George W Bush: Was he really that bad?

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

I think Barry Goldwater would have attacked another nation preemptively if they represented a definitive threat to our existence......I don't think Obama would....and we know the left would be A-OK with that....

We know LBJ thought Goldwater would......

You think...

No Barry Goldwater, like me would have nuked a country once we were at war with them, something I suggested should have been done in Bora Bora when we had Osama cornered. There is a difference between preemptive war and once you're at war , going all in.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

A "True Conservative" would NEVER let America be first attacked or otherwise annihilated by the enemy; a "True Conservative" would have no qualms with preemptive war.

.

So a "True Conservative" would have no problem with abortion on the grounds that you are killing a potential murderer? That is basically your argument you know. We think this country is going to harm us , therefore we will annihilate them. You think that is a conservative principal?

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

A "True Conservative" would NEVER let America be first attacked or otherwise annihilated by the enemy; a "True Conservative" would have no qualms with preemptive war.

Where the fuck do you get your ideas about what a "true" conservative would do?

Do you think that means whatever YOU would do?

I don't know of a single "true" conservative that would support preemptive war - not Buckley, not Kirk, not Hayek. None.

Now, reactionary rednecks? That's a different story...

[KCJoe]

Originally Posted by WTF

You think...

No Barry Goldwater, like me would have nuked a country once we were at war with them, something I suggested should have been done in Bora Bora when we had Osama cornered. There is a difference between preemptive war and once you're at war , going all in.

I think you mean Tora Bora. I always wanted to visit Bora Bora, hate to see it get nuked before I get a chance to swim in those clear blue waters.

[Whirlaway]

That was WTFs phrase; I put it in quotes because I really don't know what WTF means by TC,,,but if he has a definition...

Are you saying Barry Goldwater (a "true" conservative) would sit on his hands and let America be attacked so he could avoid the "preemptive war" label?

What the fuck are you thinking?

Originally Posted by ExNYer

Where the fuck do you get your ideas about what a "true" conservative would do?

Do you think that means whatever YOU would do?

I don't know of a single "true" conservative that would support preemptive war - not Buckley, not Kirk, not Hayek. None.

Now, reactionary rednecks? That's a different story...

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

That was WTFs phrase; I put it in quotes because I really don't know what WTF means by TC,,,but if he has a definition...

Are you saying Barry Goldwater (a "true" conservative) would sit on his hands and let America be attacked so he could avoid the "preemptive war" label?

What the fuck are you thinking?

true conservatives don't start wars because they THINK some pissant country MIGHT start some shit ..

[Whirlaway]

WTF used the term "never".........never means never....so WTF and ExNYer are in the camp with whomever, who would sit on their hands and avoid a preemptive attack, even if it means being annihilated by another country........because a true conservative would NEVER start such a preemptive war.....idiots....a true conservative like Goldwater would act preemptively, especially if survival of the nation was in question !

idiots.

Originally Posted by WTF

A true Conservative would never start a preemptive war and a true conservative would never support one!

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

WTF used the term "never".........never means never....so WTF and ExNYer are in the camp with whomever, who would sit on their hands and avoid a preemptive attack, even if it means being annihilated by another country........because a true conservative would NEVER start such a preemptive war.....idiots....a true conservative like Goldwater would act preemptively, especially if survival of the nation was in question !

You are raising an imaginary scenario - not unlike the ticking time bomb scenario - in which a nation KNOWS for certain that it is going to be attacked.

Pray tell - how exactly can you ever KNOW for certain that another country is going to attack you?

If their ships and aircraft are heading towards the US and you contact them to turn back, AND THEY REFUSE, then you have a good argument for shooting down the aircraft or sinking the ships when they violate your airspace/territorial waters. But then, it's not pre-emptive is it?

Short of that, when will you strike first?

North Korea seems pretty belligerent right now. Do you think Saint Barry of Goldwater would just pre-emptively bomb them because they might hit our troops in Seoul or Japan? They have moved around rocket launchers and fueled up their rockets. Is that enough cause to hit them?

