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Cherie · 02-23-2015, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

The difference is I'm not running, nor do I hold a position of trust in government. When I have a fiduciary duty to tell the truth, and I have held those positions, I have never lied. Our leaders have a fiduciary duty to tell the truth. If they don't, we don't have a representative government. It's impossible. If they lie to us, we have no idea what they will actually, nor can we be sure of what they are doing. We are left in the dark, which makes our government no better than the old style Soviet Politburo.

Question: Why are you defending lying by our leaders to the American public?

+1000
Exceptional reply
Thank you

UnderConstruction · 02-23-2015, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

The difference is I'm not running, nor do I hold a position of trust in government. When I have a fiduciary duty to tell the truth, and I have held those positions, I have never lied. Our leaders have a fiduciary duty to tell the truth. If they don't, we don't have a representative government. It's impossible. If they lie to us, we have no idea what they will actually, nor can we be sure of what they are doing. We are left in the dark, which makes our government no better than the old style Soviet Politburo.

Question: Why are you defending lying by our leaders to the American public?

No leader we've ever had has been immune to lying. By your measurement, we've never had a representative government. When, in the course of our country, have we ever been sure of what our government is doing? We have always been in the dark, that's the way they like it. We waste our time bickering amongst each other while they're busy moving in the shadows. Always been that way.

CuteOldGuy · 02-23-2015, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderConstruction

No leader we've ever had has been immune to lying. By your measurement, we've never had a representative government. When, in the course of our country, have we ever been sure of what our government is doing? We have always been in the dark, that's the way they like it. We waste our time bickering amongst each other while they're busy moving in the shadows. Always been that way.

That doesn't mean it has to stay that way, and I have never defended the practice. Why is it controversial to demand honesty from our leaders? Still, it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a representative government when we elect and reward liars. That's simply a fact.

Again, why is it OK for our leaders to lie to us?

UnderConstruction · 02-23-2015, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

That doesn't mean it has to stay that way, and I have never defended the practice. Why is it controversial to demand honesty from our leaders? Still, it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a representative government when we elect and reward liars. That's simply a fact.

Again, why is it OK for our leaders to lie to us?

I never said it was ok. And of course it doesn't have to stay that way. I simply stated that's the way it's always been. You want to know what I think would put a dent in it? Term limits. The problem we have is that people go up there, get rich and never want to leave. They are beholden to special interests (both parties) and it's a cushy gig. They're constantly in election mode now and are afraid to take a stance on anything because they're afraid it will cost them votes, so in turn, nothing gets done.

CuteOldGuy · 02-23-2015, 02:56 PM

Of course you said it was OK. You defend the lies all the time. You're part of the problem.

WTF · 02-23-2015, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

That doesn't mean it has to stay that way, and I have never defended the practice. Why is it controversial to demand honesty from our leaders? Still, it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a representative government when we elect and reward liars. That's simply a fact.

Again, why is it OK for our leaders to lie to us?

Maybe we do not nor have we ever had by your standard a representative government.

So we have the next best thing...One that over looks their own party lies and shines a bright light on the oppositions'.

UnderConstruction · 02-23-2015, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Of course you said it was OK. You defend the lies all the time. You're part of the problem.

If you ever defended Bush, you've defended lies as well. What's your point? And I never said it was ok. You're problem is you're a victim of binary thought. If it isn't this, it must be that. It's a common problem among mouthbreathers. I can recognize the wrongs we have done in the past and still love this country. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

i'va biggen · 02-23-2015, 05:11 PM

I will have to say COG alias "dull knife" has not defended Bush 2...

IIFFOFRDB · 02-23-2015, 05:11 PM

UnderConstruction · 02-23-2015, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IIFFOFRDB

Real original.

i'va biggen · 02-23-2015, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IIFFOFRDB

Thanks for your selfie whiffy.

Jackie S · 02-23-2015, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IIFFOFRDB

That nails it. Perfect.

He's SOOOOOOO cool.

CuteOldGuy · 02-24-2015, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderConstruction

If you ever defended Bush, you've defended lies as well. What's your point? And I never said it was ok. You're problem is you're a victim of binary thought. If it isn't this, it must be that. It's a common problem among mouthbreathers. I can recognize the wrongs we have done in the past and still love this country. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

I have never defended W. I will speak up for them if I think they are being treated unfairly, as I have for Obama, Kerry and others. But I do not ignore or minimize their lies, and I do not vote for them. While I lean Libertarian on most issues, I would vote for a communist if I knew he/she was telling the truth. Truth trumps even ideology. The last major party politician I felt was honest was George McGovern. I supported him to the hilt. And he was creamed by that lying bastard Nixon. I don't think we've had a candidate for President since that was worth voting for. None have even tried to appear honest, except Jimmy Carter. I didn't believe him, and I was right. I was very tempted by Obama. He made some terrific promises, but I just couldn't pull the lever for him. I was right, again.

sirliamscross · 02-24-2015, 02:50 PM

The only thing I've learned from this thread is that stupidity isn't limited to one side or the other. And historal context can be absolutely raped for the sake of a "gotcha" post.

People who insist on calling each other names and hating because of one anothers political beliefs are just turds.

Truth is: reality is nuanced. Not nearly as simplistic as the "us vs. them" bullshit you see on TV. But simple sells. Americans change the channel on political discourse that rises to any level past "Obama bad!" or "Koch brothers evil!"

Yuck.

UnderConstruction · 02-24-2015, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirliamscross

The only thing I've learned from this thread is that stupidity isn't limited to one side or the other. And historal context can be absolutely raped for the sake of a "gotcha" post.

People who insist on calling each other names and hating because of one anothers political beliefs are just turds.

Truth is: reality is nuanced. Not nearly as simplistic as the "us vs. them" bullshit you see on TV. But simple sells. Americans change the channel on political discourse that rises to any level past "Obama bad!" or "Koch brothers evil!"

Yuck.

I tried telling them it was nuanced. If you say one thing they automatically assume it must be the other. They're victims of binary thought. It's either this or that with them. No in between. Fox sells lies to the simple minded.