Obama admits he applied for the wrong job.

[Iaintliein]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

If you could read, I excluded people who commit felonies, such as armed robbers, drug dealers, embezzlers, terrorists. So don't try and take my post and give it a twist that isn't there.

And as far as PJ is concerned, his post occurred in the contest of undocumented workers in Texas (see TTH's post immediately preceding). The obvious reference is to Mexicans both in TTH's post and PJ's. IDT you could fairly assume they were talking about undocumented workers from India.

So, please read (and understand) before you post.

Pretty snarky for a guy who obviously CHOSE to ignore the fact that I not only read and understood but also ridiculed your post. Your "exclusion" is a very flimsy attempt to protect the central fallacy of your primary argument.

All crimes are committed by those who want a "better life" for themselves and /or their families. Your exclusion only magnifies the weakness of your central premise.

Hell, we hobby because we want "a better life" because life with sex is better than life without it. The ladies hobby because they "want a better life".

Nice try and a pretty thinly veiled ad hominem. But no cigar.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

Since you later try to justify such a position saying that you excluded felony acts, can we assume that 1) a misdomeanor act of crime, that is in an effort to better one's self, is Ok with you?...and 2) since a repeat offense of illegal immigration is a felony, that you hold those repeat offenders in disdain?

Finally, your efforts to turn this into a race issue fall well short. I can tell you that most of us that are against illegal immigration here in the US, are against it for all races, creeds, nationalities and colors. But just because a guy who got bitten by a thousand fire ants exclaims "G Damn Fire Ants"...does not mean that he is not opposed to red ant bites too. It's a BS diversion...and you know it.

I specifically said felonies for a reason. I wanted to include most felony crimes against persons/property as being contemptible. It was not my intent to include DWI, gambling, traffic offenses, solicitation or prostitution (mostly so called "victimless crimes") and which are mostly misdemeanors (and which some of us have committed and been convicted of in the past), in that list.

And yes, a repeat offense is a felony, and should be enforced in line with my original post:

Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

• Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
• Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
• Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;

has committed a federal crime.

Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense.

But let's follow the statute. And criminal procedure as set out by the Consitution. Just for kicks.

You may think that your bias is discrimination neutral, but that is merely a pretext. The vast majority of undocumenteds here are from Mexico, or from Latin America. In the context of Texas (which was the original context) it was most certainly a reference to Latin American people who are undocumented.

Originally Posted by Iaintliein

Pretty snarky for a guy who obviously CHOSE to ignore the fact that I not only read and understood but also ridiculed your post. Your "exclusion" is a very flimsy attempt to protect the central fallacy of your primary argument.

All crimes are committed by those who want a "better life" for themselves and /or their families. Your exclusion only magnifies the weakness of your central premise.

Hell, we hobby because we want "a better life" because life with sex is better than life without it. The ladies hobby because they "want a better life".

Nice try and a pretty thinly veiled ad hominem. But no cigar.

I call BS. You didn't understand. As I've said here before, I would be harder than current govt on undocumenteds that commit felonies. Instead of prosecuting them, sentencing them, sending them to prison here, with 3 squares and a roof, I'd send them back to their country of origin. It would cut out the cost.

All crimes are committed by those who want a "better life" for themselves and /or their families.

And what does that sentence mean. Are you saying that the only crimes that are committed in the whole US are committed by those who want a better life? That is a fair reading of that sentence. If you meant something else, you need to expound, b/c it is a nonsensical sentence.

[Iaintliein]

Nevermind, you appear to be too slow to waste time on. Go off and live in your self proclaimed fantasy.

I will suffer you no more.

[pjorourke]

You mean you "don't suffer fools gladly"?

[charlestudor2005]

[**Noting that no gauntlet was picked up.**]

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

You may think that your bias is discrimination neutral, but that is merely a pretext. The vast majority of undocumenteds here are from Mexico, or from Latin America. In the context of Texas (which was the original context) it was most certainly a reference to Latin American people who are undocumented.

Well, that's kind of a No Duh. But that does not mean it is discriminatory. By you own admission, this was mostly about Texas, and that's where most of the illegals come from down here. So if you're going to fix the "illegal alien" problem here in Texas, it just stands to reason that there are going to be a lot of south of the border folks effected.

If you have a busted water pipe you can, of course, spend all your time talking about how to fix the dripping faucet too. But the kitchen is still gonna fill up until you fix the busted pipe.

