I can't believe this hasn't been discussed yet

[WTF]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

please point out an exact quote of what i typed that is bs and i will get back to you

dot dot let me give what may be helpful advice. It is much easier to point out to nevergivesit what he has typed that is NOT bs than what is.

[..]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

please point out an exact quote of what i typed that is bs and i will get back to you

"islam's god has different attributes than the god of the bible."

This is really BS. sorry.

Originally Posted by WTF

dot dot let me give what may be helpful advice. It is much easier to point out to nevergivesit what he has typed that is NOT bs than what is.

LOL! probably true.

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by ..

"islam's god has different attributes than the god of the bible."

This is really BS. sorry.


LOL! probably true.

speak of things you really have read about..not what you feel or what you have heard

[PSD]

Islam's God teaches them to like virgins...which is probably why there are none on this board.

...just sayin'...

[..]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

speak of things you really have read about..not what you feel or what you have heard

كبير النفس

[ANONONE]

Regardless of whether this group wanting the mosque built has any connection whatsoever to radical factions of the faith, there is no denying historic tradition. As a culture, this group of people choose, like other cultures, to erect an edification in celebration of victory over an enemy.

This is too close for comfort or decency.

Sure they may have a civil right to build on that site and worship there, but is it a good idea or even a moral one?

Probably not.

If for no other reason, keep in mind hundreds of the victims of the Tower Attacks have never been recovered and it is scientific fact that their pulverized and aerated remains became a part of those dust clouds that billowed in between the buildings of Manhattan during the aftermath. In my mind, the entire region is now hallowed ground--several city blocks in multiple directions--and any new construction should be avoided out of respect to the city wide burial grounds. My position is an unpopular one, but I think there should be a moratorium on building much of anything in that area for a long time.

Ponder this. . .

Why has it taken over eight years to erect a decent memorial to the folks that lost their lives that day, but all this uproar is being raised over a mosque that will most likely be built anyway, and probably in less than 14 months?

[Guest083011]

Originally Posted by WTF

if that was the case those church folks that protest at soldiers funerals should be the very first thrown in jail. Talk about bad taste, those folks take the cake.

Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka Kansas. Really a hateful bunch. The reason the Patriot Guard Riders came in existance is because of these twits. PGR acts as escorts (not that kind) for military funerals when Westboro threatens to show up. The create an honor guard or a "wall" between the funeral participants and the protestors. And while it is legal for them to protest it is also legal to make as difficult as possible for them to protest. Usually LEO assists in helping isolate the protestors, too. In Canada they denied the Westboro people from entering the country (I knew I liked Canada!!! That and PEI oysters. )
http://www.patriotguard.org/
They will also act as an Honor Guard for returning troops and funerals for any military who have passed away (Vietnam, Korea, WW II, etc.).

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

not to be overly argumentative..but you are just wrong.

ostensibly to the casual observer, your comment may seem correct as some of the same characters are claimed by islam as do appear in the Bible and there is a claim by islam to be the "correction" of the perversions in the old and even the new testament, errors supposedly by mistake and on purpose made by the jewish scribes and also made by new testament scholars. although the jewish scribes were so meticulous as to never ever make a mistake in transcription, not even one little jot or tittle, and agree back to the dead sea scrolls and the new testament today has been agreed back to the earliest fragments of new testament writings and agree to those earliest writings...


but the real test of whether the same God is worshiped by all three or anyones god is the same god, is, what are the attributes of that god? truly, if a god's attributes, worshipped by different religions, are not the same, then those religions do not worship the same god. it is another god. islam's god has different attributes than the god of the bible.

Originally Posted by ..

sorry this is BS. have you ever read the Qur'an?

Read it and you will notice that it's more similar to the Bible than you have thought.

All three Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) share not only the same God but also many of their prophets.

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

no i havent but i have read books on the topic

the topic of attributes

certainly there are some same events or characters but with twists and turns and changes



please point out an exact quote of what i typed that is bs and i will get back to you

you added to your post so im adding to mine...the God worshiped is different as his judgements, characteristics, care, love, long suffering, and just about every other attribute is different

Historically, it is the SAME God who is worshiped by all three religions. There is no denying the historical fact.

The only thing different in these "gods" is the glasses through which you see "them." The attributes humans believe their God to have are only the ones that are seen through human eyes. Whether God actually bears any relation to a human viewpoint is unknowable. So, God can only have the attributes that we as humans give him. Which may account for some difference between the religions.

However, historically, it is the same God, and that's a fact.

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

but the real test of whether the same God is worshiped by all three or anyones god is the same god, is, what are the attributes of that god?

Since all Gods are imaginary, comparing their imaginary attributes is rather a tedious and time wasting task. But as a matter of historical fact, the "God" that is worshiped by Islam, Judaism, and Christianity is the God of Abraham.

[PSD]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

Since all Gods are imaginary, comparing their imaginary attributes is rather a tedious and time wasting task. But as a matter of historical fact, the "God" that is worshiped by Islam, Judaism, and Christianity is the God of Abraham.

