Afghan massacre

[CuteOldGuy]

Yeah, what Joe said.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

The Laffer Curve simply states that at some level of taxation, revenue will begin to decrease. If you think we are on that side of the curve, then reducing taxes will increase revenue. If we are on the other side of the curve, raising taxes will increase revenue. I think most people think we are on the side of the curve that indicates that revenue will increase if we lower taxes.

I think a lot of people reject the notion of getting out of a recession by lowering taxes because it seems counter intuitive. We're in a recession, consequently revenues are down, consequently deficit spending is up, so people think we need to increase taxes to provide additional revenue to decrease the deficit. On the face of it that seems sort of reasonable. Except that raising taxes in an economic downturn is the worst thing you can do. It shrinks the economy which further reduces revenue, which makes the deficit higher not lower. The real nightmare is when the leftists double down and raise taxes even higher after the first tax increase failed to work. You get caught in a downward spiral. It's a little like the old practice of blood letting. Doctors used to routinely treat their patients by draining off blood. This actually made the patient sicker, so of course they drained more blood very often resutling in the doctor killing the patient.

Socialist economic theory is quackery. It's fiscal malpractice.

[Cpalmson]

How did this thread morph into economics 101? Back on topic-- Muslim terrorists= bad. American military=good. Current Commander in Chief=Idiot. Sgt accused of killing 16=Hero. It is a digital world. 1s and 0s.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by Cpalmson

How did this thread morph into economics 101? Back on topic-- Muslim terrorists= bad. American military=good. Current Commander in Chief=Idiot. Sgt accused of killing 16=Hero. It is a digital world. 1s and 0s.

Sorry about that. Sometimes I get carried away. Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

Sorry about that. Sometimes I get carried away. Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

what would that be, trying to peer over the stupid fence Cpal has erected around him?

[WTF]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

I absolutely understand it. Art Laffer said that the income tax can be too low or too high. If you tax at a one percent rate you won't get sufficient revenue. If you tax at ninety percent rate you won't either. The goal is to find the optimal rate.

The whole point of the Laffer Curve (supply side economics) is to not tax at a rate that is so high that its negative effect on economic growth produces a net loss. No that is not the whole point, that is one point.

I do think a lot of conservatives just robotically respond that a lower income tax rate will always produce an increase in revenue. You think? I know they do. They prove it ever day on cable TV. Art Laffer never said. Even John Maynard Keynes (FDR's favorite economist) ackowledged that the income tax can be so high that it results in a decrease in revenue. Of course but for mnow let us stick to Laffer.

John Maynard Keynes was once in a conference with a room full of fellow economists. He said that he believed he was the only non-Keynesian in the room. The point being that his actual theories had been so completely misunderstood and bastardized that they no longer reflected his core beliefs. To some extent, I think that Art Laffer must feel the same way. It might interest you to know that Art Laffer thought that Bill Clinton did a great job with the economy. That one has me a little puzzled.

Why does that one have you puzzeled? Because Clinton raised taxes? That is actually wtf Keneyes and Laffer say should be done in good times if you are wanting to pay down debt.

Like I said, you do not have a very good understanding of the Laffer Curve or you would not be puzzled. But I will say you understand better than most.

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

The Laffer Curve simply states that at some level of taxation, revenue will begin to decrease. If you think we are on that side of the curve, then reducing taxes will increase revenue. If we are on the other side of the curve, raising taxes will increase revenue. I think most people think we are on the side of the curve that indicates that revenue will increase if we lower taxes.

That is just to simplistic. We have various tax brackets. To say they all need to go either up or down is idiotic without stating that each needs its own seperate look. You need to look at each bracket individually.

Like I said, folks do not have a very good grasp of our current tax system

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Cpalmson

How did this thread morph into economics 101? Back on topic-- Muslim terrorists= bad. American military=good. Current Commander in Chief=Idiot. Sgt accused of killing 16=Hero. It is a digital world. 1s and 0s.

A soldier that get drunk and kills women and children and puts other troops in harms way by his actions is not a hero in my book.

I respect you right to write and read you own book(s) and have your own standards.

That is a great quality about this country.