Is that the conservative position? Is that what YOU would do? Would we already be at war with NK if you were president?

Idiot.

[CJ7]

whirlie wouldn't know a true conservative if one bitch slapped him

[Whirlaway]

What is it about NEVER do you not understand ?


Now you are the one laying out all kinds of whats and if....

Either you believe a TC would NEVER preemptively defend the US or not; which is it?

BTW, to get to the answer is simple. It doesn't require twisted logic and what ifs...............

I will help you out; of course a TC would preemptively wage war in defense of the nation, especially if it meant survival of the nation, and doing nothing would be annihilation. I am not so certain that a liberal would....

Originally Posted by ExNYer

You are raising an imaginary scenario - not unlike the ticking time bomb scenario - in which a nation KNOWS for certain that it is going to be attacked.

Pray tell - how exactly can you ever KNOW for certain that another country is going to attack you?

If their ships and aircraft are heading towards the US and you contact them to turn back, AND THEY REFUSE, then you have a good argument for shooting down the aircraft or sinking the ships when they violate your airspace/territorial waters. But then, it's not pre-emptive is it?

Short of that, when will you strike first?

North Korea seems pretty belligerent right now. Do you think Saint Barry of Goldwater would just pre-emptively bomb them because they might hit our troops in Seoul or Japan? They have moved around rocket launchers and fueled up their rockets. Is that enough cause to hit them?

Is that the conservative position? Is that what YOU would do? Would we already be at war with NK if you were president?

Idiot.

[JD Barleycorn]

Stereotypical, bigoted behavior and thoughts about what a conservative is by people with no idea. Think about a replacement; what if everything a redneck thought about black people was considered to be true? So we know who our resident bigots are now. I wonder if there is a term for a liberal redneck................maybe it's FuckZup.

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Stereotypical, bigoted behavior and thoughts about what a conservative is by people with no idea. Think about a replacement; what if everything a redneck thought about black people was considered to be true? So we know who our resident bigots are now. I wonder if there is a term for a liberal redneck................maybe it's FuckZup.

You keep squealing about liberals and racism.

Squeal, squeal, squeal. Just like the (forbidden topic) that (forbidden topic) when you (forbidden topic) on your (forbidden topic.)

You really haven't a clue have you... you unblack ignorant piece of shit. Sorry. Make that (forbidden topic) piece of (forbidden topic) shit.

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

What is it about NEVER do you not understand ?

Nothing. I understand it SO completely that I can say with confidence that the imaginary 'about to be attacked" scenario you envision will NEVER occur.

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Now you are the one laying out all kinds of whats and if....

No, I'm not. I laid out ONE "if" involving an enemy fleet invading our territorial waters. In that case, we can fire before they do, but it is not pre-emptive since they have already violated our territory.

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

I will help you out; of course a TC would preemptively wage war in defense of the nation, especially if it meant survival of the nation, and doing nothing would be annihilation.

Describe the scenario where this would occur.

I also asked you point-blank questions about what Barry Goldwater would do about North Korea and what YOU would do about NK. You didn't answer either of them.

So I will ask you again:

If you were president, would you already have attacked NK? If not, why not? What more would they have to do to get you to attack them?

[CJ7]

If you were president, would you already have attacked NK? If not, why not? What more would they have to do to get you to attack them?[/QUOTE]

[Whirlaway]

So your definition of NEVER is what exactly ?

I can assure you that a TC (like Goldwater) would act preemptively if whatever you think can never happen, did happen.

My definition of Never has to include all scenarios; all probabilities, even those with near zero chance.....but for your thinking to prevail, you have to twist like a pretzel and eliminate scenarios those scenarios...i get it....it is a dishonest distortion of the definition of NEVER, but i get what you are trying to do..it isn't clever, it is just dishonest. A way to distort the definition of NEVER to fit your rationalization.

No need to respond. We just disagree on what the definition of NEVER is.