My imaginary God can kick your imaginary God's ass! Promise!

...lil tongue in cheek tonight is all...

[DFW5Traveler]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

Since all Gods are imaginary, comparing their imaginary attributes is rather a tedious and time wasting task. But as a matter of historical fact, the "God" that is worshiped by Islam, Judaism, and Christianity is the God of Abraham.

Regardless of the fact that some of us do not have a faith in any god, would you deny the one thing that does keep a lot of people morally grounded, even if most are hypocrites?

Does it affect your life in any way for those people to believe in something you or I are incapable of believing in? Is it your job to spread the un-gospel?

If the current regime believes his faith is under attack would it be far fetched to say that he might be practicing taqiyya as preached in the Qur'an? The practice of concealing one’s faith in dangerous circumstances, which deems blameless those who disguise their beliefs in such cases in Q 16:106. The practice of taqiyya in difficult circumstances is considered legitimate by Muslims of various persuasions. Sunni and Shi’i commentators alike observe that Q 16:106 in particular refers to the case of ‘Ammar b. Yasir, who was forced to renounce his beliefs under physical duress and torture.

They, the left, do believe the wars in southwest asia are against islam and not al'Qaeda/Taliban. Even though the serbian and somlian incursions were started to protect islamic people.

Everyone has their own spin or belief. However, believing one group of people without doing your own research, or having blind faith in that party does nothing but further idealogical agendas. I am neither democrat nor republican. Casting dispersions against the people who do not believe the same as you without looking internally shows true bias. I am conservative, but even I can see the ills of the republican party.

As an non-believing attorney, does it ever bother you that witnesses are forced to swear to tell the truth on something you don't believe in. And if they tell a lie while under that oath, they are penalized under threat of fines or imprisonment? What about the oath of office and why aren't politicians held to the same standard when swearing fealty to the US Constitution?

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Historically, it is the SAME God who is worshiped by all three religions. There is no denying the historical fact.

The only thing different in these "gods" is the glasses through which you see "them." The attributes humans believe their God to have are only the ones that are seen through human eyes. Whether God actually bears any relation to a human viewpoint is unknowable. So, God can only have the attributes that we as humans give him. Which may account for some difference between the religions.

However, historically, it is the same God, and that's a fact.

You are correct; the root of all three religions is the God of Abraham. I do not think that they are now different paths to the same end. I also think that in the last 1,500 years since Mohammad and the last 2,000 years since Jesus, the three religions have changed so intrinsically that they have three different Gods. If at least some historically didn’t agree with me there wouldn’t have been crusades, forced conversion from Judaism to Christianity or forced conversions from Christianity and Zoroastrianism to Islam.

In any event, mine and others’ views on the nuances, differences and similarities of the great monotheistic religions are irrelevant. What is relevant is that the United States of America was attached on September 11, 2001 by Islamic extremists, that are still at war with us, for political reasons: American presence in the Middle-East (namely Saudi Arabia) and US support of Israel. I do not think a mosque should be at GZ any more than I think that there should be an uninvited American presence in Nagasaki or Hiroshima.

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

Since all Gods are imaginary, comparing their imaginary attributes is rather a tedious and time wasting task. But as a matter of historical fact, the "God" that is worshiped by Islam, Judaism, and Christianity is the God of Abraham.

the belief that God is imaginary or not does not make the understanding of the issue any more tedious than blithely stating without discernment that the God of islam is the same God as the God of the Bible (now that is tedious).

While it is beyond the scope of this room to compare the verses of God's attributes in the Qur'an to the Bible's understanding of God's nature, after 9-11 occured i took it upon myself to read books about islam by bernard lewis and others including books by Christian authors regarding the differences, including one book that had a verse by verse comparison of God's attributes in each.

arabs do stem from Abraham, via his pre-emption of a promise to him resulting in his child Ismael with Hagar an egyptian maidservant, the hebrews via his promised child Issac with his wife Sarah. the qur'an causes resulting promises and events to resound to their benefit and then proceeds to "correct" other things many thousands of years later. Christians accept the veracity of the old testament and the nature of God therein disclosed, the main difference being in the understanding that Jesus is the messiah.



While politicians, for purposes of diplomacy, make incorrect or incomplete statements regarding Abrahamic roots to equate a commonality in the belief in the same God, and regardless of buffoonish comments by people like Bill O'Reilly or Sally Quinn (the Washington Post 'religious" editor) who's understanding is cursory and comic bookish at best, or the Headline in your favorite newspaper (the source of most peoples understanding) there is a vast difference as understood by commited religionists.

[MrGiz]

Can someone please show me a verse from the Qur'an which expresses Reciprocity? You know.... that common little theme which every other world theism/religion is based on?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxFzFIDbKpg

The answers are easy.... they have every right to build their Cultural Center...... go for it!!

Giz

[AdventureAdams]

I think this explains everything I want to say perfectly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Muxoo0