what do we as a community do when some one tries to slither under it?

Let me pick on Camille for a moment because her posts were great. She went in two different directions and then came to a conclusion that I share up to a point, I don't want to "out" anyone. Unless and this is why I'm quoting the snot out of myself and onehitter, unless there is an overwhelming reason to do so. As some of you may have guessed I have been presented with such a situation.

Camille seems to think that the goal of all this is to justify outing someone's personal information and that is just not the case. It is about highlighting a pattern of behaviors that would trouble current and potential new clients of a active provider that has distanced herself from those behaviors by changing names. While I can not speak for all providers but some of the "women we love" would be very offended that their sterling reputations that have been won by working under one name are diminished by others that have in my opinion gamed the system.

As those of you that are unlucky enough to know me understand, while I will seek everyone's council at the end of the day, will stand on my hind legs and make the call. Then fade the results of that action, what ever they may be. I have a pretty good idea what I am going to do, before ever starting this discussion. Because as I was shocked to learn, I am not the king of the world or the smartest person in this space time continuum it seemed wise to seek the thoughts of some folks in 'this thing of ours' I do respect and value.

I'll also ask WTF

There is a post a few pages back by Rudyard K that really did make me stop and think for a bit, that is what I wanted to get out of this threAD a moment of reflection. If you missed it is on page five. There are a couple of great one's on Page 4 by Dannie.

For RK we agree one can never know what is in another's heart. At what point does that simple truth have to step aside for the good of the community?

For Dannie that is exactly the kind of thing that I wanted to discuss in this threAD:

I understand the reasons for name changes and yes I believe some transgressions should be forgiven. Blackmail and outing are two unforgivable offenses, in my opinion, and I think turnabout is fair play. Shame them and name them!

I would add cash and dash or any other kind of serious theft and we are not talking about small unrepaid provider "loans" but the kind of thing Dannie goes on about in her next post.

Sisyphus just defined my ethical quandary and is at more or less the same place I was when starting all this.

After picking on WTF it's time to in closing agree with him, we have discussed privately dealing with folks that are sanity challenged and he is right the back channel doesn't suck for the very issues we are attempting to explore here. However sometimes and in some cases perhaps that isn't enough and I would ask him and everyone else what might those be?

Again I don't expect a definitive answer and am not the only one privy to this information. So this discussion is not just for me or the indivual posters but is as the topic stated an inquiry into ethics.

[Naomi4u]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

Honey, don`t joke on that one... I knew a provider who used her real name for signing up her homepage (lookup on whois) and then was seriously surprised how anyone could have found out her identity..........
And that is someone who claims to be ivy league educated on her homepage ;-))))))))))) and smarter than the rest of the providers ...... so you never know....

I almost spilled my coke laughing. I know exactly who your talking about. On her website, doesn't it say that she's "intelligent, well-educated"?... LOL!

You would even think people would be smart enough to use Whois privacy when registering their domain name but nope. *sigh*