We do not have to all agree.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

I think a lot of people reject the notion of getting out of a recession by lowering taxes because it seems counter intuitive. We're in a recession, consequently revenues are down, consequently deficit spending is up, so people think we need to increase taxes to provide additional revenue to decrease the deficit. What has been proposed is a tax on the wealthier among us. On the face of it that seems sort of reasonable. Yes taxing people that are doing great is not a bad idea. Except that raising taxes in an economic downturn is the worst thing you can do. Now back to reality, the vast majority of poor and middle class folks actually recieved a tax break in the form of less SS deduction. We can argue the merits of that if you like but that is a reduction in taxes. Second, Obama did not want to raise taxes on the middle class. It shrinks the economy which further reduces revenue, which makes the deficit higher not lower. How do you propose to lower the deficit and not raise taxes? How, please tell me that bit of historic advice. The real nightmare is when the leftists double down and raise taxes even higher after the first tax increase failed to work. What tax increase are you talking about? We have had no tax increase. You get caught in a downward spiral. It's a little like the old practice of blood letting. Doctors used to routinely treat their patients by draining off blood. This actually made the patient sicker, so of course they drained more blood very often resutling in the doctor killing the patient.

Socialist economic theory is quackery. It's fiscal malpractice.

There is no such thing as Socialist economic theory. You saying there is , is quackery. All taxes are Socialist in nature. Remember that. Not paying for things you want(deficit spending) is quackery. Starting two wars and giving the nation a tax break is just idiotic. That is wtf the GOP led congress and White House did.

[CuteOldGuy]

The soldier who went crazy is neither criminal nor hero. In a way, he is a casualty of war himself. We can't put people in that environment and expect them to act rationally at all times. The crime is what our government expects of these people, to fight a war with no definition of victory, and no plausible reason for being there. Bush and Obama should be on trial, not this soldier.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

The soldier who went crazy is neither criminal nor hero. In a way, he is a casualty of war himself. We can't put people in that environment and expect them to act rationally at all times. The crime is what our government expects of these people, to fight a war with no definition of victory, and no plausible reason for being there. Bush and Obama should be on trial, not this soldier.

I guess that ever person that grew up in the hood and killed innocent people is not responsible for their actions because they had it so tough growing up?

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by WTF

There is no such thing as Socialist economic theory. You saying there is , is quackery. All taxes are Socialist in nature. Remember that. Not paying for things you want(deficit spending) is quackery. Starting two wars and giving the nation a tax break is just idiotic. That is wtf the GOP led congress and White House did.

So the economists that run the economies of socialist countries are what kind of economists, supply siders? You have to be careful what you write, otherwise you step in it. I'm posting these links in the interest of furthering your clearly limited knowledge in this area. It should be fun watching you try to weasel your way out of this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_economics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confere...ist_Economists

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by WTF

I guess that ever person that grew up in the hood and killed innocent people is not responsible for their actions because they had it so tough growing up?

You need to quit making stuff up, knocking it down and congratulating yourself. I never said that, and they are two different situations. You must just enjoy being disagreeable, because you don't make much sense.

[CJ7]

call it what you want ... trickle down economics has never worked long term, and never will. Ragan and Bush proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by CJ7

call it what you want ... trickle down economics has never worked long term, and never will. Ragan and Bush proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

So the economists that run the economies of socialist countries are what kind of economists, supply siders? You have to be careful what you write, otherwise you step in it. I'm posting these links in the interest of furthering your clearly limited knowledge in this area. It should be fun watching you try to weasel your way out of this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_economics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confere...ist_Economists

An economist does not run a country, politicians do. They do what they do to stay in power.

Do you understand that all taxes are socialist in nature?

We are a socialist country in many regards. We just socialized the losses of the banks back in 2008.

China has many free market concepts. Whay does that make them?

Your view of the world in not the actual reality of how it works.

Just like your view of this phoney supply side crap.

But I was talking about the Laffer Curve earlier.


Only if you realize that the Optimum tax rate changes constantly would you truly have a grasp of wtf the Laffer Curve is. For folks to try and plug in the Reagan formula shows their lack of understanding in taxation.



You have not shown an understanding of it. In fact most of the folks that love supply side eco fail to realize that they are just talking about one sector of the tax base. If you cut the tax rate on everyone and the raise the gas tax , you have lowered a progressive tax and raised a regressive one. Without factoring in all taxes you wind up with a false causation.That is where you ss fail.

Now if you do that when world oil prices drop to a historical low , you can get away with that. This country kicks ass when the price of oil is low. There was not a global demand like there is today. We do not have the same influnce in the region because they can turn around and sell to China or India.

Anyway, learn that what worked before may have nothing to do with a solution today. Laffer understands that, that is why he said wtf he said about Clinton and because you do not understand the Laffer Curve, that is why you do noyt understand why he could say that.