Tell us, with all of your wisom...How to fix the illiegal alien problem here in Texas without effecting a lot of hispanics. You try and make the argument about motivation...which is only your view of our motivation. And you haven't got a clue as to mine...actually I could delete "as to mine".

Stopping the flow of illegal aliens would most defintely hurt my businesses...because things are lower cost as a result of their being around. But I still think it is in the best interest of the US and Texas. And Yep, I'd fix the busted pipe first.

[charlestudor2005]

I'm guessing you'd be against a comprehensive Guest Worker program, then...just to be clear.

[pjorourke]

I'd be very much in favor of a GWP. Your buddies in organized labor are the one against it. And also more realistic quota and more intelligent quotas (e.g., anyone here legally like on a visa and graduating from a 4-year college, gets fast-tracked to citizenship.)

I am a big fan of legal immigration.

[Guest032213-02]

He wished he didn't apply for the job of being Fox News' whipping boy?

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

I'm guessing you'd be against a comprehensive Guest Worker program, then...just to be clear.

Quite the contrary. I would be very much in favor of a program for a legal method for non-citizens to work here. You start guessing CT...instead of just asking...and it gets you in trouble.

I am far from against the hispanic individual. The ones who want to work here (generally) have good family values, they work extremely hard, they want to assimilate in this country and they are generally thankful for the opportunity. I'm not sure what more you can ask for from an individual.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

I am far from against the hispanic individual. The ones who want to work here (generally) have good family values, they work extremely hard, they want to assimilate in this country and they are generally thankful for the opportunity. I'm not sure what more you can ask for from an individual.

Agreed. As long as their is a permanent forfeiture of citizenship track or citizenship upon the conviction of certain enumerated felonies. It needs to be a real prize and not illusory.

So, why don't we have it already? Seems like a win-win solution.

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

So, why don't we have it already? Seems like a win-win solution.

Two words: Organized Labor

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

I'm guessing you'd be against a comprehensive Guest Worker program, then...just to be clear.

Originally Posted by pjorourke

I'd be very much in favor of a GWP. Your buddies in organized labor are the one against it. And also more realistic quota and more intelligent quotas (e.g., anyone here legally like on a visa and graduating from a 4-year college, gets fast-tracked to citizenship.)

I am a big fan of legal immigration.

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

Quite the contrary. I would be very much in favor of a program for a legal method for non-citizens to work here. You start guessing CT...instead of just asking...and it gets you in trouble.

I am far from against the hispanic individual. The ones who want to work here (generally) have good family values, they work extremely hard, they want to assimilate in this country and they are generally thankful for the opportunity. I'm not sure what more you can ask for from an individual.

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

Well, that's kind of a No Duh. But that does not mean it is discriminatory. By you own admission, this was mostly about Texas, and that's where most of the illegals come from down here. So if you're going to fix the "illegal alien" problem here in Texas, it just stands to reason that there are going to be a lot of south of the border folks effected.

If you have a busted water pipe you can, of course, spend all your time talking about how to fix the dripping faucet too. But the kitchen is still gonna fill up until you fix the busted pipe.

Tell us, with all of your wisom...How to fix the illiegal alien problem here in Texas without effecting a lot of hispanics. You try and make the argument about motivation...which is only your view of our motivation. And you haven't got a clue as to mine...actually I could delete "as to mine".

Stopping the flow of illegal aliens would most defintely hurt my businesses...because things are lower cost as a result of their being around. But I still think it is in the best interest of the US and Texas. And Yep, I'd fix the busted pipe first.

I'm definately all for a GWP, but one that doesn't reward those that broke the law and came in illegally. They go to the back of the line.

I think we need too move past the "if" or "why" and move to "how." The reality is illegals comprise an important part of our workforce. We can't just round 'em up and send them back without a plan. The status quo is unacceptable as well.

It is amazing how this issue, like NAFTA, makes for strange bedfellows. The liberal unions in bed with the conservative America First protectionist crowd.

And Chuckles, the reason the Texans are talking about Mexicans isn't an issue of race but geography. Our friends in the Northeast, for example, have a much more diverse set of illegals...

[pjorourke]

http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?t=195493

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

Quite the contrary. I would be very much in favor of a program for a legal method for non-citizens to work here. You start guessing CT...instead of just asking...and it gets you in trouble.

I am far from against the hispanic individual. The ones who want to work here (generally) have good family values, they work extremely hard, they want to assimilate in this country and they are generally thankful for the opportunity. I'm not sure what more you can ask for from an individual.

Maybe a good blow job